Unpopular S&C Beliefs

[bowlie]

THeres also epigenetics which is another interesting tpic all its own. Meaning that often times what a parent does can in fact transfer to the children not genes but actual physical changes that happen with the parents.

Joe rogan was recently talking about watching his 8 year old daughter pull great BJJ moves on her friend while just playing around.

My dad was a stud athlete, I think Im good at sports but my dad was the man, running back at Michigan state Uni, army ranger baseball player, played competetive hockey into his 50s, deadlifs more than me, at 63 still runs like 10k a day. I probably got some if it from him.

A bit of a twist to the story though is that my dad was born with polio in 1951, had early treatments that left him deaf in one ear, he started working out to help his balance, his father also had him help with extra farm work to strengthen his crippled legs. Eventually he turned into a well develped guy who played football at 6"4 240lbs and pretty lean and made it to a very high level as well as an elite army unit. Al from a crippled kid.

He still deads over 500 and is able to get out and do solid runs and bowhunt all day long. People that meet him think he's in his mid 40s even thouth he's in his 60s. and from where he started, its pretty impressive IMO.

This is something I have come accross, but i thought the consensus was that it was bollocks?

 

[aus101]

The AIS (australian institute of sport) has done something like that, just not on the DNA level (yet). They used to go to high schools across the country and scout people. If they scored well across a battery of tests (anthropometry, beep test, vertical jump, agility) they'd be progressed to another stage of testing, then directed to the AIS to see mould them into an athlete in a given sport. Similarly, there was a group of netballers (i think) years ago who were transformed into rowers because they had huge lung capacity, long arms and good upper body strength. I believe they medalled at one of the Olympics.

There's a female athlete, Kim crow, who had to stop track because of shin sprints who has become a great rower.

The AIS does test for potential, I'd be surprised if a strong upper body was an important factor (although the AIS does test, albeit badly designed, push and pull tests for the upper body for rowers). Other than in the last part of the stroke the upper body doesn't really do much during rowing (and the pushing muscles don't do anything at all, with the shoulders being barely used as well). It's pretty much all legs.

Top netballers transfer over to rowing extremely well though as you mentioned, tall, huge lungs and long arms is the prototypical rowers build.

 

[Codger]

This is something I have come accross, but i thought the consensus was that it was bollocks?

Epigenetics is very real but whether it's that direct and obvious is another matter. There is another possible explanation for being good at sport like your dad was and that obviously is that you share some of the same genes.

 

[Was Exiled]

Bench is the most important lift in BJJ.

I disagree, I do think squat is the least important of the big three for BJJ though.

 

[aus101]

Continued strength training matters very little to fighters who have established a strength base.

Every athlete does not need to squat.

So you are saying once you are strong you do not need to continue strength training? Not even to maintain current strength levels?

Numerous MMA coaches believe maintaining strength through low rep compound movements is needed. Any sport that requires strength has many believers of this method and discontinuing strength training results in past prime fedor. (unless he was actually using in pride and the decline in muscle mass and performance was due to discontinuing usage due to testing In the states, although I feel the official story of "he stopped lifting weights" certainly appears believable enough when comparing his vastly differing physiques).

 

[NurseKnuckles]

A good strength programming will have heavy work in there at some point in your season/post season. The exercises are not the issue. All athletes should be doing a form of squat, pull and press.

 

[PickupPutdown]

Past around 45 degrees, your erector spinae shut off.

 

[DrBdan]

THeres also epigenetics which is another interesting tpic all its own. Meaning that often times what a parent does can in fact transfer to the children not genes but actual physical changes that happen with the parents.

Joe rogan was recently talking about watching his 8 year old daughter pull great BJJ moves on her friend while just playing around.

My dad was a stud athlete, I think Im good at sports but my dad was the man, running back at Michigan state Uni, army ranger baseball player, played competetive hockey into his 50s, deadlifs more than me, at 63 still runs like 10k a day. I probably got some if it from him.

A bit of a twist to the story though is that my dad was born with polio in 1951, had early treatments that left him deaf in one ear, he started working out to help his balance, his father also had him help with extra farm work to strengthen his crippled legs. Eventually he turned into a well develped guy who played football at 6"4 240lbs and pretty lean and made it to a very high level as well as an elite army unit. Al from a crippled kid.

He still deads over 500 and is able to get out and do solid runs and bowhunt all day long. People that meet him think he's in his mid 40s even thouth he's in his 60s. and from where he started, its pretty impressive IMO.

Sounds like your Dad traded in polio for swolio.

hey-ooo I'm here all week folks!

(seriously though that's a great story about overcoming a huge obstacle, polio is srsbzns)

 

[redaxe]

I disagree, I do think squat is the least important of the big three for BJJ though.

BJJ brown belt here. If I had to pick one lift for the purpose of improving strength for BJJ it would be deadlift. No question.

Fortunately, I don't have to pick just one.

 

[fbmmofo]

As I said in thread recently the genetics side of performance really interests me. There was a female rower for Great Britain at London 2012 who only got into rowing like 3 years earlier after going through a programme designed to get tall women into sport. I think she was at uni at the time. Not as an extreme example as the Chinese stuff but still good.

I think the current trend for genetics to be almost down played is because you don't want to then people off before they've even got started. If someone came here and said " I need advise on how to get stronger for xxx" and all the answers were " well your genetics will determine your strength level, based on your muscle fibre, limb length etc" people would very quickly give up hope.

 

[Was Exiled]

BJJ brown belt here. If I had to pick one lift for the purpose of improving strength for BJJ it would be deadlift. No question.

Fortunately, I don't have to pick just one.

Agreed. 2 stripe white belt here, so you know that I know what I'm talking about. Jokes aside I do feel upperbody strength>lower body for grappling.

 

[Oblivian]

So you are saying once you are strong you do not need to continue strength training? Not even to maintain current strength levels?

Numerous MMA coaches believe maintaining strength through low rep compound movements is needed. Any sport that requires strength has many believers of this method and discontinuing strength training results in past prime fedor. (unless he was actually using in pride and the decline in muscle mass and performance was due to discontinuing usage due to testing In the states, although I feel the official story of "he stopped lifting weights" certainly appears believable enough when comparing his vastly differing physiques).

When I say an established strength base, that will likely be someone a hell of a lot stronger than the average MMA fighter. As a whole, strength training seems to matter very little to most MMA fighters. It is not a large part of their training, as it shouldn't be since the bulk of their training should be grappling, striking, and MMA training. If a fighter has what I'd consider an established strength base (again, stronger than most MMA fighters), they would be much better off working on other areas than maintaining that strength. I don't think their strength will diminish enough to where strength will be their weak point.

 

[MMouse]

When I say an established strength base, that will likely be someone a hell of a lot stronger than the average MMA fighter. As a whole, strength training seems to matter very little to most MMA fighters. It is not a large part of their training, as it shouldn't be since the bulk of their training should be grappling, striking, and MMA training. If a fighter has what I'd consider an established strength base (again, stronger than most MMA fighters), they would be much better off working on other areas than maintaining that strength. I don't think their strength will diminish enough to where strength will be their weak point.

I agree with this to an extent, depending on what the fighters weakness or strengths are, if strength is a major weak area then maintaining it to a minimum prior and/or during fight prep/camp on top of focusing and working on weak areas of skill would be even better. But at the end of day skill should be the top priority on the lists. Sometimes a fighter may want to take a break from skill outside of camp due to injuries or maybe a mental break so incorporating gpp exercises or any other sports activity or exercises to work on s&c areas can help out as well.

 

[ens189]

I disagree, I do think squat is the least important of the big three for BJJ though.

Why do you disagree? I notice it helps alot when trying to isolate things, I'm a very top heavy grappler though.

BJJ brown belt here. If I had to pick one lift for the purpose of improving strength for BJJ it would be deadlift. No question.

Fortunately, I don't have to pick just one.

I think deads are the most important for takedowns, where else have you noticed them carrying over?

 

[Was Exiled]

Why do you disagree? I notice it helps alot when trying to isolate things, I'm a very top heavy grappler though.

I disagree because I think deads are more important, followed closely by bench. Again I'm kind of a noob in S and C but I found improving deads helped my BJJ more than bench.

I think deads are the most important for takedowns, where else have you noticed them carrying over?

I would imagine that things such as posture in guard, fighting for underhooks - deadlifts help more with.

 

[oyaji poi]

This is a great counter point to the genetics talk, where you usually see people citing poor genetics as a barrier to success. I believe that genetic advantages absolutely play a huge part at the top levels. Most people just assume they aren't gifted, when it may easily be buried under 50 lbs of fat and 10 years of being sedentary.

The best diamonds look like hunks of shit until they're refined. So many people assume they're destined to be a hunk of shit rather than making the effort to refine themselves into something amazing. That's true of any walk of life, not just sports.

Well, that and not many people are willing to make the sacrifices needed to fully express their genetic potential. Practicing the same sport day in, day out. Travelling away from family and friends for competition and turning pro. Some people with amazing genetic potential for power output for example may simply prefer to study physics even if they only get B+ and -A when they study really hard.

 

[RafailNadull]

This is a great counter point to the genetics talk, where you usually see people citing poor genetics as a barrier to success. I believe that genetic advantages absolutely play a huge part at the top levels. Most people just assume they aren't gifted, when it may easily be buried under 50 lbs of fat and 10 years of being sedentary.

The best diamonds look like hunks of shit until they're refined. So many people assume they're destined to be a hunk of shit rather than making the effort to refine themselves into something amazing. That's true of any walk of life, not just sports.

It's not a counterpoint at all. The genetics talk is about how a huge determinant of success is biological endowment. Botero had great talent and great talent is rare, and rewarding. Lucky guy.

Still, sometimes, we want people to be deluded about their chances of success, or how good they can be. People with business ideas for instance. Most of them will fail, and on average, they come out losers, but as long as they can sustain the delusion that they are different than all those failure, they'll keep going. And some of them succeed and give us innovations.

With sport it could be similar. It might be good for one's mentality to be a positive thinker. To relentlessly think you can be a diamond when in reality you will always be a hunk of shit regardless of effort.

 

[Rod1]

Why do you disagree? I notice it helps alot when trying to isolate things, I'm a very top heavy grappler though.



I think deads are the most important for takedowns, where else have you noticed them carrying over?

Deads are the most useless thing for takedowns, this coming from a former college judoka.

 

[Rod1]

It's not a counterpoint at all. The genetics talk is about how a huge determinant of success is biological endowment. Botero had great talent and great talent is rare, and rewarding. Lucky guy.

Yes, there is a huge counterpoint to genetics.

You dont need to stop doing something because you wont be the best, thats a stupid way to look at life, if genius is 99% work 1% talent, then you can be 99% of a genius, even if you are talentless.

If your goal when you are starting is to be a world champ, then you already failed.

Still, sometimes, we want people to be deluded about their chances of success, or how good they can be. People with business ideas for instance. Most of them will fail, and on average, they come out losers, but as long as they can sustain the delusion that they are different than all those failure, they'll keep going. And some of them succeed and give us innovations.

But if you dont try you are 100% sure to fail, whats the point?

With sport it could be similar. It might be good for one's mentality to be a positive thinker. To relentlessly think you can be a diamond when in reality you will always be a hunk of shit regardless of effort.

So because a gold bar is 18k its a hunk of shit?

Fact is that most people can get into the top 1% of population if they put the effort, just because they can be the 0.0001% individual at the top it doesnt means the effort is worthless.

Ill take an IF diamond on my hand over an F diamond buried somewhere 3km below earth surface.

 

[miaou]

Is it just me, or was the story of the dude who picked up a bike on a whim and posted a WR time offered as a "counter point" to genetics?