164 Evil Verses... from the New Testament

[Lucifer Alpha]

i love muslims

Too obvious.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

It doesn't matter what percentage of real Muslims commit the crimes in the name of Islam. This number can change as it has changed. You can't deny that there has been a boom of radicalisation in Islamic communities of Europe. The nominal/moderate Muslims have the potential to become radicalised and further increase the number of crimes committed in the name of Islam. This is what matters, the number of crimes committed in the name of Islam and the estimated number of potential radicals killing even more.



That is another matter. We are discussing murders committed in the name of Islam. You can put that smelly herring away.



That is not what I proposed. But it could be a good thing.

Sure it matters. We know people are capable of bad things. If we limit discussion to only Muslims and Islam, of course they are going to be treated unfairly.

It's like using cops being killed by blacks as reasons to not let any blacks into the country. There's apparently been a "boom" of that. With "potential" of even more.

The way the goal posts are set up is obviously unfair.

 

[meauneau]

Sure it matters. We know people are capable of bad things. If we limit discussion to only Muslims and Islam, of course they are going to be treated unfairly.

It's like using cops being killed by blacks as reasons to not let any blacks into the country. There's apparently been a "boom" of that. With "potential" of even more.

The way the goal posts are set up is obviously unfair.

We limit the discussion to Muslims and Islam because that is the topic being discussed: the crimes committed by Muslims in the name of Islam. Islam is what motivates these individuals to do what they wouldn't do had they not been Muslims. And those Muslims who still haven't committed such crimes have the potential in them to do so.

You compare black people killing cops to Muslims killing nonMuslims. There is no similarity here. Black people are reacting to racist cops. Muslims are not reacting to racist nonMulsims, they just want them killed or converted to Islam.

Good try though.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

We limit the discussion to Muslims and Islam because that is the topic being discussed: the crimes committed by Muslims in the name of Islam. Islam is what motivates these individuals to do what they wouldn't do had they not been Muslims. And those Muslims who still haven't committed such crimes have the potential in them to do so.

You compare black people killing cops to Muslims killing nonMuslims. There is no similarity here. Black people are reacting to racist cops. Muslims are not reacting to racist nonMulsims, they just want them killed or converted to Islam.

Good try though.

But by focussing on such a narrow bandwith the overall issue gets skewed.

The vast majoirty of Muslims do not kill people period. Let alone kill people since they won't covert or leave Islam. To shine a light on the people that do and make other issues not newsworthy or discussion worthy is a great way to create bigotry and prejudice against a group of people though.

 

[meauneau]

But by focussing on such a narrow bandwith the overall issue gets skewed.

The vast majoirty of Muslims do not kill people period. Let alone kill people since they won't covert or leave Islam. To shine a light on the people that do and make other issues not newsworthy or discussion worthy is a great way to create bigotry and prejudice against a group of people though.

What's the overall issue?

The vast majority of Muslims, the moderates and nominal Muslims, don't kill, fine, but the real or true Muslims do. The former have the potential to become true Muslims, and this is the danger. No one can deny this. They also provide a cover for the real Muslims by denying the truth which is that these people are doing what the Koran tells them to do. They are motivated by Islam.

If someone carries a dangerous disease which can harm those around him he is put into quarantine. I am not suggesting the same for Muslims, carriers of the disease of Islam. But something should be done to cure them or at least to protect those around them.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

What's the overall issue?

The vast majority of Muslims, the moderates and nominal Muslims, don't kill, fine, but the real or true Muslims do. The former have the potential to become true Muslims, and this is the danger. No one can deny this. They also provide a cover for the real Muslims by denying the truth which is that these people are doing what the Koran tells them to do. They are motivated by Islam.

If someone carries a dangerous disease which can harm those around him he is put into quarantine. I am not suggesting the same for Muslims, carriers of the disease of Islam. But something should be done to cure them or at least to protect those around them.

Well, I see real and true muslims killl, and fake muslims don't.

So why should a great fake Muslim have to pay for the sins of real muslims. Like why should real Christians have to pay for the sins of fake ones. And it follows why should a good fake Muslim be treated worse than a bad fake Christian.

 

[meauneau]

Well, I see real and true muslims killl, and fake muslims don't.

So why should a great fake Muslim have to pay for the sins of real muslims. Like why should real Christians have to pay for the sins of fake ones. And it follows why should a good fake Muslim be treated worse than a bad fake Christian.

There is a difference between Christianity and Islam, hence why Christians and Muslims should not be treated equally in so far as they are Muslims and Christians.

The fake Muslims is not a good example to use. A fake Muslim is one who rejects Islam and doesn't believe it. I refered to the believer who is not well informed about Islam, or cherry pick. This is what is refered to as moderate or nominal Muslims. These have the potential to learn about the true nature of Islam and become radicals. This again is what we are experiencing in Europe.

This is why people should be careful with Muslims and be suspicious of them. The more Muslim they are the more dangerous they will be.

 

[Vagitarian]

There is a difference between Christianity and Islam, hence why Christians and Muslims should not be treated equally in so far as they are Muslims and Christians.

The fake Muslims is not a good example to use. A fake Muslim is one who rejects Islam and doesn't believe it. I refered to the believer who is not well informed about Islam, or cherry pick. This is what is refered to as moderate or nominal Muslims. These have the potential to learn about the true nature of Islam and become radicals. This again is what we are experiencing in Europe.

This is why people should be careful with Muslims and be suspicious of them. The more Muslim they are the more dangerous they will be.

If you reject islam and dont believe, youre not muslim.

 

[meauneau]

If you reject islam and dont believe, youre not muslim.

That's what I said. So?

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

There is a difference between Christianity and Islam, hence why Christians and Muslims should not be treated equally in so far as they are Muslims and Christians.

The fake Muslims is not a good example to use. A fake Muslim is one who rejects Islam and doesn't believe it. I refered to the believer who is not well informed about Islam, or cherry pick. This is what is refered to as moderate or nominal Muslims. These have the potential to learn about the true nature of Islam and become radicals. This again is what we are experiencing in Europe.

This is why people should be careful with Muslims and be suspicious of them. The more Muslim they are the more dangerous they will be.

How are you going to put that in practice without prejudice?

Let me give a case in point, when I lived in another country, one of the ladies I worked with was a Yemeni Sunni Muslim. She prayed five times a day. She was the chair of our charity committee (I was a member of said committee) and on occasion we would go to events together. And sometimes we would have an afterwork bite or a drink (my beer, her lemonade). Classy, successful, generous, and kind woman. Frequently went on humanitarian missions in other countries. Certainly a fake Muslim by your books, and I am sure she would agree with you that she was a fake Muslim because your knowledge of Islam certainly would have surpassed hers.

If she still happened to be in Yemen when shit broke loose, and for whatever reason she wanted to move, should our policy be sorry, you can't come here because you identify as a Muslim? Last week three guys put on shariah only vests and roamed the street. Or some Muslim kicked someone? So sorry, you are back of the line.

Or better yet... should I tell her, sorry, you should leave, you could become a true Muslim and kill someone. Should I say, no country should let you in their borders for your humanitarian work becuase you could become a true Muslim and become a radical and kill someone there?

The answer in my book is no. She is not guilty by association.

That is not to say there should be rampant, unmitigated immigration with no screening processes or anything like that. But it is simply wrong to say anyone who identifies as a Muslim is carrying a disease or a bad day away from killing people and must be treated worse. There is always an inherent risk that ANYBODY can do something bad. People can go postal working at the office. People can get drunk and kill people in a DUI (although Muslims are probalby underrepresented here). There is some sort of reasonable ground that needs to be found. All Muslims are evil potential murderers is not the healthy middle ground. If anything, that contributes to a vile self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Gutter Chris]

the mainstream/moderate position is not that muslims are evil and we need to accept that. the mainstream/moderate position is that you are all a bunch of fucking nazis, and your Islamophobic hysteria is disgusting.

Missed the mark son. Im not hystarical one bit I dont want a muslim registry I think a lot of these right wingers are nuts but I see a pattern emerging and it concerns me.


See there seems to be an islamic terrorist event everyday and a lot of folks are concerned and maybe even fed up. A lot of folks on the left cant even admit this and its a problem. Its a problem because of the brexit and trump and it seems to be causing a huge surge in some very right wing thinking. Now if you ever read a history book or 2 you know that once a lotta folks feel that way crazy things can happen.


This oh my god the crusades and Christians are just as bad is absolute intellectual dishonesty at its finest and while you wanna play games with it and see who all you can make mad extreme right wing ideologies are marching forward across the globe. Might wanna think about if that is something you wanna see or not and then act accordingly

Might help a bit if those that lean to the left can at-least admit that theres an issue ya know. No ones asking you to have a solution just to stop pretending like the folks who are afraid of Islam came to that conclusion out of thin air

 

[dissolved]

Is that how they do it in your world?

Off with their head!

Yup, of course it is. He talks that Muslims aren't violent but then threatens with it. Islam 101.

 

[meauneau]

How are you going to put that in practice without prejudice?

Let me give a case in point, when I lived in another country, one of the ladies I worked with was a Yemeni Sunni Muslim. She prayed five times a day. She was the chair of our charity committee (I was a member of said committee) and on occasion we would go to events together. And sometimes we would have an afterwork bite or a drink (my beer, her lemonade). Classy, successful, generous, and kind woman. Frequently went on humanitarian missions in other countries. Certainly a fake Muslim by your books, and I am sure she would agree with you that she was a fake Muslim because your knowledge of Islam certainly would have surpassed hers.

She is not a fake Muslim because she doesn't follow her religion as Mohammed intended. If she states the shahada and testifies that there is no god but Allah and Mohammed his messenger then she is a Muslim, but a moderate, naive or nominal Muslim. A fake Muslim is one who pretends to be a Muslim but in the inside rejects the shahada; he could be atheist or somethig else.

If she still happened to be in Yemen when shit broke loose, and for whatever reason she wanted to move, should our policy be sorry, you can't come here because you identify as a Muslim? Last week three guys put on shariah only vests and roamed the street. Or some Muslim kicked someone? So sorry, you are back of the line.

I did not suggest that. I argued that people who fear Muslims, who are suspicious of some, who avoide them, etc., are justified in doing so. It's Islam's fault, so it's up to Muslims to do something about it.

Or better yet... should I tell her, sorry, you should leave, you could become a true Muslim and kill someone. Should I say, no country should let you in their borders for your humanitarian work becuase you could become a true Muslim and become a radical and kill someone there?

The answer in my book is no. She is not guilty by association.

Right. But we should not ignore that she is a potential jihadi. If she doesn't believe in universal human rights, hates nonMuslims, wants sharia for all, etc., then I would consider her a threat and deny her entry.

That is not to say there should be rampant, unmitigated immigration with no screening processes or anything like that. But it is simply wrong to say anyone who identifies as a Muslim is carrying a disease or a bad day away from killing people and must be treated worse. There is always an inherent risk that ANYBODY can do something bad. People can go postal working at the office. People can get drunk and kill people in a DUI (although Muslims are probalby underrepresented here). There is some sort of reasonable ground that needs to be found. All Muslims are evil potential murderers is not the healthy middle ground. If anything, that contributes to a vile self-fulfilling prophecy.

Everyone has the same potential for evil. But this potential can be increased or actualized by many factors, one of them being Islam. Islam not only actualizes this potential, it increases it. As said many times before, evidence of this is everywhere. Muslims and converts born and bred in the West become radicalised and murder people. This is an example of how the diseased spread the disease and pas get it on to the people around them.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Missed the mark son. Im not hystarical one bit I dont want a muslim registry I think a lot of these right wingers are nuts but I see a pattern emerging and it concerns me.


See there seems to be an islamic terrorist event everyday and a lot of folks are concerned and maybe even fed up. A lot of folks on the left cant even admit this and its a problem. Its a problem because of the brexit and trump and it seems to be causing a huge surge in some very right wing thinking. Now if you ever read a history book or 2 you know that once a lotta folks feel that way crazy things can happen.


This oh my god the crusades and Christians are just as bad is absolute intellectual dishonesty at its finest and while you wanna play games with it and see who all you can make mad extreme right wing ideologies are marching forward across the globe. Might wanna think about if that is something you wanna see or not and then act accordingly

Might help a bit if those that lean to the left can at-least admit that theres an issue ya know. No ones asking you to have a solution just to stop pretending like the folks who are afraid of Islam came to that conclusion out of thin air

That's a good post.

But really the intellectual dishonesty isn't about the crusades, it's about lack of concern of anybody's well being outside the borders of Europe and North America.

There has been no serious attempt to hold anyone seriously responsible and make them pay for the Iraq War (except maybe Shillary Clinton of all people), and the rather complete disregard for the civilian loss of life there, and in Syria for that matter.

As someone astutely pointed out today, that wouldn't be in line with Jesus!!!!

 

[Vagitarian]

That's what I said. So?

No you are still treating them as muslims. you just say they are not religious muslims. muslims are a religious denomination, not an ethnic group.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

She is not a fake Muslim because she doesn't follow her religion as Mohammed intended. If she states the shahada and testifies that there is no god but Allah and Mohammed his messenger then she is a Muslim, but a moderate, naive or nominal Muslim. A fake Muslim is one who pretends to be a Muslim but in the inside rejects the shahada; he could be atheist or somethig else.



I did not suggest that. I argued that people who fear Muslims, who are suspicious of some, who avoide them, etc., are justified in doing so. It's Islam's fault, so it's up to Muslims to do something about it.



Right. But we should not ignore that she is a potential jihadi. If she doesn't believe in universal human rights, hates nonMuslims, wants sharia for all, etc., then I would consider her a threat and deny her entry.



Everyone has the same potential for evil. But this potential can be increased or actualized by many factors, one of them being Islam. Islam not only actualizes this potential, it increases it. As said many times before, evidence of this is everywhere. Muslims and converts born and bred in the West become radicalised and murder people. This is an example of how the diseased spread the disease and pas get it on to the people around them.

LOL. Sometimes I wonder how anybody is brave enough to step out their front door. This lady is a potential jihadi as much as I am a potential serial killer. The odds are infinitesimally small. But I can understand the fear factor as it was used quite a bit to help garner support for invading Iraq. Man, how easy it is to maniupulate people when you can instill fear into them.

And, you can be suspicious of blacks, and any group of people for whatever reason anyone wants. It doesn't mean there should be institutionalized prejudices in place against them. It just seems to be fair game for Muslims these days. It's very en vogue.... Things evolved in my lifetime from the jews, to the vitenamese, to the blacks, to the Muslim. Even though the overwhelming majority of all these groups of people are decent. I'm sure nobody regrets not allowing the S.S. St Louis to dock given there could have been a disease carrier on board lol.

 

[meauneau]

No you are still treating them as muslims. you just say they are not religious muslims. muslims are a religious denomination, not an ethnic group.

Wtf? I think you are confused bro.

If you take the shahada you are a Muslim.

 

[Vagitarian]

Wtf? I think you are confused bro.

If you take the shahada you are a Muslim.

There are plenty of countries that are considered muslims where tons of people have not taken the shahada. Yet you still probably lump them with muslims. Second, the shahada means shit if you choose to now believe in no god and that mohamed was a pedophilic warlord.

 

[meauneau]

LOL. Sometimes I wonder how anybody is brave enough to step out their front door. This lady is a potential jihadi as much as I am a potential serial killer. The odds are infinitesimally small.

If there's nothing nothing wrong with you then the chances of you actualizing the potential to become a serial killer will be as you say infinitesimally small. However, if you suffer from some mental disorder or become a Muslim, like the many Westerners who became Muslims and went to the ME to rape and murder, etc., then the chances of your potential being actualized increases till it reaches the state of actuality.

But I can understand the fear factor as it was used quite a bit to help garner support for invading Iraq. Man, how easy it is to maniupulate people when you can instill fear into them.

This is real, unlike the WMD.

And, you can be suspicious of blacks, and any group of people for whatever reason anyone wants. It doesn't mean there should be institutionalized prejudices in place against them. It just seems to be fair game for Muslims these days. It's very en vogue.... Things evolved in my lifetime from the jews, to the vitenamese, to the blacks, to the Muslim. Even though the overwhelming majority of all these groups of people are decent. I'm sure nobody regrets not allowing the S.S. St Louis to dock given there could have been a disease carrier on board lol.

Blacks don't have an ideology of world domination, which tells it's followers to treat unbelievers harshly, not to take them as friends and allies, to treat women as second class citizens, etc.

The main beef I have is with Islam. Muslims are just victims here. But since they refuse to be cured from this disease they will have to live as sick people. Their choice.

 

[meauneau]

There are plenty of countries that are considered muslims where tons of people have not taken the shahada. Yet you still probably lump them with muslims. Second, the shahada means shit if you choose to now believe in no god and that mohamed was a pedophilic warlord.

Bro you are really confused.

When one takes the shahada with conviction, or is doxastically committed to the main creeds of Islam, then he is a Muslim. Regardless of how well he follows the rituals and the sunna, etc.

By modus tollens we can tell what is not a Muslim.