A Brazilian fighter calling himself "Spartan"

[MadSquabbles500]

Maybe this guy really likes Halo, and is a huge fan of the Master Chief.

 

[MicroBrew]

Pretty sure that's wrong...

Why would it be? Minoans were the 1st civilization in the Greek isles and they were taken over by the Mycenaens and later the Greeks took over the Mycenaens. Neither the Mycenaes nor Greeks had an established civilization prior to colonizing Greece. So why is it not reasonable that the more advanced Minoans imputed their intellectucal acumen onto the Mycenaens , and the Greeks conquered the Mycenaens .

Indo-European tribes are well known for conquering and taking over the advanced civilizations in the Near East and Indian SubContinent.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

After the Persians retired the bulk of their army to attend more pressing matters in the heart of their empire.

Persians were better in open plains, greeks were better in their rugged terrain, until Macedonia of course.

Persians were good because of their archers and cavalry.

Their infantry was a bunch of cans. Check out the battle of Marathon.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Hell me and my three siblings are 1/2 Irish, 5/8 English, 1/16 Scottish and 1/16 German and all three but me inherited the German looks (blonde and brown übermensch) whereas I look half Irish half English like my genetics would suggest. They are less than 10 percent German yet those are the dominant genes they got when it comes to appearance. Obviously then some Greeks will look Turk.

lol that gave me a headache.

 

[lfd0311]

It's a well known fact that it isn't culturally appropriate to call yourself a Spartan unless you're from Michigan.... Stupid thread is stupid...

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Let me ask you: supposing it wasn't the Greeks but the Hebrew or Berbers or Chaldeans or Persians who had layed the foundation for Western philosophy and science, would you claim them as the same race?

Actually, the first ever recorded debate about which political regime is the best is not attributable to classical Greece, but to Persia.

Darius takes power from the Medes after convincing the Persians in such a debate. They were debating which one is best : democracy vs. oligarchy vs. monarchy.

Darius convinced the Persians that monarchy is the best regime and becomes Persia's great king.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

ah, cultural appropriation, good times. I remember when my HS near Seattle had to change mascots, from Chiefs. We had no literal mascot, simply the FSU arrowhead symbol on our jerseys. Apparently, even that was too disrespectful to the local Tulalip tribe....

Then my college, SDSU, had to remove it's mascot Monty Montezuma as he wasn't 'historically accurate' or some bullshit. Ya, i'm sure all the Aztecs still alive are really offended. Oh wait

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Oh and about the Greek "purity", as always, Sherdog gives me headaches when it comes to discussions about lineage.

Even ancient Greeks are a hybrid nation.

Laconians (Dorians) were not the same people as Eolians, for example. You also had the Pelasge, who were pre-Greek people. Phoenician settlements as far as the Athens region.

Entire city-states that were deported, or left an area to colonise another, that blended with the local population, then got deported again 100 years later.

This type of shit. Ancient Greece was already extremely fragmented, diverse and complicated.

 

[Rod1]

Persians were good because of their archers and cavalry.

Their infantry was a bunch of cans. Check out the battle of Marathon.

They werent a bunch of cans they were just inferior to a phalanx in head to head combat, the greeks at the time were used to infantry clashes due to their limited cavalry and other auxiliary troops.

Thats like saying "Greek infantry were cans. Check out any battle where they were flanked." It was not until Philip II that the greeks managed to beat the persians in their own turf.

 

[Rod1]

lol tell us more about these "Minoans" and how the Greeks civilisation was ripped from them..

Fact is classical Greece was 1000 years after the estimated collapse of the Minoan civilisation. There is no evidence of an intellectual continuity between the cultures. In fact it seems the Minoans had an even more advanced civilisation than even classical Greece at it's height (plumbing more than a 1000 years before Christ). Yet we know really nothing about it.

Hell, we only call it "Minoan" because the Greeks had myths about it being the land of Minos, son of Zeus, who was the first king of Crete and owner of both labyrinths and minotaurs. Not really a very apt description of a culture they apparently appropriated...

Fact is modern western society is based on Classical Greek philosophical concepts because "retro classicalism" was all the rage in early modern Western Europe. (Fall of Constantinople brought many forgotten classical texts to Western European via fleeing Byzantines).

The way modern society is organised in the west is a direct rip from classical history. We have no evidence of classical Greeks rediscovering "Minoan" culture and doing the equivalent. At best It seems the classical Greeks saw some ruins and fantasied about mazes and monsters.
"Bulls right... Those Minoans liked bulls. They had a bull monster! Thesus killed It. Yes.. It's all coming together".

Actually western society is based on Roman customs and laws, greek culture reached out days on the back of Roman civism.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

They werent a bunch of cans they were just inferior to a phalanx in head to head combat, the greeks at the time were used to infantry clashes due to their limited cavalry and other auxiliary troops.

Thats like saying "Greek infantry were cans. Check out any battle where they were flanked." It was not until Philip II that the greeks managed to beat the persians in their own turf.

Wrong. The Persian fantassins were poorly armored. They didn't even speak the same language. Un-coordinated. They shat themselves as soon as the Greeks charged them, while they vastly outnumbered the Greeks.

You can t say that infantry is poor for being owned by cavalry or archers. But you can measure the value of an infantry against another infantry.

 

[Rod1]

Wrong. The Persian fantassins were poorly armored. They didn't even speak the same language. Un-coordinated. They shat themselves as soon as the Greeks charged them, while they vastly outnumbered the Greeks.

You can t say that infantry is poor for being owned by cavalry or archers. But you can measure the value of an infantry against another infantry.

No, you cant. Warfare is extremely specific, armies are used to fighting in certain conditions and in such conditions like marathon (where no cavalry was present) the greek shield wall proved far superior to the persian infantry.

Change the venue and its not as clear cut, and Persian infantry were comprised of different levels of professionalism, the persian sparabara were more than capable to hold the line against other comparable infantry, the greek shield wall however has far more pushing power due to all their ranks being comprised of shield walls pushing each other, while the sparabara ranks were thin and not used to pushing but defending.

Marathon was won because the persians didnt field their cavalry otherwise the greek tactics would had been utterly useless.

You dont get to create such a vast empire during that age with military mediocrity.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

No, you cant. Warfare is extremely specific, armies are used to fighting in certain conditions and in such conditions like marathon (where no cavalry was present) the greek shield wall proved far superior to the persian infantry.

Change the venue and its not as clear cut, and Persian infantry were comprised of different levels of professionalism, the persian sparabara were more than capable to hold the line against other comparable infantry, the greek shield wall however has far more pushing power due to all their ranks being comprised of shield walls pushing each other, while the sparabara ranks were thin and not used to pushing but defending.

Marathon was won because the persians didnt field their cavalry otherwise the greek tactics would had been utterly useless.

You dont get to create such a vast empire during that age with military mediocrity.

I ve said this in another thread but I agree : the Greek strategy was extremely risky and bold (maybe even foolish).

Historians disagree as to where the hell the Persian cavalry was in the battle of Marathon.

In any case I never said that the Persians had a poor military. Just that they had a poor infantry.

And I still claim that infantry vs infantry is a good way to judge the value of an infantry.

 

[Rod1]

I ve said this in another thread but I agree : the Greek strategy was extremely risky and bold (maybe even foolish).

Historians disagree as to where the hell the Persian cavalry was in the battle of Marathon.

In any case I never said that the Persians had a poor military. Just that they had a poor infantry.

And I still claim that infantry vs infantry is a good way to judge the value of an infantry.

One infantry is designed to fight only infantry at head on charges, the other infantry is used to hold position and shoot arrows at the enemy.

Of course the greeks would win pretty much all infantry vs infantry engagements. That doesnt makes greek infantry better than it would make an air superiority fighter better than a bomber.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Speaking about cultural appropriations and Greeks, it does not get much worse than this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_naming_dispute

Greeks don't like Macedonian using that name. it cause much confusion. Lots of people actually think Alexander the Great of Macedonia is not greek but some Illyrian or slav or northern barbarian. Including a lot of history teachers. One being my high school teacher, who is Italian and crazy about the Roman Empire and the whole Greco roman world of antiquity.

 

[optimistas]

Speaking about cultural appropriations and Greeks, it does not get much worse than this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_naming_dispute

Greeks don't like Macedonian using that name. it cause much confusion. Lots of people actually think Alexander the Great of Macedonia is not greek but some Illyrian or slav or northern barbarian. Including a lot of history teachers. One being my high school teacher, who is Italian and crazy about the Roman Empire and the whole Greco roman world of antiquity.

this debate can go for ever. what we learned in school ,i'm from greece, back in 70s is that macedonians were just another part of greeks ,like spartans ,athenians,coriinthians etc. also the name "hellines"/greek first mentioned in the homer's books back to 8 century b.c. meaning the whole of ionians,eolians,achaians and dorieis.the citizens of most cities-states of anc.greece where of the same origin.spartans where dorieis,athenian achaians and them from minor asia's cities were ionian.(the word for greek in turkish language is "yunan").that played a big role in the alliances that where formed in the civil/peloponessian war in the end of 4th century.only the threat of persians unified them just for a little. minoans and their language dissapeared when dorieis invade creta.

 

[Hyperglide]

There was an MMA fighter called Warmachine too. They pick stupid names. They aren't exactly scholars here either.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

this debate can go for ever. what we learned in school ,i'm from greece, back in 70s is that macedonians were just another part of greeks ,like spartans ,athenians,coriinthians etc. also the name "hellines"/greek first mentioned in the homer's books back to 8 century b.c. meaning the whole of ionians,eolians,achaians and dorieis.the citizens of most cities-states of anc.greece where of the same origin.spartans where dorieis,athenian achaians and them from minor asia's cities were ionian.(the word for greek in turkish language is "yunan").that played a big role in the alliances that where formed in the civil/peloponessian war in the end of 4th century.only the threat of persians unified them just for a little. minoans and their language dissapeared when dorieis invade creta.

But the macedonians you school is referring to is not the Republic of Macedonia in the former Yugoslavia, I bet. Yet, there are people that think Alexander is from the region that is not the Republic of Macedonia in the former Yugoslavia. When in fact, he is from an area that is in modern day Greece.

 

[optimistas]

But the macedonians you school is referring to is not the Republic of Macedonia in the former Yugoslavia, I bet. Yet, there are people that think Alexander is from the region that is not the Republic of Macedonia in the former Yugoslavia. When in fact, he is from an area that is in modern day Greece.

the area that called macedonia back in the days of ottoman empire is a large area now divided between greece ,fyrom and bulgaria. in that period of time ,and up to the middle of 20th century, the inhabitants of this region were a complete mix of greeks,slavs,bulgarians,jews, turks,vlachs ,albanians . nobody argues about that. the debate that i reffered before is about the ancient macedonians who lived in the same area ,more or less . if they were greeks or of some other tribe with their own language,culture etc.

 

[Hyperglide]

Spartan.... what a bland name.