Elections 2020 Democratic Primary Thread v4

[HereticBD]

why is it that right leaning folk are constantly waiting, with baited breath, for Mr. Sanders (or for a while, Tulsi Gabbard) to unload on the DNC?

Wanting to see him stand up for himself has nothing to do with his agenda, or supporting him in the GE, so just stop that nonsense. You can want the guy to call out the DNC and their bullshit, and still not support his fantastical agenda.

Bottom line, he is promoted as the no nonsense guy who will never bow down to the establishment, but yet, when the establishment openly pisses in his mouth, he always takes a big gulp, chokes it down, smiles, and gets the fuck out of the way. You have to wonder about a guy who calls himself a fighter who will not be intimidated by anyone, especially the establishment, but never punches back when that very establishment is kicking him in the nuts.

 

[xcvbn]

Those people

A) took risks and manage an empire

B) provide jobs and products

C ) pay taxes



These are not equivalent.

A) exploit a corrupt system
B) provide jobs at starvation wages to Americans at best, under the table to illegal labor at worst
C) DON'T pay taxes

 

[franklinstower]

But you ARE rewarding them.


And yes, the 35 year old guy pumping gas made shitty life choices.


They’re not punished, they are paid what society values them at. Not much. Because that’s what they’ve done with their lives and opportunities, not much.

We should value them more is my position which I have told you is rooted in the Christian tradition.

Its Ok-- we disagree. This does not bother me at all.

 

[IGIT]

Warren is somebody I've lost a lot of confidence in for a number of reasons related to the weakness of her character. But she's a million times the man Donald Trump is, regardless, so I keep my criticism in perspective.

hi Fawlty,

i liked your analysis.

one question, though; how is Mrs. Warren's character any worse than Mr. Bidens, Sanders, or Buttigeig?

- IGIT

 

[bobgeese]

We should value them more is my position which I have told you is rooted in the Christian tradition.

Its Ok-- we disagree. This does not bother me at all.

The amusing part, is our argument would confuse the shit out of people,

A democrat arguing for the Christian approach, with a republican yelling we’re apes on a rock.


The times, they are a chaaaaaannnging.

 

[bobgeese]

hi Fawlty,

i liked your analysis.

one question, though; how is Mrs. Warren's character any worse than Mr. Bidens, Sanders, or Buttigeig?

- IGIT

It’s 1/1024 Bernie’s character.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I'm trying to find some rival political shit tactics...

what GWB did to McCain was pretty terrible.

the swift boating of John Kerry was below the belt imo.

@Trotsky @Jack V Savage any other memories come to mind?

I don't think it's remotely comparable to either of those things. Seems pretty clear that they're just remembering the same thing a little differently, which happens. The outrage over it by the WR nutter crowd is wildly disproportionate.

Some historically shitty tactics were hacking emails and then hyperventilating over them to try to stir dissension among a candidate's opponents (Trump/Russia), in smaller races getting candidates with the same name as your opponent to join the race and split the vote (multiple people have done that, including JFK), debate prep being stolen (Carter's was taken before the Reagan debate by a still-unknown person and given to Reagan, and Gore's team received Bush's though they did not read it and contacted the FBI about it), and sabotaging peace talks (Nixon). To compare this to any of that is a pretty clear sign of primary fever.

 

[Officer Rick]

I’m right next to your worthless, hippie commune of a state.


NY motherfucker.


Your whole state is a fall Sunday drive to us. Literally nothing more.

I live in Florida

 

[IGIT]

hi again HereticBD,

Wanting to see him stand up for himself has nothing to do with his agenda, or supporting him in the GE, so just stop that nonsense. You can want the guy to call out the DNC and their bullshit, and still not support his fantastical agenda.

what bullshit, though?

the DNC is a private organization. they, like the RNC, strategize state and national campaigns...and they encourage (along with discourage) different candidates from running.

heck, Reince Priebus tried to quell the nervous GOP establisment, actually making a private visit to then candidate Trump in the wake of the "grab'm by the pussy" soundbite - encouraging him to get out of the race.

that's what these organizations do, and that's what they've been doing for a while now.

Bottom line, he is promoted as the no nonsense guy who will never bow down to the establishment, but yet, when the establishment openly pisses in his mouth, he always takes a big gulp, chokes it down, smiles, and gets the fuck out of the way. You have to wonder about a guy who calls himself a fighter who will not be intimidated by anyone, especially the establishment, but never punches back when that very establishment is kicking him in the nuts.

i think that's a misread on Mr. Sanders.

Bottom line; he's an adult. he is not a bomb thrower.

he told America that Hillary Clinton, and the rest of both party establishments, are in the clutches of monied interests. he screamed it from the top of his lungs in 2016, but the Democrats went with Mrs. Clinton and the nation elected a billionaire to the White House.

America simply did not care about what Mr. Sanders had to say, at least not to the degree needed to push him over the top. his solution was to double down on his positions and change the entire party in his image.

he seems like a smart guy who played it long. Ron Paul wishes he had the influence on his party that Mr. Sanders is exhibiting.

- IGIT

 

[bobgeese]

I live in Florida

 

[IGIT]

It’s 1/1024 Bernie’s character.

hi bobgeese,

Mr. Sanders is an outlier among politicians from either side of the aisle.

i don't think its quite fair to compare anyone to him, really, in terms of character. it helped that he was a congressman from a low population state that essentially has zero GDP, and zero minorities - its easy to not be swayed by special interests when none exist in Bernie's state.

that being said, Mrs. Warren seems to be no worse than the garden variety politician on the matter.

how is her character so terrible? i mean, besides just saying "her character sucks". could you expand on that a bit?

*muses*

lets get an idea of scale. is Mrs. Warren's character worse or better than Mr. Obama's? how about compared to Mrs. Clinton?

- IGIT

 

[Jack V Savage]

lets get an idea of scale. is Mrs. Warren's character worse or better than Mr. Obama's? how about compared to Mrs. Clinton?

Or her likely general-election opponent. It's comical that Trump fanboys would talk about any politician's character as if they care about honesty, respect, and integrity.

 

[bobgeese]

hi bobgeese,

Mr. Sanders is an outlier among politicians from either side of the aisle.

i don't think its quite fair to compare anyone to him, really, in terms of character. it helped that he was a congressman from a low population state that essentially has zero GDP, and zero minorities - its easy to not be swayed by special interests when none exist in Bernie's state.

that being said, Mrs. Warren seems to be no worse than the garden variety politician on the matter.

how is her character so terrible? i mean, besides just saying "her character sucks". could you expand on that a bit?

*muses*

lets get an idea of scale. is Mrs. Warren's character worse or better than Mr. Obama's? how about compared to Mrs. Clinton?

- IGIT

I would think it’s mostly how she lied about being a Native American, but then I remember her lying about Bernie.

And her policies.

And how she’ll pay for them.

 

[IGIT]

Or her likely general-election opponent. It's comical that Trump fanboys would talk about any politician's character as if they care about honesty, respect, and integrity.

hello there Jack V Savage,

i just get aggravated when nebulous terms are blithely tossed around as voter justification for one candidate or another.

lol. it seems so lazy to me.

i mean, in 2016 folks didn't rally to Mrs. Clinton because she was so clearly the most corrupt politician in the history of mankind. what the fuck did that even mean?

if it refers to Benghazi, she's been cleared by numerous congressional investigative committees, along with President Trump's State Dept, along with the FBI.

if it referred to the Clinton Foundation, it was optically stupid (of course), but there have been zero findings that the charity did anything amiss.

if it referred to her profitable dip into the lecture circuit, lol, which politicians don't engage in that sort of easy cash grab? its normal. in the here and now, with this particular POTUS along with his administration, the idea of getting holier than thou regarding conflict of interest issues seems completely hilarious.

the conversation about Clinton never went into policy. she was just CORRUPT (full stop)...and now folks are slagging on Mrs. Warren (whose policy positions, in the aggregate, seem indistinguishable from Mr. Sanders) over character.

character, lol.

WTF does that mean, anyway?

- IGIT

 

[ShadowRun]

Or her likely general-election opponent. It's comical that Trump fanboys would talk about any politician's character as if they care about honesty, respect, and integrity.

The difference is trump voters knows he says dumb things and lies they admit it, more than I could say for Clinton , Warren and Obama “fan boys”

 

[Jack V Savage]

The difference is trump voters knows he says dumb things and lies they admit it, more than I could say for Clinton , Warren and Obama “fan boys”

The reason people think that Trump's character is so much lower than Clinton, Obama, and Warren's is that it very obviously is much lower. He lies constantly, he betrays people who trust him, etc. It's not that everyone is the same person and it's just bias that causes some people to think more highly of some people than they do of others.

 

[IGIT]

hi bobbygeese,

I would think it’s mostly how she lied about being a Native American, but then I remember her lying about Bernie.

i think its been born out that Mrs. Warren indeed did have some native american blood. from what i can gather about reading the topic, its something she used in her resume and her applications earlier in her academic career - and it may have, in a small way, helped her get a leg up on advancing her career.

*muses*

is that wrong? by that i mean, is that the sort of thing supposed to be the kiss of death or something?

if that's the case, it seems a little silly to me.

people cite their race, or religion, or military record, or "family ties" ie - heritage admissions, etc, etc, all the time, to get ahead in life.

*shrugs*

i don't see the big deal in any of it.

And her policies.

And how she’ll pay for them.

we can discuss any of her policies in the specific, from student loan forgiveness to free state college, to her healthcare reform. Mrs. Warren has cited how she'll generate the revenue (or just lard it into the national debt - which she does in some cases) for her programs.

it would be nice for a change to just talk policy.

- IGIT

 

[tatanos]

Ojeda is our secret weapon.

 

[IGIT]

The difference is trump voters knows he says dumb things and lies they admit it, more than I could say for Clinton , Warren and Obama “fan boys”

hello ShadowRun,

fan boys?

lol.

Hillary Clinton is the most hated politician on this forum. there was exactly 1 Clinton booster in 2016 in the War Room - and he was a troll (help me out here, Jack V Savage. what was his name? i remember he was in college, and a fervent Clinton booster - and he did an about face the moment the election was over).

- IGIT

 

[Jack V Savage]

hello ShadowRun,

fan boys?

lol.

Hillary Clinton is the most hated politician on this forum. there was exactly 1 Clinton booster in 2016 in the War Room - and he was a troll (help me out here, Jack V Savage. what was his name? i remember he was in college, and a fervent Clinton booster - and he did an about face the moment the election was over).

- IGIT

SouthofAndes/SpiderManisGOAT/Caudillo. Octavian (great poster who rarely posts these days) was another.