Unpopular S&C Beliefs

[yookfarb]

If you have serious back problems from squatting/deadlifting, you have horrible genetics, embarrassingly awful form, or you're a massive pussy.

There is a lot of truth behind the sterotype that MMA fighters are average athletes.

 

[ens189]

Deads are the most useless thing for takedowns, this coming from a former college judoka.

I'm referring to wrestling style takedowns. They've helped me quite a bit, Hendricks has said he believes they are vital as well.

 

[RafailNadull]

You dont need to stop doing something because you wont be the best, thats a stupid way to look at life, if genius is 99% work 1% talent, then you can be 99% of a genius, even if you are talentless.

Except that talent is much more important than 1%. Think really hard about something with Newton's talent and you might invent calculus and change the world. Think equally hard about something with Joe Schmoe's talent and you will pass a high school math exam with a C.

If your goal when you are starting is to be a world champ, then you already failed.

My post was about how delusion can be good for you, so I don't necessarily disagree.

But if you dont try you are 100% sure to fail, whats the point?

Effort has an opportunity cost. Failing is very costly.

So because a gold bar is 18k its a hunk of shit?

Fact is that most people can get into the top 1% of population if they put the effort, just because they can be the 0.0001% individual at the top it doesnt means the effort is worthless.

Ill take an IF diamond on my hand over an F diamond buried somewhere 3km below earth surface.

They cannot possibly get into the top 1% of the population if they all put in the effort at the same time, much like it's not possible for most to be better than the median.

But even if they didn't all go for it, that's false because talented people gravitate towards the rewarding tasks so if you don't have any talent, no amount of effort will get you to a level, relative to the others, that's rewarding.


You're right about the effort not necessarily being worthless. You might be perfectly happy being shit in a relative sense as long as you're giving it your all. Whatever makes one happy.

 

[Rod1]

I'm referring to wrestling style takedowns. They've helped me quite a bit, Hendricks has said he believes they are vital as well.

What wrestling style takedowns favor the posterior chain over the quads? I did judo when we had wrestling style takedowns. Only greco reverse body lift that i can think off will have direct carryover.

 

[AggieBoy]

Yes, there is a huge counterpoint to genetics.

You dont need to stop doing something because you wont be the best, thats a stupid way to look at life, if genius is 99% work 1% talent, then you can be 99% of a genius, even if you are talentless.

If your goal when you are starting is to be a world champ, then you already failed.

World champ of what though? The more people play a particular sport the more genetics matter. Not many people had chance to play with Lebron or JJ Watt at birth. I think something like table tennis or BJJ is more a measure of hard work. The less popular, the less chance of genetic freaks.

Success and sports is meaningless though. A guy that goes 1st in the NFL draft, destroys his knee on the first snap and never plays again is hardly a failure at football. You can't define success as you are either Michael Jordan or a failure.

You have to play a sport for the personal winning moments. Even if you are the underdog then winning is that much better.

 

[AggieBoy]

What wrestling style takedowns favor the posterior chain over the quads? I did judo when we had wrestling style takedowns. Only greco reverse body lift that i can think off will have direct carryover.

You can't just disregard the speed of the lift too.
1 rep DL at 97% has no wattage. Absolute strength is the best way to increase speed-strength and strength-speed but you have to also train to output max wattage as the focus. There is no reason that doing slow dead lifts would help most sports unless you are new and just need any absolute strength you can get.

 

[redaxe]

Why do you disagree? I notice it helps alot when trying to isolate things, I'm a very top heavy grappler though.



I think deads are the most important for takedowns, where else have you noticed them carrying over?

Posture. Breaking open the closed guard. Passing guard. Grip strength. Finishing submissions. Hip bump escapes.

A strong back and powerful hip extension is a huge asset to a grappler.

 

[redaxe]

What wrestling style takedowns favor the posterior chain over the quads? I did judo when we had wrestling style takedowns. Only greco reverse body lift that i can think off will have direct carryover.

In my experience lack of quad strength is never the reason why a takedown doesn't work.

Takedowns fail because your timing is off or because your posture sucks and you get sprawled on and flattened or crossfaced and peeled off.

Having a strong back helps you keep more upright posture when you shoot, and not get flattened when the guy tries to sprawl.

Not to say that squats are any worse than deadlifts for this purpose. They both help. But as a grappler I have never ever been in a situation where I felt that my technique didn't work because my quads weren't strong enough.

 

[JosephDredd]

What wrestling style takedowns favor the posterior chain over the quads? I did judo when we had wrestling style takedowns. Only greco reverse body lift that i can think off will have direct carryover.

This is my main takedown off the arm drag and it's dat hip pop all day long. Pure posterior chain.

High crotch, too.

 

[Rod1]

In my experience lack of quad strength is never the reason why a takedown doesn't work.

Takedowns fail because your timing is off or because your posture sucks and you get sprawled on and flattened or crossfaced and peeled off.

The entry and execution of the move is always on the ball of your feet, not on the heels like the deadlift.

Having a strong back helps you keep more upright posture when you shoot, and not get flattened when the guy tries to sprawl.

The ability to balance a workload in your chest/upperback while keeping a narrow stance and enough depth is more important in keeping posture than raw lower back strength, high-bar squat and front squats helps train more those stabilizers than the deadlift.

Not to say that squats are any worse than deadlifts for this purpose. They both help. But as a grappler I have never ever been in a situation where I felt that my technique didn't work because my quads weren't strong enough.

Its a compound movement, of course everything is going to fall apart in different places, the point is however that the way you generate power to finish a takedown is in a position that you cant generate shit if you were deadlifting.

 

[ens189]

Posture. Breaking open the closed guard. Passing guard. Grip strength. Finishing submissions. Hip bump escapes.

A strong back and powerful hip extension is a huge asset to a grappler.

Makes sense. Like you said, glad we don't have to choose just one. All three are vital imo.

 

[Rod1]

This is my main takedown off the arm drag and it's dat hip pop all day long. Pure posterior chain.

High crotch, too.

Not hating on the guy but you can easily tell how someone teaching in a video is a total amateur, one of the most important aspects of standup grappling is the footwork and the video is not big enough to capture the footwork.

If you talk about suplexing in general, again power is generated through the ball of the feet, here is a kolat video, its not deadlifting, is more like halfsquating

[YT]JeyZJpKEK1s[/YT]

Here is the high crotch, while here the posture is more open, Kolat is still leaning forward and the power comes from the ball of the feet while your weight is leaning forward.

[YT]HmqngOVBwMw[/YT]

BJJ is a whole different animal and as people said being able to keep posture against someone pulling you down in guard is gold.

 

[Rod1]

Except that talent is much more important than 1%. Think really hard about something with Newton's talent and you might invent calculus and change the world. Think equally hard about something with Joe Schmoe's talent and you will pass a high school math exam with a C.

The brain is a quite different animal since its potential is geometric in nature, physical abilities are constrained by pretty severe and solid mechanical limitations.

Anyway, a Newton in sub-saharan africa wouldnt had invented calculus.

My post was about how delusion can be good for you, so I don't necessarily disagree

Its not much about dellusion but setting your goals straigth.

Effort has an opportunity cost. Failing is very costly.

Depends on what your goals are, if its making money, i totally agree that if you are not naturally gifted you better make use of that sport scholarship to get a good education instead of trying to become a pro.

They cannot possibly get into the top 1% of the population if they all put in the effort at the same time, much like it's not possible for most to be better than the median.

You assume the entire population will put the 99% effort, they dont, there are tons of physically gifted individuals working white collar, eating pizza and watching TV all day.

But even if they didn't all go for it, that's false because talented people gravitate towards the rewarding tasks so if you don't have any talent, no amount of effort will get you to a level, relative to the others, that's rewarding.

Didnt the Botero guy discovered his talent by mere chance? Rewards dont need to be about competition, it can be as a personal challenge? how many people here can squat 600lbs? how many can bench 500lbs? i bet not many and those are just average numbers at the elite scene of powerlifting, why is anyone here lifting if you wont even be near breaking world records?

ou're right about the effort not necessarily being worthless. You might be perfectly happy being shit in a relative sense as long as you're giving it your all. Whatever makes one happy.

So with that line of thinking ill assume 3 options about you

1.- You are an elite superstart at some sport, i dont think its MMA because you would be famous here, but maybe you are in the top 5 of a powerlifting circuit?

2.- You are a couch potato not doing anything in life because you wont get to be the best at anything

3.- You are a complete hypocrite, claiming that its better not trying than not being world class at something. Yet you lift, train and do several things where you are not even in the top 100.

 

[JosephDredd]

Not hating on the guy but you can easily tell how someone teaching in a video is a total amateur, one of the most important aspects of standup grappling is the footwork and the video is not big enough to capture the footwork.

If you talk about suplexing in general, again power is generated through the ball of the feet, here is a kolat video, its not deadlifting, is more like halfsquating

[YT]JeyZJpKEK1s[/YT]

Here is the high crotch, while here the posture is more open, Kolat is still leaning forward and the power comes from the ball of the feet while your weight is leaning forward.

[YT]HmqngOVBwMw[/YT]

BJJ is a whole different animal and as people said being able to keep posture against someone pulling you down in guard is gold.

All I've got is my personal experience and the way I was taught was exactly like popping your hips forward in a kettlebell swing. Once I started training the 106lbs kb I got some sick airtime on the biggest guys in the gym. I was the only guy who could them over my shoulders

 

[Synapse]

Is it just me, or was the story of the dude who picked up a bike on a whim and posted a WR time offered as a "counter point" to genetics?

Its interesting to think about how many lance armstrongs are out there who are chugging natty ice in front of the tv when they could actually do something and do it well.

On a triathon form I was a member of they had a thread that was like "before and after you got into triathlons". there was one in particular of a guy who must have weighed 350lbs, just a total fat ass, not a muscular guy at all, a total blob. his after picture was him finishing the Hawaii Ironman in like 9:10...literally less than 30 minutes behind the pros during one of the hottest windiest race days in history. out of 3000 people, he was like 35th....and a lean mean 5'10, 150lb guy.

He had it all along but he had to want it and find the motivation in himself to do it. I wonder how many guys out there could really put a mark in the books if they had the motiation...

It wasn't at all a counter point against the validity of genetic gifts; I'm not sure how I gave you that impression. What I was trying to say is that it's a cop-out for a lazy 400 lbs dude to say "well I'm just genetically disadvantaged, I could never be successful" when he has NO idea if that's true. Same thing with academics or any other walk of life. I've known a great deal of people (again, I work with a lot of high schoolers) who just assume they weren't given genetic gifts without having the slightest idea whether that's true or not.

 

[Rod1]

The counter point is that people often assume that they're not at the top because they aren't genetically gifted, yet they've never put themselves in a place where they'd ever truly know. I've known a great deal of people who just assume they weren't given genetic gifts without having the slightest idea whether that's true or not.

Thats exactly my point, talent is the feather that tips the scale at the top because pretty much everyone is training like madmen at the top.

But for the vast majority of the population what sorts the average from the elite is the effort put.

 

[Rod1]

All I've got is my personal experience and the way I was taught was exactly like popping your hips forward in a kettlebell swing. Once I started training the 106lbs kb I got some sick airtime on the biggest guys in the gym. I was the only guy who could them over my shoulders

A kettlebell swing is not a deadlift.

 

[JosephDredd]

A kettlebell swing is not a deadlift.

That's exactly how it's taught at the RKC.

 

[yookfarb]

Except that talent is much more important than 1%. Think really hard about something with Newton's talent and you might invent calculus and change the world. Think equally hard about something with Joe Schmoe's talent and you will pass a high school math exam with a C.


My post was about how delusion can be good for you, so I don't necessarily disagree.


Effort has an opportunity cost. Failing is very costly.




They cannot possibly get into the top 1% of the population if they all put in the effort at the same time, much like it's not possible for most to be better than the median.

But even if they didn't all go for it, that's false because talented people gravitate towards the rewarding tasks so if you don't have any talent, no amount of effort will get you to a level, relative to the others, that's rewarding.


You're right about the effort not necessarily being worthless. You might be perfectly happy being shit in a relative sense as long as you're giving it your all. Whatever makes one happy.

I wonder if Newton would have been able to invent Calculus if he was born in Africa to a drug addict mother. Maybe his talent would have been able to pull him through if he 'thought about it really hard'.

People need to get it in their heads that genetics, nature, nurture, work ethic, intelligence and passion are not these easily quantifiable figures that are exclusive to one another like stats in a video game. In fact, they are completely interconnected and completely intangible.

That's why people live out their lives. People will never know who the best or most 'talented' person was at any given thing until it doesn't matter anymore.

And if a lot of people completely dedicate their lives to a single goal and only one person succeeds while everyone else is either miserable or dead, the world is better off for it in the end.

 

[redaxe]

The entry and execution of the move is always on the ball of your feet, not on the heels like the deadlift.



The ability to balance a workload in your chest/upperback while keeping a narrow stance and enough depth is more important in keeping posture than raw lower back strength, high-bar squat and front squats helps train more those stabilizers than the deadlift.



Its a compound movement, of course everything is going to fall apart in different places, the point is however that the way you generate power to finish a takedown is in a position that you cant generate shit if you were deadlifting.

When you do barbell squats, do you squat on the balls of your feet Rod1?