99% of all political deals that have ever occured are "quid pro quo." It's the only way-

[Graves The Elder]

the narrative is being exposed for what it is.

 

[andnowweknow]

the narrative is being exposed for what it is.

 

[Graves The Elder]

and now we know

 

[Overtures]

Yeah, duh. A QPQ is an exchange, and that's precisely what was in question:

If a bi-partisan aid package was held up in exchange for Trump's personal gain.

Because that would be an abuse of power.

Nobody is saying that Trump or other presidents can't use aid packages in exchange for policy commitments, etc. That's normal.

 

[Overtures]

So its not in our interest to investigate Bidens dealings in the Ukraine? Its in our national interests to investigate corruption as a condition to receive aid. Also, it just so happens the national interests and his political career interests coincide here. But guess what? They also did during the Russia investigation. So shrug.

No, it's absolutely, unequivocally not in our national interest to hold up half a billion dollars in pre-approved, bipartisan military aid to force Ukraine to publicly commit to investigations that are based on tenuous evidence/conspiracy theories and only serve Trump's political agenda.

 

[Amerikuracana]

Yeah, duh. A QPQ is an exchange, and that's precisely what was in question:

If a bi-partisan aid package was held up in exchange for Trump's personal gain.

Because that would be an abuse of power.

Nobody is saying that Trump or other presidents can't use aid packages in exchange for policy commitments, etc. That's normal.

If Biden's behavior was of significant relevance to American interests, then there is nothing there. Any Judge is going to create a balancing test here.

 

[Amerikuracana]

No, it's absolutely, unequivocally not in our national interest to hold up half a billion dollars in pre-approved, bipartisan military aid to force Ukraine to publicly commit to investigations that are based on tenuous evidence/conspiracy theories and only serve Trump's political agenda.

With the time value of money, every day or two we didn't give them that bs money saved Americans a million dollar or so. Truth? Good portion of that money is ending up in crooked, rich Ukrainians pockets.

Holding up military aid to foreign nations, which they will use to grow their own military power, deserves the least level of protection. The very least. We really have **ck all to do with that country besides pissing off Russian and 45% of the population of the Ukraine.. And 80% of the population of Crimea who speaks Russian and considers themselves the same.

 

[*Z*]

Do you think it’s in the US interest to investigate and root out corruption - even from previous administrations?

General corruption sure. Not specifically a political opponent. He had years to bring this up. He didn't until now.

 

[tonni]

It didn't happen

There's no evidence it happened

Okay, key witnesses have corroborated it but witnesses are notorious liars unless they exonerate the president

Okay it might've happened

It didn't happen, but if it did, it's all fine, but it never happened, but hypothetically if it looks like it might have happened, everything is fine.

Didn't I post something similar in reply to you a while back? Or you at least liked it. Why do you rip off my posts?

 

[Overtures]

If Biden's behavior was of significant relevance to American interests, then there is nothing there. Any Judge is going to create a balancing test here.

I don't know what you mean here?

Trump didn't try to nobly expose corruption in American politics. He set up an entire back channel government and usurped existing foreign policy in order to push a specific end goal of 1) settling an old political score, and 2) damaging a future political foe. And to add to that, he, seemingly, wanted the theatrics of a public commitment via Ukrainian television.

Had the Soy Boy whistleblower never said anything, perhaps Zelensky would have gotten on TV and announced Burisma was under investigation. And regardless of the findings of that investigation, nobody would ever know Trump had orchestrated the whole thing.

 

[tonni]

You know what a widespread and public cult is refered to? Its called a cult-ure.

Hahaha, oh my god. "Yes we're in a cult but you know you can't write culture without c u l t"

 

[*Z*]

So our government and tax-payers had no interest in Joe Biden's conflict of interests with Ukraine?

You have lost your mind man. You're not even remotely objective. Your mind is made up.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Yeah, duh. A QPQ is an exchange, and that's precisely what was in question:

If a bi-partisan aid package was held up in exchange for Trump's personal gain.

Because that would be an abuse of power.

Nobody is saying that Trump or other presidents can't use aid packages in exchange for policy commitments, etc. That's normal.

It's an interesting spin to say that investigating apparent corruption by the former VPOTUS is a matter of personal gain. In essence, it's a grant of impunity to Biden's corruption.

 

[Overtures]

It's an interesting spin to say that investigating apparent corruption by the former VPOTUS is a matter of personal gain. In essence, it's a grant of impunity to Biden's corruption.

It's an interesting spin to ignore the entire galaxy of evidence that demonstrates Trump didn't give a fuck about national interests throughout this whole affair.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

It's an interesting spin to ignore the entire galaxy of evidence that demonstrates Trump didn't give a fuck about national interests throughout this whole affair.

Each side ignores whatever evidence is inconvenient for their story. People who don't see that there was a problem with official US corruption ignore the fact that Ukrainian businesses were being treated like a piggy bank by scions of powerful US families, Dem and GOP alike. Investigating that is worthwhile.

 

[Overtures]

Each side ignores whatever evidence is inconvenient for their story. People who don't see that there was a problem with official US corruption ignore the fact that Ukrainian businesses were being treated like a piggy bank by scions of powerful US families, Dem and GOP alike. Investigating that is worthwhile.

Sure, I guess.

But if we're being objective like that, Trump deserves to be given the boot. He's a lemon.

 

[7437]

I remember when "no quid pro quo" was all the TS would scream.

 

[ferrisjso]

-anything has ever happened.

Governments ALWAYS expect to get something in return when they give somebody billions of dollars. I don't like the language from the media, because it's almost like the money powers are actively trying to neuter politicians, who although corrupt and generally able to be bought, are sadly one of the only forces to stand up to complete corporate power and plutocracy.

How many deals have Presidents made over the last 200+ years that were not "this for that?" How many politicians, leaders, kings (etc...) around the world have just given large sums of money, or political favors, expecting NOTHING in return? It's non-sense. For our money and influence around the world of course the people must demand a "this-for-that" when our government gives away our money, our resources, or our young American lives, why the hell would we deal with the world if we got NOTHING in return?

There is "this-for-that" at every level of business I have ever seen or been a part of. Lawn-services give kick-backs lol. I've seen it first hand. How else does anything possibly work?

To think every political transaction and instance of American money being spent around the world is only for charity, with no influence or future considerations at stake? it's comical lunacy. It's not reality.

You can have your separate issue of Trump potentially asking for the investigation of potential corruption of a former Vice President (which seems like a credible request at this point, being that Biden basically bragged about doing what Dems are pretending to be mad at Trump for) who is now a potential political rival.. But the media is creating a dumbed down population, who is being conditioned to accept completely weakened and neutered politicians who are supposed to represent their interests.

In conclusion, everything ever is a "quid pro quo." Obama's money to Iran was a "quid pro quo," of course. The way this language is being used by the failed media right now is just kind of strange. It's making you stupid.

I agree(99% is way too far) and if I didn't I feel most of us libs would have this as a central tenent of our foreign policy towards many countries.

But Trump has done dozens of more impeachable things they are substantive things the corporate Dems don't have the balls or the morals to impech him over(climate, health care etc).

 

[AgonyandIrony]

Why is it so hard for you to understand. No one is saying Quid Pro Quo are a bad thing UNLESS you are asking for a favor from a foreign government to dig up dirt on a political rival. Then it is VERY illegal and you of all people should be extremely concerned as a Republican who is concerned about government overreach.

Hell, without any evidence of wrong doing you guys are pissed off because you think Obama was spying on Trump. If that were true, this would be just as bad. Unfortunately for you, we have evidence Trump used his position for political gain whereas you have CT.

Imagine the next Dem in office has 0 morals like Trump but knows how to juice the system better and uses his position to destroy every single possible political rival for the next 8 years using Israeli intelligence to dig up dirt? You’ll just say that’s normal?

Leftists anytime a Right Winger tries to pull the morality and family values card after Trump.

 

[vengeful]

You're the idiot these days. No Judge is going to put Americas interests on the back-burner so a crooked politician doesn't get exposed.. Because it MAY help the current President. You guys are actually stupid. Like for real.

You are all advocating for Biden not being investigated because he's running for President. You ever think about it?

I have heard conflicting stories on the withholding of whatever money we were giving them for whatever reason. If America did not have a superior interest in finding out whether a person running for President had proven to create conflicts of interests in a similar position, then you might have something. I mean, the phone call obviously has no withholding of aid, so I guess I'll need to hear more from these Democrat shill agents about it.

I don't care about Biden being investigated and I don't think anyone here does. What we care about is Biden being investigated by Ukraine, and when their foreign aid is being tied to investigating Biden by the current administration that has a clear political bias against Biden, then yes that investigation needs to be halted. Nobody with any sense would take an American citizen being investigated by a country like Ukraine while there's hundreds of millions of dollars being tied to that investigation. Ukraine would have clear reason to find something faulty with Biden and his son during that investigation.

America doesn't have any superior interest in that, America had every opportunity to investigate that from the moment Trump became president, but it didn't become an issue for Trump until Biden announced he was running for President, more than two years later. But since you have this belief, then you should believe that every deal Trump has made with foreign banks should be investigated because America has a superior interest in the deals its Presidents made that may have them beholden to foreign entities, right?

The phone call is just one issue about quid pro quo, it is what led to the inquiry. What you should be more concerned about is that multiple officials including Trump's ambassador Sondland has testified that Ukraine foreign aid was tied to a public announcement that Biden be investigated. But I guess he's just a Democratic shill agent, right? It's like you think that one 30-minute phone call is the only thing that has happened that was inappropriate.