Elections 2020 Democratic Primary Thread v4

[franklinstower]

My mother has MS and worked 16 hour days taking care of the mentally ill in criminally understaffed situations for 30 years, you don’t need to tell me anything about struggles.

I am all for helping those folks. They are not of able mind and body. I’m fine helping them.

However, if your ass is dumb because you wasted your education, spent your life partying, and now you want a handout from me?

But you vote no help for the ones who need it so the ones who cheat wont get it. I cant agree with that.

 

[ShadowRun]

I can be done and easily once people want to do it. If a livable minimum wage with health care is not possible under this system then this system needs a total overhaul.

I am willing to say that no one should have more than they need until everyone has what they need.

This is the philosophical underpinning from which we must work outwards towards solutions.

Do you have what you need right now? I imagine so, how did you get to that? College? or ?

 

[franklinstower]

Do you have what you need right now? I imagine so, how did you get to that? College? or ?

I and most of the people I know do not need any aid, have healthcare, own our homes etc.

But I work in a particular field where I am placed in contact with those in society that are the most broken. I know and have known far, far to many whose best really is a low paying job. These people are deeply valuable and good people and they deserve to enjoy a certain bare minimum of safety and security.

My foundation on all of this thinking is Christianity and its bias for the poor and the broken. Jesus told us to feed the poor and provide for their medical care and needs and to give housing to the homeless.

He said these things to preserve the spiritual emotional and psychological development of the poor and broken and perhaps equally importantly, for the wellbeing of those who have more than they will ever need and the damage done to their souls by not sharing.

There is also the larger issue of God and Christ trying to grow everyone into a certain spiritual level where we can all enjoy a profound intimacy with God and share in God's consciousness and the blessing this will pour into the world.

All of this kind of growth is difficult on its face and made doubly difficult when the survival instinct and the fear that comes with it, is being triggered over and over throughout a day. It is in everyone's best interests to give the weakest among us a bare minimum of security.

Health care, a wage that provides for all of one's needs, and secure housing are necessary for this to happen.

 

[bobgeese]

Everyone knows or has known criminals and/or people who game the system, that doesn't invalidate everyone who needs benefits. The interesting thing would be if you could provide a statistic that shows that social fraud is higher than any other business fraud, much less to a degree that "overburdens the system". The last I knew it wasn't.

Part of the job of a case worker who provides benefits like SNAP is to deny benefits to people who are lying or flag accounts of people who are suspicious so they are investigated.


The latter doesn't invalidate the former and a for profit healthcare system and weak safety nets only exacerbate situations like that.

The more money that goes to people gaming the system, the less goes to those that need it. We need literally every penny because the conditions are terrible. If you’re actually interested I will get the number, but I’m pretty sure it would be 2 or 3 women on an entire floor, with a couple male security for the whole place. If someone calls in sick you are automatically mandated and have to work 16 hours. This happens a couple times a week.

These places are everywhere, they house rapists and murderers, and if they aren’t there, they are in your communities.

Trust me, I know and agree we need a social safety net. Also, to the dismay of my right leaning friends here, I have conceded the issue of healthcare to the democrats. The republicans not only can’t win the fight, they don’t even know how to fight it. We will eventually end up with a UHC system.

I’m just glad half of you are saying the other half is gonna make private healthcare illegal, I can stay on that talking point until Election Day. After that, I give...

 

[bobgeese]

But you vote no help for the ones who need it so the ones who cheat wont get it. I cant agree with that.

No, I vote for a strong economy, because I work, and a strong economy benefits me.

Not to mention, in our current system, implementing the level of change democrats are promising is laughable. They’re selling a pipe dream that is going to sour a lot of people on the progressives when they realize it was all BS.


I’m old enough to remember hope and change. And let me tell you, Bernie Sanders is no Barack Obama. If Barack couldn’t do it, Bernie doesn’t stand a chance.

 

[franklinstower]

No, I vote for a strong economy, because I work, and a strong economy benefits me.

Not to mention, in our current system, implementing the level of change democrats are promising is laughable. They’re selling a pipe dream that is going to sour a lot of people on the progressives when they realize it was all BS.


I’m old enough to remember hope and change. And let me tell you, Bernie Sanders is no Barack Obama. If Barack couldn’t do it, Bernie doesn’t stand a chance.

You said--
"No, I vote for a strong economy, because I work, and a strong economy benefits me."


I think voting out of self interest is the biggest problem we have today.

 

[PEB]

 

[Aldo4Ever]

Damn. I get the feeling Warren's ploy backfired.

 

[tatanos]

Because I’m not a loser leftist. I worked hard developing my skills, I’m now enjoying the benefit of hard work.

This frightens and confuses the commie.



Sorry you’re missing out on this amazing economy. Maybe reevaluate your life decisions.

“I’m okay with parasitic leeches and bloodsuckers robbing the people blind and manipulating the government to secure their own wealth and power.”

That’s all I see when I read your ‘success’ story. You have fancy yuppie gadgets, a fat ass, and digital digits in the bank, so now you’re going to defend billionaire financiers and their corrupt politicians.

Ok. So that makes you a prostitute. Good job. I wonder how much it costs to buy your support?

All you designate when you call people communists is their dignity. Call us whatever you want, I’m sure it helps soothe your guilty conscience.

 

[PHATV]

Political Turmoil to Be 'New Normal' for 2020...
Warren-Sanders rift has progressives nervous about fallout...
Iowa Dems view flawed front-runners with anxiety...
Bloomberg seen as having best chance to beat Trump in betting market...

CAUCUS CHAOS
NEW RULES CONFUSE
MULTIPLE VICTORIES?

 

[PHATV]

Obviously the whole thing was set-up and staged by Warren and CNN. Including that part after. 100% choreographed.

 

[bobgeese]

“I’m okay with parasitic leeches and bloodsuckers robbing the people blind and manipulating the government to secure their own wealth and power.”

That’s all I see when I read your ‘success’ story. You have fancy yuppie gadgets, a fat ass, and digital digits in the bank, so now you’re going to defend billionaire financiers and their corrupt politicians.

Ok. So that makes you a prostitute. Good job. I wonder how much it costs to buy your support?

All you designate when you call people communists is their dignity. Call us whatever you want, I’m sure it helps soothe your guilty conscience.

 

[bobgeese]

You said--
"No, I vote for a strong economy, because I work, and a strong economy benefits me."


I think voting out of self interest is the biggest problem we have today.

I agree, democrats running their entire campaign on giving away impossible sums of money is disgusting. Mostly because they know it’s a lie, and their voters are either too stupid, or too emotionally driven to recognize that.


You’re all going to be black pilled worse than me after a failed progressive presidency.

 

[franklinstower]

I agree, democrats running their entire campaign on giving away impossible sums of money is disgusting. Mostly because they know it’s a lie, and their voters are either too stupid, or too emotionally driven to recognize that.


You’re all going to be black pilled worse than me after a failed progressive presidency.

Thats not agreeing and you know it. My post was in response to you saying you vote for what benefits you.

The progressive battle is a political revolution. No one expects the first presidency to fix everything. The battle is a long one but with demographics on our side.

 

[ShadowRun]

I and most of the people I know do not need any aid, have healthcare, own our homes etc.

But I work in a particular field where I am placed in contact with those in society that are the most broken. I know and have known far, far to many whose best really is a low paying job. These people are deeply valuable and good people and they deserve to enjoy a certain bare minimum of safety and security.

My foundation on all of this thinking is Christianity and its bias for the poor and the broken. Jesus told us to feed the poor and provide for their medical care and needs and to give housing to the homeless.

He said these things to preserve the spiritual emotional and psychological development of the poor and broken and perhaps equally importantly, for the wellbeing of those who have more than they will ever need and the damage done to their souls by not sharing.

There is also the larger issue of God and Christ trying to grow everyone into a certain spiritual level where we can all enjoy a profound intimacy with God and share in God's consciousness and the blessing this will pour into the world.

All of this kind of growth is difficult on its face and made doubly difficult when the survival instinct and the fear that comes with it, is being triggered over and over throughout a day. It is in everyone's best interests to give the weakest among us a bare minimum of security.

Health care, a wage that provides for all of one's needs, and secure housing are necessary for this to happen.

Well church still do more charity for their local communities than any other org. How do you get to interact with the poor? you know a shrink thinks a high level of people are crazy, so don't let that cloud your judgement that everyone is poor and can't help themselves. You are really bought in that America is broken I think. There is nothing wrong with wanting better for mankind but the solutions is the argument.

 

[bobgeese]

Thats not agreeing and you know it. My post was in response to you saying you vote for what benefits you.

The progressive battle is a political revolution. No one expects the first presidency to fix everything. The battle is a long one but with demographics on our side.

I’m 100% serious with this.


There will be serious backlash against a failed progressive presidency.


Hypothetically, you elect Bernie, markets go down, unemployment goes up, etc (even if this is through no fault of his own). And his presidency ends with millions of young disillusioned progressives. It could be a long term disaster for the party. It will be too long before another progressive wins to restart any agenda Bernie may have started.


Progressives need another Obama like political talent (Pete has the raw talent, but I’m not sure he’s left enough for you) that can get a massive push, win the presidency house and senate, and smash through legislation like it’s the last chance they’ll ever have to do it.


That is the realistic approach. Hoping Bernie is going to set off a revolution, is not.


Ps, If you were smart, you would wait till the end of trumps second term (in the meantime building up a few talented progressives, getting name recognition etc), hope that there is a severe contraction in the economy, and ride a wave of backlash much like Obama did running against Bush. That could really help put public pressure on legislation.

 

[franklinstower]

Well church still do more charity for their local communities than any other org. How do you get to interact with the poor? you know a shrink thinks a high level of people are crazy, so don't let that cloud your judgement that everyone is poor and can't help themselves. You are really bought in that America is broken I think. There is nothing wrong with wanting better for mankind but the solutions is the argument.

It is Christianity that insists upon our brokeness, all of us to varying degrees and our deep need for God. It is after all the point of needing salvation. It is also Christianity that insists that we feed the poor, take in the homeless and provide medical care for all people. It is Christianity that insists that those who have more than they need share it with those who dont.

UHC and a living wage is one way to endure that everyone can have these basic needs met. As far as I can tell it is the only way to ensure that these things are provided and that in a society that has individuals with billions of dollars that they could never need or spend.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Any Warren supporters left? Any of you want to defend her recent actions?

 

[HereticBD]

You said--
"No, I vote for a strong economy, because I work, and a strong economy benefits me."


I think voting out of self interest is the biggest problem we have today.

Don't poor people vote out of their self interest?

 

[franklinstower]

Don't poor people vote out of their self interest?

The point I made is that people should vote for what is in the best interests of everyone and not only in self interest.

Our consideration should be deep and thoughtful and motivated by a true desire to see what is best for all manifest.