Who was better overall - Shogun or Hendo?

[mirko>anyone]

A relatively new fan I’ve introduced to MMA asked me this question, and I think there are valid arguments in both sides.

Obviously, they fought head to head twice. First fight was possibly the greatest fight ever, where Hendo got the slight nod. In the second fight, Hendo rearranged his face.

Shogun

2005 GP winner

UFC LHW champion

Ranked #1 on at least two occasions


Wins over

rampage
Machida
Liddell
Coleman
Arona
Overeem 2x
Little Nog
Forest


Hendo

UFC MW tournament winner
Double PRIDE champ

May never have been ranked #1 (not sure if he was or wasn’t), but certainly had success longer.

Wins over

Fedor
Big Nog
Shogun 2x
Bisping
Bustamante
Sobral
Calvancante
Franklin
Palhares
Wanderlei
Vitor

Hendo was better for longer, has bigger wins, and obviously beat Rua head to head. On the flip side, Shogun probably had the higher peak, was clearly the best fighter in his division, and doesn’t have as many close decisions.

I told him Dan Henderson is my pick.

 

[markg171]

If only they'd fought or something.

Better yet if they'd fought multiple times.

Oh well.

 

[Get To Da Choppa]

I agree with you. Hendo didn't have the same peak and meteoric rise as Shogun, but his resume is absolutely stacked. Plus he ended his career on somewhat of a good note for almost winning the UFC title and knocking down Bisping twice with the H-bomb, while Shogun is still fighting like a zombie these and getting knocked out by average fighters

Plus Dan Henderson walked out with this epic shirt, and this alone gave him 10 extra legend points

 

[Bmurray]

Neither choice is objectively wrong

 

[Gamer007]

Hendo

 

[Rear Naked Toke]

If only they'd fought or something.

Better yet if they'd fought multiple times.

Oh well.

At least once, for sure. Multiple times might've settled the debate.

 

[Pierced7681]

TRT taints this discussion, but I’ll still go with Shogun having the better career due to him winning gold in UFC, which Dan was never able to do.

 

[mjmj]

Neither choice is objectively wrong

The debate can end here.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Hendo.

But Shogun is higher on the LHW GOAT rankings.

EDIT: this ELO site agrees with me (as if we needed confirmation....)

• (all weights) https://www.fightmatrix.com/all-time-mma-rankings/all-time-absolute/
• (LHW) https://www.fightmatrix.com/all-time-mma-rankings/all-time-lightheavyweight/

 

[mirko>anyone]

If only they'd fought or something.

Better yet if they'd fought multiple times.

Oh well.

Maybe head to head for sure, but overall as well? I completely understand your point but it’s also fair to explore their work outside of the head to head matchups. Mir has 2 wins over Noguiera, but I don’t think many would say Mir > Nog in all time HW lists. Rampage also lost twice to Wanderlei in PRIDE but I still would favor early UFC rampage over Wand. Clearly, I noted and gave credit to Hendo for winning, but it doesn’t necessarily mean he is better overall. Shogun best plenty of people Henderson couldn’t.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Shogun

If Shogun got to use TRT in the later stages of his career too he'd currently still be contending for titles.

 

[mirko>anyone]

Shogun

If Shogun got to use TRT in the later stages of his career too he'd currently still be contending for titles.

Additionally, Shogun had many more serious injuries. I’m still picking Hendo, but if someone were to say Shogun > Hendo at their absolute peak, that’s fair.

 

[mirko>anyone]

I agree with you. Hendo didn't have the same peak and meteoric rise as Shogun, but his resume is absolutely stacked. Plus he ended his career on somewhat of a good note for almost winning the UFC title and knocking down Bisping twice with the H-bomb, while Shogun is still fighting like a zombie these and getting knocked out by average fighters

Plus Dan Henderson walked out with this epic shirt, and this alone gave him 10 extra legend points

Quality post. When they fought, it was genuinely one of the few times I hated to see either lose. I think I started the fight rooting for Hendo, but after beating the dogshit out of Shogun, I was happy to see him rally.

 

[Ravenwing]

Shogun was probably better but a shortee period of time

 

[AmericanMMA]

Hendo for sure

 

[markg171]

If Shogun got to use TRT in the later stages of his career too he'd currently still be contending for titles.

Shogun's issue is that his skills suck ass, not that he doesn't have enough testosterone anymore. It's not that he's not fast enough to land things, it's that he looks like he doesn't even know when or why they should be thrown anymore. Hendo never got that bad, even when he couldn't even turn his head independent from his body anymore lol.

Also Hendo competed for another 2.5 years after TRT was banned. He knocked Shogun the fuck out in that period.

 

[DOMMA]

Very tough call - both are legends.

 

[SteveColdStone]

Shogun at his peak was the better fighter imo, so I think that Shogun was the better fighter overall. Who had the better career is a tougher one for me. Shogun has suffered more lows than Hendo did. I prefer to judge fighters on what they did during their peaks, but losing to people like Anthony Smith and Paul Craig is not going to gain you any points. Hendo nearly won the title in his final fight.

 

[Pillar of Society]

Shogun's issue is that his skills suck ass, not that he doesn't have enough testosterone anymore. It's not that he's not fast enough to land things, it's that he looks like he doesn't even know when or why they should be thrown anymore. Hendo never got that bad, even when he couldn't even turn his head independent from his body anymore lol.

Also Hendo competed for another 2.5 years after TRT was banned. He knocked Shogun the fuck out in that period.

Both times Hendo fought Shogun synthetic testosterone was flowing through Hendo's veins, he somehow got a bullshit exemption to roid up for their 2nd fight too

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/platfor...erson-vs-shogun-2-trt-steroids-last-fight-tue

 

[1BadMF]

Hendo