Elections 2016 Iowa Caucus Thread

[Quipling]

Thanks. I didn't realize she was polling that far away from Bernie. I thought it was close and people like riding the momentum, just hearign she won iowa could influence on-the-fence voters. But not enough for that to be the difference if the gap is 25%. Other things could still close it and make it interesting but yeah, I think I'd have to agree that Bernie is definitely the favorite.

Most of the Clinton-has-a-shot-at-NH predicitions happened a few weeks ago, when they were pulling even. Races tend to converge closer to the actual date, which is what happened in both iowa caucuses.

Also, per Trump v. Clinton - just take a look at what Fiorina did to Trump in the second debate, and remember that Clinton is far better at all the necessary tools than Fiorina ever was. (Also, Trump's debate performance has historically been poor)

 

[skombolis]

I think it goes trump vs sanders, or rubio vs clinton. While left and right are defiantly divided, I don't think the view of establishment politics is. I really want a bernie vs trump election. I think sanders is trumps' kryptonite.

I hope so. What scares me is that Trump might be better at diversion against Sanders. He certainly isn't going to be him straight up on substance but he won't beat anyone that way. It is just so hard for me to trust the general public to see who is better and to see through the games.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Trump vs Bernie would be epic though. Imagine the debates. Bernie would be bringing substance and laying out his policy plan and Trump would be like "Bernie is a loser, communist. He would do a horrible job."

I actually think trump would be forcedar to change his shtick versus bernie. The optics of bernie taking the high road, selling a united america, and his substance would be too much.

Also I think bernie has one line that could destroy trump...."if you think the problem is billionaires running this country, how can you vote for Donald trump"?

I think that line is devastating.

 

[skombolis]

Most of the Clinton-has-a-shot-at-NH predicitions happened a few weeks ago, when they were pulling even. Races tend to converge closer to the actual date, which is what happened in both iowa caucuses.

Also, per Trump v. Clinton - just take a look at what Fiorina did to Trump in the second debate, and remember that Clinton is far better at all the necessary tools than Fiorina ever was. (Also, Trump's debate performance has historically been poor)

If somehow Trump wins I definitely want it to be Hillary against him. I agree she has the tools to make him look bad.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Also, if we're talking about Donald as the nominee (it won't be him), Sanders is an easier opponent than Hillary.


Hillary would seriously crush and embarrass Trump. If you want an MMA analogy, it would be like Anderson Silva vs. Forrest. Just calculated head movement and counter punching while Trump swings like a drunk hillbilly.

I think hillary and trump would become a feces throwing contest. Where as I think when trumy started throwing feces at sanders, and sanders says, I am here to debate the problems the people of this country face, that the optics of this are disastrous for trump.

 

[theBLADE1]

It sources to "conservativeoutfitters.com" and a reddit thread in which someone alleges that cheating occurred, and displays a video that doesn't actually display what you claim happened. So, no, that doesn't actually reach any kind of standard at all.

I don't think you understand the difference between an actual source and a link to recycled content.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4578575/clinton-voter-fraud-polk-county-iowa-caucus

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ry-now-raising-more-questions-of-voter-fraud/

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/the-second-example-of-hillary-clintons-election-fraud-whoa-video/

http://www.westernjournalism.com/th...arys-iowa-victory-that-has-many-crying-fraud/

http://www.examiner.com/article/hillary-clinton-campaign-accused-of-voter-fraud-polk-county-iowa

Here I'll let you "cherry pick" the ones you deem acceptable. Also I don't know maybe watch the video before you comment on it.

 

[Ruprecht]

And his take on the Democrat coin flip.

Golf is about the least inspirational example he could have chosen... at least he didn't go on and on whining about the conspiracy between the media and the establishment though.

 

[theBLADE1]

Bernie needs to just close the gap in south carolina, a win in Nevada would be huge for the campaign. Despite the media's claim to the contrary, the coasts pick the democratic nominee, not the south.

He definitely has a lot of ground to cover in South Carolina I won't deny it but I don't think it's impossible either. I tend to agree with Dr. Cornell West who says that African-American voters in the South just don't know Bernie well enough yet to vote for him. Hopefully that can change. Most black voters here the last name of Clinton and just automatically assume she will be like Bill who was a very favorable president among Blacks. It's going to be far more interesting then the idiots who claim Bernie has no chance make it out to be.

 

[skombolis]

I'd bet the farm on Sanders taking NH and Hillary taking SC.

Hillary is going to blow the doors off of Sanders in the dirty south.

I was talking to my dad yesterday and he said the same thing. That regardless of Iowa and N.H. that he thinks she will run away with a lot of the Southern States.

I didn't have time for details (and we moved on to Megatron retiring from the Lions!) but he follows the news a lot more closer than I do these days. Guess we will find out soon enough.

 

[speakhandsforme]

I actually think trump would be forcedar to change his shtick versus bernie. The optics of bernie taking the high road, selling a united america, and his substance would be too much.

Also I think bernie has one line that could destroy trump...."if you think the problem is billionaires running this country, how can you vote for Donald trump"?

I think that line is devastating.

I never know why leftist politicians never bring up the fact that you often need to choose between (A) a rich guy who is advocating giving more of his money to you and government programs, versus (B) a rich guy who is trying to convince you to let him keep more of his money for himself. That's an angle I never see. It's less appropriate in public officials, but it seems striking to me when you're comparing people like, say, Glenn Beck and Rachel Maddow.

 

[speakhandsforme]

I was talking to my dad yesterday and he said the same thing. That regardless of Iowa and N.H. that he thinks she will run away with a lot of the Southern States.

I didn't have time for details (and we moved on to Megatron retiring from the Lions!) but he follows the news a lot more closer than I do these days. Guess we will find out soon enough.

As racist as it can be construed, the problem is that southern blacks don't have the same access to political mediums as other demographics and, with Sanders being relatively new and his support being primarily viral, the HUGE disparity in name recognition is nearly impossible to overcome.

Meanwhile, you have petty black journalists who get mad at being "bullied" by Sanders supporters citing his much better record on civil rights and policy on behalf of minorities and insisting that, because neither is perfect, it's excusable to allow the black votes to overwhelmingly go to Hillary.

 

[speakhandsforme]

Also, sucks about Megatron. Talk about a class act. As a Packers fan, nothing but respect for that guy.

 

[VivaRevolution]

He definitely has a lot of ground to cover in South Carolina I won't deny it but I don't think it's impossible either. I tend to agree with Dr. Cornell West who says that African-American voters in the South just don't know Bernie well enough yet to vote for him. Hopefully that can change. Most black voters here the last name of Clinton and just automatically assume she will be like Bill who was a very favorable president among Blacks. It's going to be far more interesting then the idiots who claim Bernie has no chance make it out to be.

I hope he does a concert in south carolina, with brother ali, killer mike, and cornel west. I think it would move the needle.

I love the optics of brother ali, doing the song a letter to my countrymen, with cornel west, and sanders on stage.

 

[VivaRevolution]

As racist as it can be construed, the problem is that southern blacks don't have the same access to political mediums as other demographics and, with Sanders being relatively new and his support being primarily viral, the HUGE disparity in name recognition is nearly impossible to overcome.

Meanwhile, you have petty black journalists who get mad at being "bullied" by Sanders supporters citing his much better record on civil rights and policy on behalf of minorities and insisting that, because neither is perfect, it's excusable to allow the black votes to overwhelmingly go to Hillary.

I think this issue of sanders support in the black community is simple. The black community for the most part does not consume corporate news media. The question is whether or not sanders can get his message out through other channels. This has yet to be seen.

 

[Space]

I think this issue of sanders support in the black community is simple. The black community for the most part does not consume corporate news media. The question is whether or not sanders can get his message out through other channels. This has yet to be seen.

Does it matter? Black voters often respond to strong candidates, which puts Bernie out of the running.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I never know why leftist politicians never bring up the fact that you often need to choose between (A) a rich guy who is advocating giving more of his money to you and government programs, versus (B) a rich guy who is trying to convince you to let him keep more of his money for himself. That's an angle I never see. It's less appropriate in public officials, but it seems striking to me when you're comparing people like, say, Glenn Beck and Rachel Maddow.

Agreed, but I will take it a step further. We are trapped in a debate between more private power, or more public power. There is no government, there are no corporations. They are one entity.

All centralized power is a threat to the public's liberty.

I support sanders because he advocates for more public power in ways to serve the people, and advocates for public power to be used to shatter private power. I believe public power needs to be reformed, and decentralized, as well, but I'm not being offered that candidate.

 

[Quipling]

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4578575/clinton-voter-fraud-polk-county-iowa-caucus

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ry-now-raising-more-questions-of-voter-fraud/

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/the-second-example-of-hillary-clintons-election-fraud-whoa-video/

http://www.westernjournalism.com/th...arys-iowa-victory-that-has-many-crying-fraud/

http://www.examiner.com/article/hillary-clinton-campaign-accused-of-voter-fraud-polk-county-iowa

Here I'll let you "cherry pick" the ones you deem acceptable. Also I don't know maybe watch the video before you comment on it.

I'm going to reiterate: It's blatantly clear that you're just linking the first site that parrots your claims, or is remotely relevant to them. That is not sourcing your claims, that is just spewing links. Almost all of these cites directly quote to the reddit thread in question, meaning they aren't actually sources of original arguments - they're recycled content. If you can't tell the difference between recycled content and original content, educate yourself before wasting more time.
As for this latest round of sites:

You're quoting from TheBlaze now? As in, the Glennbeck laughingstock "news" site? I'm not going to even pollute my computer with that.

The next two "sources" are fringe right-wing sources that score poorly enough on credibility that the first result for both is "satire:"

The politicalinsider, which reposts chain email-style stories like this:
http://www.snopes.com/dead-grandfather-offends-muslims/

westernjournalism, which not only does the same, but was founded specifically to attack the clintons in the 90s?

The only two credible sources you have are cspan, which is simply a link of the video in question, not an interpretation of it, and TheExaminer, a virginia news outlet that's simply states that there are allegations of voter fraud - in other words, that the other stories exist. These do not support your claim. They are simply reports that people are making the claim you are making.

Also, I watched the video the first time I responded to your garbage. It doesn't show voter fraud. What it shows is a hillary precinct captain giving a vote count, a sanders captain giving another, a recount as marginal votes are redistibuted (under caucus rules, candidates under a threshold have their votes redistributed), a recount occurring where it's not clear that the Hillary captain is doing a direct recount instead of just adding the votes received from redistributed O'Malley supporters. The Sanders voters formally request a recount, it's put to a public vote, and the public overwhelmingly refuses a recount. That's not voter fraud. At worst, it's voter laziness. Something that is mentioned in the reddit thread that all of your fucking links cite to as their source.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Does it matter? Black voters often respond to strong candidates, which puts Bernie out of the running.

Hello space,
.............................................is......it.........racist?

- HendoRuaGOAT

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[VivaRevolution]

Question on the communist thing. Isn't it pretty CT'ish to believe in a communist conspiracy?

Who would be the head of this organization? Venezuala?