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2016-2017 NBA THREAD V11: Ainge is a terrible GM

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faustian said:
Not really. He was unable to win for 7 years until Riley built an unprecedented superteam for him. Then that ran its course largely due to Wad's injuries and league owners revolting to make it near impossible for Miami to add pieces and the whole thing ended with pussycramps and LeBum leading the most brutal Finals defeat in NBA history. So LeBum needed a new superteam and Cleveland capitalized on unprecedented lottery rigging to build him a new superteam. Now we're seeing unprecedented midseason signings lol

tl/dr: LeBum is just another superstar who can't win jack or shit unless he's being extremely coddled on every level
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Orlando's lottery run was more improbable.
 
dream said:
Lol at comparing the black mamba to Lebrons crybaby ass. Mamba never wanted help, he wanted to win on his own. Lebron begs other stars to help him because he the lacks the mentality of a mamba.
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Curry begged durant to come on the warios
 
faustian said:
Not really. He was unable to win for 7 years until Riley built an unprecedented superteam for him. Then that ran its course largely due to Wad's injuries and league owners revolting to make it near impossible for Miami to add pieces and the whole thing ended with pussycramps and LeBum leading the most brutal Finals defeat in NBA history. So LeBum needed a new superteam and Cleveland capitalized on unprecedented lottery rigging to build him a new superteam. Now we're seeing unprecedented midseason signings lol

tl/dr: LeBum is just another superstar who can't win jack or shit unless he's being extremely coddled on every level
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faust is not bitter folks,
 
HomerThompson said:
Orlando's lottery run was more improbable.
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The Shaq pick made perfect sense. ORL was 21-61 the prior season and 3 expansion teams all got the first 3 picks (ORL, CHA, MIN). In fact CHA's lottery history was nearly as fortuitous as ORL's getting the #1 in 1991 then the #2 in 1992

ORL then getting the #1 again in 1993 was definitely shady especially since they had finished 41-41. Only a 1.52% chance at #1

So it could've been tremendous luck one season or perhaps the league was trying to prop up recent expansion teams and rigged a lottery for ORL one season (funny that fellow expansion team MIA never got this treatment). At worst it was one rigged lottery for ORL

CLE is a whole other story entirely. First started when they got the #1 pick in 2003. Granted they had tied for the worst record that year but worst record will more often NOT land you the #1 (only a 22.50% chance at #1) and it's always funny when a superhyped consensus 1st pick conveniently ends up going to his struggling hometown team (also see: Derelict Rose in 2008)

Okay so that's one #1 but even tho it's a convenient hometown story we'll say it's legit. So ORL got Shaq and CLE got LeBum

Then literally the season after LeBum leaves CLE the Canaliers proceed to land THREE #1 overalls in FOUR years. Here were their odds of winning the lotto those years:

2011 - 2.80%
2013 - 15.60%
2014 - 1.70%

Ridiculously unheard of and on a completely different level than ORL winning one unlikely lottery. Throw in the fact that Gilbert is one of the most high-profile and powerful owners in the NBA and raised holy hell after LeBum left in 2010 and it's a wrap
 
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faustian said:
The Shaq pick made perfect sense. ORL was 21-61 the prior season and 3 expansion teams all got the first 3 picks (ORL, CHA, MIN). In fact CHA's lottery history was nearly as fortuitous as ORL's getting the #1 in 1991 then the #2 in 1992

ORL then getting the #1 again in 1993 was definitely shady especially since they had finished 41-41. Only a 1.52% chance at #1

So it could've been tremendous luck one season or perhaps the league was trying to prop up recent expansion teams and rigged a lottery for ORL one season (funny that fellow expansion team MIA never got this treatment). At worst it was one rigged lottery for ORL

CLE is a whole other story entirely. First started when they got the #1 pick in 2003. Granted they had tied for the worst record that year but worst record will more often NOT land you the #1 (only a 22.50% chance at #1) and it's always funny when a superhyped consensus 1st pick conveniently ends up going to his struggling hometown team (also see: Derelict Rose in 2008)

Okay so that's one #1 but even tho it's a convenient hometown story we'll say it's legit. So ORL got Shaq and CLE got LeBum

Then literally the season after LeBum leaves CLE the Canaliers proceed to land THREE #1 overalls in FOUR years. Here were their odds of winning the lotto those years:

2011 - 2.80%
2013 - 15.60%
2014 - 1.70%

Ridiculously unheard of and on a completely different level then ORL winning one unlikely lottery
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Did they really win 3 overall number 1's in 4 years? That's crazy, although getting 1, 2, 1 in 3 consecutive is just as crazy to me. Also, Shaq makes all the other picks irrelevant. I just watched the 30 for 30 about the Magic, and it obviously influenced my thinking on this. I can't believe they couldn't get a title.
 
HomerThompson said:
Did they really win 3 overall number 1's in 4 years? That's crazy, although getting 1, 2, 1 in 3 consecutive is just as crazy to me. Also, Shaq makes all the other picks irrelevant. I just watched the 30 for 30 about the Magic, and it obviously influenced my thinking on this. I can't believe they couldn't get a title.
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I was pretty young when Shaq bolted for LAL and there wasn't nearly as much available info back then so I kinda thought Snaq was a douche for leaving (never been a fan of his in general) but then I saw that same 30 for 30 and completely changed my tune. It's impossible to feel bad for the Magic franch or their fans afrer the franch first brutally lowballed him on an extension RIGHT AFTER the Heat gave Zo the max then the dumbass redneck Central Florida fans overwhelmingly voted that Shaq wasn't worth the max lmao
 
faustian said:
I was pretty young when Shaq bolted for LAL and there wasn't nearly as much available info back then so I kinda thought Snaq was a douche for leaving (never been a fan of his in general) but then I saw that same 30 for 30 and completely changed my tune. It's impossible to feel bad for the Magic franch or their fans afrer the franch first brutally lowballed him on an extension RIGHT AFTER the Heat gave Zo the max then the dumbass redneck Central Florida fans overwhelmingly voted that Shaq wasn't worth the max lmao
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Yeah, they shit the bed horribly. If he'd stayed they would've gotten one eventually. Kobe would be seen a lot differently too. People wouldn't even compare him to Lebron. Hell, Phil might've gone to Orlando.
 
And then the Webber (the original #1 drafted by ORL) for Penny deal basically bombed in hindsight. They got a little to cute trying to force a Magic/Kareem 2.0 and ended up with nothing after only like 5 years or something
 
That whole thing was weird. Everyone wanted to take a side in Penny vs. Shaq, which seemed really manufactured. Then everyone sided with Penny because he was awesome and Shaq didn't seem focused on basketball (famously had full recording studio in his home but not a single hoop). Of course, as soon as Shaq left, Penny's numbers fell off and then the injuries started because he was getting killed out there as the only focal point.
 
I always thought Penny was overrated
 
Penny was going to be great. His second year in the league he was averaging 20+ on 50+% shooting. I don't care who he was playing with. Kobe never put up that kind of shooting. Plus he ran the point at 6'7" and was a decent (though not great) defender.
 
I thought they were always trying to force the PG thing with him too much. But they had Nick Anderson who was a near allstar SG so who knows

I just never cared for Penny's game. Seemed too soft and was a streaky midrange shaater, didn't have any real go-to. Kinda interesting to look at his FG% after Snaq left; from 51% in '96 to 45% in '97 to 42% in '99 plus he wasn't a 3pt shaater
 
4/5 of those guys have been a top 2 player on a Finals team, 2 of them (possibly 3 after this season) have been MVPs
 
faustian said:
I thought they were always trying to force the PG thing with him too much. But they had Nick Anderson who was a near allstar SG so who knows

I just never cared for Penny's game. Seemed too soft and was a streaky midrange shaater, didn't have any real go-to. Kinda interesting to look at his FG% after Snaq left; from 51% in '96 to 45% in '97 to 42% in '99 plus he wasn't a 3pt shaater
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The injuries also started the first year Shaq was gone, but yeah, I mentioned the fall off earlier. As soon as Shaq left Penny got the crap beat out of him every night. All of his numbers dropped. His go to was get to the hoop when he first came in. As soon as he was scared to get beat up down low, it was a problem.
 
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