Which side is being more irrational about MayMac?

[MyEnglishIsPeperoni]

Yeah, I think he looked all over the internet for stats to back him up. Made a mistake with NO, and proves my point that he is clueless. He will avoid this thread now!

i dont know much about bj penn aka GOAT, but its true, that he only needed 3 years for his black belt and hes also the first from america to win a world tournament jiu-jitsu.i dont know much about him, so i cant say much.

he had the talent + skills

 

[Shinobi]

Off course there are boxers who went straight to pro and done very well. When you look into some of these rare cases where they have done well, it is not like they some up one day, suddenly wanted to do boxing, then had their first fight. They would have been training for years. Just like Wilfredo Vázquez jr, he trained in boxing for years before turning pro, look who is dad was.

But most boxers have to go through the ranks. That is just the way it is.

But before I address your post, please explain what you said about BJ penn?

As a non boxing fan, I know you must have been searching google for hours getting your stats about boxers and boxing, but with BJ penn , think you have made a mistake there.

You keep holding on to your delusion that somehow you know more about boxing than me, but it doesn't show in your posts. I mean, you claim you do, but nothing you say really proves it. I, on the other end, went through all the trouble of countering all of your points and explaining you why you're wrong. Just like like i did with the low blow subject, in which i was right, just like i'm right here.

I just showed you don't need to have an amateur career to be able to fight and beat professional boxers. It's a fact, not an opinion. Yeah, most boxers have amateur careers, but that doesn't change the fact that many went pro with no to very few amateur fights and years of training and still did well. It's a fact.

Now, about BJ Penn: BJ Penn got his black belt with 3 years of training and became a world champion right after that, which is something that had never been done before. Again, this shows how someone with no world class experience and very little training can beat world class athletes in ANY SPORT. Yeah, most of the time it's not going to happen, but it has happened plenty of times, so don't call me ignorant and don't go around repeating your "sweet science" bullshit, making it seem like if you don't have many years of experience you can't do well against a pro. That's not the case at all.

 

[MorrisonJay]

i dont know much about bj penn aka GOAT, but its true, that he only needed 3 years for his black belt and hes also the first from america to win a world tournament jiu-jitsu.i dont know much about him, so i cant say much.

he had the talent + skills

Yeah he was a fantastic fighter in his prime, also a very fast leaner. By the time he stated competing, he was a fantastic martial artist, and his jiu-jitsu amazing.

Still, shinobi is talking crap, and I think he realised he made a mistake on that one!

That is what happens when you are clueless and get all your information on Google. You are bound to slip up!

 

[MorrisonJay]

You keep holding on to your delusion that somehow you know more about boxing than me, but it doesn't show in your posts. I mean, you claim you do, but nothing you say really proves it. I, on the other end, went through all the trouble of countering all of your points and explaining you why you're wrong. Just like like i did with the low blow subject, in which i was right, just like i'm right here.

I just showed you don't need to have an amateur career to be able to fight and beat professional boxers. It's a fact, not an opinion. Yeah, most boxers have amateur careers, but that doesn't change the fact that many went pro with no to very few amateur fights and years of training and still did well. It's a fact.

Now, about BJ Penn: BJ Penn got his black belt with 3 years of training and became a world champion right after that, which is something that had never been done before. Again, this shows how someone with no world class experience and very little training can beat world class athletes in ANY SPORT. Yeah, most of the time it's not going to happen, but it has happened plenty of times, so don't call me ignorant and don't go around repeating your "sweet science" bullshit, making it seem like if you don't have many years of experience you can't do well against a pro. That's not the case at all.

You ate talking rubbish! He had a lot of training! He was also a quick learner. When he started competing, he had all the skills to be a great fighter!

 

[Shinobi]

You ate talking rubbish! He had a lot of training! He was also a quick learner. When he started competing, he had all the skills to be a great fighter!

Most guys who win BJJ world championships have been training their entires lives. Most of them since kids. BJ Penn was a black belt world class BJJ grappler after 3 years of training.

See? You don't know what you're talking about, but you keep insisting and fighting for the idea that you're right, just like in the low blow subject. You think you're smarter than everybody else, which you aren't, and that only allows you to look in one direction. Then you're proven wrong and you go looking for other subjects to give your stupid opinion on.

Do you have any proof that i'm wrong in anything i said in that post? You don't. So just keep quite.

 

[MorrisonJay]

You keep holding on to your delusion that somehow you know more about boxing than me, but it doesn't show in your posts. I mean, you claim you do, but nothing you say really proves it. I, on the other end, went through all the trouble of countering all of your points and explaining you why you're wrong. Just like like i did with the low blow subject, in which i was right, just like i'm right here.

I just showed you don't need to have an amateur career to be able to fight and beat professional boxers. It's a fact, not an opinion. Yeah, most boxers have amateur careers, but that doesn't change the fact that many went pro with no to very few amateur fights and years of training and still did well. It's a fact.

Now, about BJ Penn: BJ Penn got his black belt with 3 years of training and became a world champion right after that, which is something that had never been done before. Again, this shows how someone with no world class experience and very little training can beat world class athletes in ANY SPORT. Yeah, most of the time it's not going to happen, but it has happened plenty of times, so don't call me ignorant and don't go around repeating your "sweet science" bullshit, making it seem like if you don't have many years of experience you can't do well against a pro. That's not the case at all.

Sorry, but 95% of fighters will have had an amuater fights

You keep holding on to your delusion that somehow you know more about boxing than me, but it doesn't show in your posts. I mean, you claim you do, but nothing you say really proves it. I, on the other end, went through all the trouble of countering all of your points and explaining you why you're wrong. Just like like i did with the low blow subject, in which i was right, just like i'm right here.

I just showed you don't need to have an amateur career to be able to fight and beat professional boxers. It's a fact, not an opinion. Yeah, most boxers have amateur careers, but that doesn't change the fact that many went pro with no to very few amateur fights and years of training and still did well. It's a fact.

Now, about BJ Penn: BJ Penn got his black belt with 3 years of training and became a world champion right after that, which is something that had never been done before. Again, this shows how someone with no world class experience and very little training can beat world class athletes in ANY SPORT. Yeah, most of the time it's not going to happen, but it has happened plenty of times, so don't call me ignorant and don't go around repeating your "sweet science" bullshit, making it seem like if you don't have many years of experience you can't do well against a pro. That's not the case at all.

95% of boxer have an amateur career first. There are special circumstances like I mentioned.

You said Conor, at the moment is a c level boxer. Again absolute rubbish! Then in another post you said Floyd would be considered a c level boxer now! I mean seriously!

You really want cudos for going on hoping and getting as much information as you can because you are clueless!

When you were first trolling on these boards, you obviously knew nothing about boxing. You ignored a lot of my points, but I proved you wrong so many times, you went onto google to get your information. This is obvious because of how you started on these boards. You are a troll, and your comment about BN1 penn just proves that!

 

[MorrisonJay]

Most guys who win BJJ world championships have been training their entires lives. Most of them since kids. BJ Penn was a black belt world class BJJ grappler after 3 years of training.

See? You don't know what you're talking about, but you keep insisting and fighting for the idea that you're right, just like in the low blow subject. You think you're smarter than everybody else, which you aren't, and that only allows you to look in one direction. Then you're proven wrong and you go looking for other subjects to give your stupid opinion on.

Do you have any proof that i'm wrong in anything i said in that post? You don't. So just keep quite.

It can take up to 20 years to get you're black belt in Jiu-Jitsu. It is common knowledge that penn, was a notorious
Fast learner. But it is not like he won the championships on his first go, as he did not. But he took that experience and one it a year later.

These types of fighters are few and far between. You think Conor is one of these fighters? No, he is not, and never will be.

And here is the difference. None of these fighters had their fist pro fight against a belt holder, let alone one of the greatest fighters of all time. Yes, not the fighter he was , but see not a c class fighter, and still a very dangerous fighter. You just do not seem to get it.

You have lied and lied to try and give yourself some cred. You do not have the balls to say you lied about being a Conor fan, when it is pretty obvious you are talking out of your ass!

You lied about being a boxer. That, I do not even need to explain.

So, you started of saying the same crap when you joined. Floyd 40, brittle hands, not had a fight in too years etc

It is only when I started to question, and you ignoring my posts and just jumping ship, that you started to say the very same things I was saying to you all of a sudden!

You are a troll, and you are not a boxing fan. Using Google does not hide the fact that you are clueless and lying!

 

[Shinobi]

Sorry, but 95% of fighters will have had an amuater


95% of boxer have an amateur career first. There are special circumstances like I mentioned.

You said Conor, at the moment is a c level boxer. Again absolute rubbish! Then in another post you said Floyd would be considered a c level boxer now! I mean seriously!

You really want cudos for going on hoping and getting as much information as you can because you are clueless!

When you were first trolling on these boards, you obviously knew nothing about boxing. You ignored a lot of my points, but I proved you wrong so many times, you went onto google to get your information. This is obvious because of how you started on these boards. You are a troll, and your comment about BN1 penn just proves that!

You're just dancing around the fact that you're wrong:

1- You claimed someone couldn't beat an experienced pro boxer without years of fighting experience. I proved you wrong.

2- I never said Floyd would be a C level boxer now. I said he is not the best in the world now, not a C level boxer, you idiot.

3- You couldn't refute anything i said about BJ but still claim i'm wrong and a troll, which just proves you're a dumbass with no real arguments. You just go around telling people they're wrong, but when it comes down to provide evidence, you're nowhere to be seen. How am i wrong about BJ? Didn't he win the world championships in BJJ with very few years of training? Wasn't he a Black Belt after 3 years? Dummy.

 

[NotoriousMillions]

Yeah, I think he looked all over the internet for stats to back him up. Made a mistake with NO, and proves my point that he is clueless. He will avoid this thread now!

He doesn't know jackshit about BJ or BJJ. He's a clueless moron looking up Google statistics. I don't give a fuck if it was two years if he got his black belt (which it was actually longer than 3). What matters is how many hours you put on the mat and BJ put in more than most people put in 10 years, not to mention continuous competition experience a lot of people don't have.

That's not to take anything away from BJ. He's an incredible athlete and student of the game, who made history. However, people acting like he rolled off the couch with a few sessions and got a black belt and world title need to shut the fuck up and go roll.

 

[MorrisonJay]

You're just dancing around the fact that you're wrong:

1- You claimed someone couldn't beat an experienced pro boxer without years of fighting experience. I proved you wrong.

2- I never said Floyd would be a C level boxer now. I said he is not the best in the world now, not a C level boxer, you idiot.

3- You couldn't refute anything i said about BJ but still claim i'm wrong and a troll, which just proves you're a dumbass with no real arguments. You just go around telling people they're wrong, but when it comes down to provide evidence, you're nowhere to be seen. How am i wrong about BJ? Didn't he win the world championships in BJJ with very few years of training? Wasn't he a Black Belt after 3 years? Dummy.

1-Please post where I said that? I never said that. So how can you prove me wrong with something I did not say?

Of course it is possible! Please, post where I said that!

2- Sorry, meant Conor. So, let me get this straight. You believe Conor is a c level boxer would know all the areas of boxing, but needs experience to get to the best of his ability.

Clearly Conor is not a c level boxer!

3- Well, maybe you should read what I said! I said the Penn is notorious for being a quick learner. Like i said, it normally takes 10 years to get you're black belt. And I also said these kind of people are few and far between.

What makes you think Conor should be one of these people?

 

[MorrisonJay]

He doesn't know jackshit about BJ or BJJ. He's a clueless moron looking up Google statistics. I don't give a fuck if it was two years if he got his black belt (which it was actually longer than 3). What matters is how many hours you put on the mat and BJ put in more than most people put in 10 years, not to mention continuous competition experience a lot of people don't have.

That's not to take anything away from BJ. He's an incredible athlete and student of the game, who made history. However, people acting like he rolled off the couch with a few sessions and got a black belt and world title need to shut the fuck up and go roll.

I know exactly what shinobi is doing

 

[somemark]

i have read people on this very board talk about how "consistently" conor was landing and that floyd "missed" a lot

i mean that pretty much says it all, right. its like we watched different fights.

i gave conor a 4, mainly due to his chin and his defense early (he did slip some shots effectively). on the negative side, he couldn't fight inside at all, he can't work the body, his cardio wasn't there, he didn't seem to have a plan after THE LEFT HAND didn't work, his jab was landing early but was completely ineffective and didn't help him control distance at all (which is why you throw the punch, its not simply to score), his power shots hit a lot of gloves, shoulders, and air and when they did land they weren't clean or had no power (or both). again i praise him for his chin, with the caveat that if he'd fought someone in his weight class that wasn't 40 he was getting sparked inside of 5, and i praise him for his defensive work from the outside in like, the first 3 rounds - again, with the caveat that floyd STILL landed 50 percent of his punches in those rounds and all of floyds punches were cleaner and more effective.

please, someone call me delusional now.

 

[MorrisonJay]

Conor has never been knocked out, so his chin was not what impressed me. A lot of Conor fans talk about the first few rounds, but considering floyd was hardly throwing a punch, that did not impress me.

What impressed me was when Floyd actually started boxing, Conor was still connecting. Conor wasted too many shots punching Floyd gloves and too many rabbit punches. Conor was not great on the inside, but this for me is lack of boxing experience.

I believe Conor done well with what he had. And nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[somemark]

What impressed me was when Floyd actually started boxing, Conor was still connecting.

with no power and at a very low rate, which is why i said "its like we watched different fights". he was connecting with arm punches that hit mostly gloves or shoulders and he didn't or couldn't sit down on any of them. that isn't "impressive" in my book, but i'm just an irrational hater. and "conor was not great on the inside" is an understatement. he was lost when he couldn't control distance.

 

[MorrisonJay]

with no power and at a very low rate, which is why i said "its like we watched different fights". he was connecting with arm punches that hit mostly gloves or shoulders and he didn't or couldn't sit down on any of them. that isn't "impressive" in my book, but i'm just an irrational hater. and "conor was not great on the inside" is an understatement. he was lost when he couldn't control distance.

It was obvious that Conor did not hit Floyd with and power punches. You could say his hardest was the uppercut. You can tell watching the fight that Conor is not s boxer, was obviously missing the skills needed to box. But he did better than I thought. Did not think he would be connecting right up to round nine.

Nothing wrong with what you are saying. We are all going to have different opinions. I just cannot stand the clueless haters who are only here for one reason, and that is bash Conor. Not boxing fans, not mma fans. Just obsessed with conor.

 

[Shinobi]

1-Please post where I said that? I never said that. So how can you prove me wrong with something I did not say?

Of course it is possible! Please, post where I said that!

2- Sorry, meant Conor. So, let me get this straight. You believe Conor is a c level boxer would know all the areas of boxing, but needs experience to get to the best of his ability.

Clearly Conor is not a c level boxer!

3- Well, maybe you should read what I said! I said the Penn is notorious for being a quick learner. Like i said, it normally takes 10 years to get you're black belt. And I also said these kind of people are few and far between.

What makes you think Conor should be one of these people?

You're right, you didn't say those exact words, but you keep talking about how boxers have to go through the amateur ranks before turning pro, which they don't, and that you need to be an experienced fighter to be able to have success against experienced fighters, bla, bla, bla, sweet science, bla, bla, bla. It's all bullshit. There are way too many examples of great pro boxers with no or very few amateur fights and boxers with just a few years of training beating much experienced boxers.

I believe Conor could maybe beat some C level boxers, if he had a decent size advantage over them. But a lot of C level boxers are not that great. That's why they're C level and not A level.

For the last time: I never said Conor was going to beat Floyd, i never gave him a chance, i never said absolutely nothing along those lines. And yet, you keep defending the idea that it is ridiculous to think Conor would have a chance. It's like you're debating with yourself. You're certainly not arguing against anything i have ever said, since all i said until now about Conor is that he was going to lose very easily, even being younger and bigger. I always said that wouldn't matter. I always said he would lose anyway. So wtf are you bitching about?

1- I think Conor is a quick learner and did better than most MMA fighters would have done.

2- I think that even though he did better than most would have done, he still didn't do good. He was outclassed on every level.

3- It's very unlikely that anyone with an extensive boxing career would ever be a threat to a high level boxer. Though unlikely, it can happen, and it has happened. But Conor never gave me any indication that he could be one of those rare cases.

4- Since i'm in this forum that i tell everyone that Conor has little to no chance of winning.

So, this is basically what i think about Conor and the situation. I don't understand why you keep talking about Conor not having enough experience to beat Floyd when that was my main point since ever. It's like you're debating against someone else.

 

[MorrisonJay]

You're right, you didn't say those exact words, but you keep talking about how boxers have to go through the amateur ranks before turning pro, which they don't, and that you need to be an experienced fighter to be able to have success against experienced fighters, bla, bla, bla, sweet science, bla, bla, bla. It's all bullshit. There are way too many examples of great pro boxers with no or very few amateur fights and boxers with just a few years of training beating much experienced boxers.

I believe Conor could maybe beat some C level boxers, if he had a decent size advantage over them. But a lot of C level boxers are not that great. That's why they're C level and not A level.

For the last time: I never said Conor was going to beat Floyd, i never gave him a chance, i never said absolutely nothing along those lines. And yet, you keep defending the idea that it is ridiculous to think Conor would have a chance. It's like you're debating with yourself. You're certainly not arguing against anything i have ever said, since all i said until now about Conor is that he was going to lose very easily, even being younger and bigger. I always said that wouldn't matter. I always said he would lose anyway. So wtf are you bitching about?

1- I think Conor is a quick learner and did better than most MMA fighters would have done.

2- I think that even though he did better than most would have done, he still didn't do good. He was outclassed on every level.

3- It's very unlikely that anyone with an extensive boxing career would ever be a threat to a high level boxer. Though unlikely, it can happen, and it has happened. But Conor never gave me any indication that he could be one of those rare cases.

4- Since i'm in this forum that i tell everyone that Conor has little to no chance of winning.

So, this is basically what i think about Conor and the situation. I don't understand why you keep talking about Conor not having enough experience to beat Floyd when that was my main point since ever. It's like you're debating against someone else.

Because you kept on posting over and over again the same crap! Conor got beat by a forty year old, Conor got best by someone with brittle hands, Conor got beat by someone who has not had a fight in 2 years etc

Over over over. You did not add anything else. Hence the reason I brought up that you cannot box a very experienced fighter, when you are not a boxer.

All those fighters you mentioned, and there are a few more, are rare cases. But I guarantee you, they trained in boxing for many years. You will not get a pro licence just by saying you want to box! You need to convince that you can box.

But most of these would have started at the bottom, and worked there way up the top. What do you think would happen if someone who turned pro, first fight was against a top five in the division? Chances are, they will lose.

Conor is not a c level boxer. A c level boxer knows feet movement, head movement, technique etc They have all the attributes of a world class fighter,but just cannot go that extra level. Maybe they don't have the talent and have reached their full potential.

Conor does not have boxing head movement, footwork. Working on the inside, not even a boxing clinch.

So how can you call him a c level fighter?

Take this on board, and Conor did not do as bad as haters are making out. Even though he did not have the basic attributes of a boxer, he still managed to go 10 rounds with one of the greatest, if not the greatest boxer in the world.

I do not agree that Conor won all these rounds some people are saying. I would give him three at the mist. But he was connecting with Floyd right up to round nine.

To me, he has nothing to be ashamed about.

 

[Shinobi]

Because you kept on posting over and over again the same crap! Conor got beat by a forty year old, Conor got best by someone with brittle hands, Conor got beat by someone who has not had a fight in 2 years etc

Over over over. You did not add anything else. Hence the reason I brought up that you cannot box a very experienced fighter, when you are not a boxer.

All those fighters you mentioned, and there are a few more, are rare cases. But I guarantee you, they trained in boxing for many years. You will not get a pro licence just by saying you want to box! You need to convince that you can box.

But most of these would have started at the bottom, and worked there way up the top. What do you think would happen if someone who turned pro, first fight was against a top five in the division? Chances are, they will lose.

Conor is not a c level boxer. A c level boxer knows feet movement, head movement, technique etc They have all the attributes of a world class fighter,but just cannot go that extra level. Maybe they don't have the talent and have reached their full potential.

Conor does not have boxing head movement, footwork. Working on the inside, not even a boxing clinch.

So how can you call him a c level fighter?

Take this on board, and Conor did not do as bad as haters are making out. Even though he did not have the basic attributes of a boxer, he still managed to go 10 rounds with one of the greatest, if not the greatest boxer in the world.

I do not agree that Conor won all these rounds some people are saying. I would give him three at the mist. But he was connecting with Floyd right up to round nine.

To me, he has nothing to be ashamed about.

Conor did lose to someone who is 40 and hasn't trained for 2 years and has serious hand problems. I'm just stating a fact. He said he was going to beat an old man and i'm saying he got beat by an old man. I know that old man is Floyd, but still, the fact that he got beat by a guy who is 40 and barely trains only accentuates what i've been saying since the beginning, which is: Conor is so far from Floyd's level that even the worst version of Floyd can beat him.

Now, you don't understand that this is my response to everyone who claimed Conor was going to beat Floyd because Floyd is old. You're just so fucking dumb that you think i'm somehow insinuating that because Floyd is 40 he could lose to Conor. What i'm saying is exactly the opposite and you seem to fail to understand something as simple as that.

But again, you were still debating that it was a legal blow when everyone was already convinced it was illegal. That's how fucking dense you are.

You should direct your attention to someone else because i was always one of those giving Conor no more than 1% chance.

It's funny that you clame you know so much about boxing, and yet, you didn't even think Floyd would KO Conor. You thought this guy with no pro boxing experience would survive 12 rounds with Floyd. The worst version of Floyd stopped him. Imagine if this had been Prime Floyd vs Conor.