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A conundrum of sorts...

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Jay M., Oct 2, 2005.

  1. Jay M.

    Jay M. Yellow Belt

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    I am in the process of increasing my strength via weight training. However, I really need to lose the spare tire around the middle and increase my stamina because I get gassed fairly quickly. I am on a modified Westside template right now and doing light cardio 2x per week on my off days because my legs really hurt if I run too hard after Monday ME leg day.

    My question is: Are the two mutually exclusive or can you actually do both at the same time? I've read that strength decreases or at least can decrease with weight loss especially when both goals are attempted at the same time.

    Has anyone here done both at the same time? If so, how?
     
  2. Todd Gack

    Todd Gack Dutch

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    It's difficult but it is possible to increase your strength while shedding some pounds. Focus on your caloric intake to drop pounds but keep lifting as usual to increase your strength. The only thing you may have to worry about is your training volume. When I cut weight I still lift for strength but I can't handle the same volume that I use when I'm eating regularly!
     
  3. Jay M.

    Jay M. Yellow Belt

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    Thanks for the reply. That was one of my main concerns as Westside is very strict in some ways about volume. I may just modify the template to one I was thinking about using anyway. It would combine Westside and Dinosaur Training but with low volume.

    Again, thanks for the advice.
     
  4. graedy

    graedy Brown Belt

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    A friend of mine dropped over 20 kilos while increasing his strength from being able to do about 5 push ups 0 chin ups to a 100 kg bench, 160 kilo Deadlift, 40 push ups and 8 chin ups in 7 months.
    He is also a vegetarian and eats very unregulary.
    I know everybody is different but as long, as you workout regulary in an intelligent way, you can reach both.
    Btw.: the increased musclemass will up the amount of calories your body burns while doing nothing. This effect can have a big impact.
     
  5. Jay M.

    Jay M. Yellow Belt

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    Cool. Stories like that are always inspiring. Right now I'm 6' 2" 245 but about 20% BF most of it being around the middle. I plan on trying to stay big but get in good fighting shape too. I really appreciate the interest and advice.
     
  6. Todd Gack

    Todd Gack Dutch

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    Are you a competetive fighter? If yes, will you fight at heavyweight? This may sound weird but I think if you focus on your performance goals only, your body will come into place on it's own. Work on getting strong and upping your conditioning/stamina and I'm sure that spare tire will be gone.
     
  7. Jay M.

    Jay M. Yellow Belt

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    One thing I was wondering about is if people like Carnal and the other big guys in here maintain all that mass and strength and can still run up a flight of stairs without puking their guts up? Just wondered if there seems to be a limit to how much mass you can carry and still remain in good fighting shape.

    Btw, I'm not implying that Carnal or anyone else is out of shape; I just wondered if being that huge means that they get winded easier.
     
  8. Jay M.

    Jay M. Yellow Belt

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    Ah, I think I understand. If I get into the shape I need to be to do what I want to do, my body will dictate my actual size. Like Hughes competes at 170 but he could probably up his mass if he wanted but he might not be the p4p guy he is now.
     
  9. Todd Gack

    Todd Gack Dutch

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    I was in REALLY good condition earlier this year training for a Police fitness test and I was still walking around at about 180-185 at 5'6"-5'7" tall. When I was around 205 a few years ago I was in worse shape but I was neglecting my conditioning a lot. I think you can add mass and still stay in great cardiovascular shape just as long as your training correctly.
     
  10. Todd Gack

    Todd Gack Dutch

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    Yeah, just train for performance which in your case is fighting and your body will follow. Don't worry TOO much about body composition UNLESS you need to make a particular weight class.
     
  11. Jay M.

    Jay M. Yellow Belt

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    Very cool. That is why I joined this board. I like being able to bounce ideas off of people and get bounced on my head when I'm being a dumbass. :) I'm going to revamp my workout today and see how it goes.

    By the way, I know that this is the strength/power thread but since this thread is concerned with both what cardio do you guys find to be the best for fighting stamina while maintaining or even increasing strength?
     
  12. Diligent

    Diligent Blue Belt

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    I've done both, but when doing both, you can only lose so much weight and still be 'healthy', y'know?... They are NOT mutually exclusive...that is, to a certain extent. You CAN do both, but eventually, if you really are training hard, you'll hit a 'peak', an ideal weight w/ a low percentage of body fat, in which when you hit that low weight/body fat %, you can only go up in weight from there if you are lifting heavy.

    As for losing the spare tire and increasing stamina, 2X a week cardio ain't gonna hack it...at least to my standards.... Losing the spare tire is going to come down something amazingly simple...yes, you guessed it, diet AND exercise. Many times, people lack one or the other: some start eating right, but then they don't exercise properly, which can only take you so far; then, there are those who work out like mad dogs, but then eat like gluttons, basically defeating the purpose (unless you just naturally have a great metabolism or don't care about losing weight)....

    I would suggest doing cardio like 4 to 5 times a week. It doesn't have to be some intense session or anything...and you don't have to run, btw. Running, esp. hard running, can be pretty hard on your joints/muscles when working out like you are with Westside. Just get on a stationary bike or eliptical machine that is much easier on your joints and try to get in a good 30-45 minutes 4-5 times a week. Then, try to couple that with a reasonable diet of more (5-6) smaller meals a day rather than 3 big ones. (and remember, it's not like you can't have a frickin' cookie or something every day or two, just try to keep things in moderation; you can have a dessert every now n' then, just do it in moderation: don't have second servings, giant first servings, etc.). It's not rocket science to know what foods you should and shouldn't be eating if you are trying to lose that belly. Diet and exercise, with some regiment and self control, dude, and you should see results pretty quickly. I know I did.:)
     
  13. Todd Gack

    Todd Gack Dutch

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    You'd probably get some better responses in the Conditioning forum. In my opinion though, a mix of different conditioning/cardio drills work best. I prefer running but I always vary the distances and intensities of my runs. I may run an easy 5 km one day, a hard 1.5 mile run another day and some intervals on another etc. I also incorporate hill runs and burpess for conditioning as well. In fact, I credit burpees for my performance in the Police obstacle course I had to do in June.
     
  14. Jay M.

    Jay M. Yellow Belt

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    Thanks all. I'll keep you posted.
     
  15. wenispinkle

    wenispinkle Skankin' It Easy...

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  16. Jay M.

    Jay M. Yellow Belt

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    That's a really good article. Placing these complexes at the end of my DE days makes good sense too. Thanks a ton. I hate running so this should definitely help with that. :D I'll let you guys know if I'm puking by the end of the workout. :icon_cry2 :wink:
     
  17. Jay M.

    Jay M. Yellow Belt

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    Lol, I like that idea but I'm starting to get winded when chasing the kids around the yard. I gotta do something about that.
     
  18. Jay M.

    Jay M. Yellow Belt

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    I'm gonna try the weight complexes that Alwyn Cosgrove just posted on elitefts.com. This seems to be the fix I need without always running.
     
  19. wasptrash

    wasptrash cynical swine

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    I'd really try to find a different form of cardio if you're trying to get stronger at the same time. Running is a high impact activity and therefore tends to be detrimental to your leg strength. Be cautious as well when you hear of certain individuals that got so much stronger while losing weight. They tend to be novices and completely out of shape to start, so they will advance quickly in all areas of fitness simultaneously without much thought or effort. A more advanced athlete will find it very difficult to make simultaneous advancements in areas of fitness at opposite ends of the spectrum (strength and cardio)
     
  20. graedy

    graedy Brown Belt

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    Thats true. My friend was a complete novice. He didnt want to do any cardio. So i said:"Ok, lets increase your LBM with heavy lifting, replace coke with water, dont always eat the whole cookie package (instead eat one or two) and see how far we can get." Today he can still keep his weight without exercising at all for some time. I think thats becasue of the increased metabolism.
     

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