Unpopular S&C Beliefs

When you do barbell squats, do you squat on the balls of your feet Rod1?

When i squat the weight is perfectly balanced between the ball of the feet and the heels, therefore if i wanted to turn the squat motion into a jump i could easily do so, not so much with the deadlift.

Have you ever tried to deadlift with weightlifting shoes?

You can see what im trying to explain here

 
Ridiculous to claim that wrestling takedowns don't involve a massive amount of hamstring, glute, and back strength requirements.

Especially at higher levels.
 
Ridiculous to claim that wrestling takedowns don't involve a massive amount of hamstring, glute, and back strength requirements.

Especially at higher levels.

Well Rod1 has a lot of unpopular S&C beliefs so it's like this thread was made for him.
 
Ehhhhhhh


The same Mike Boyle who says that aerobic system training is useless for hockey players, and then in his program layout for hockey, the first method is.....tempo intervals.

Which is for training the aerobic system.

I'm sure he's pretty decent at putting together programs and adjusting for athletes, but I don't think he knows how to analyze a text well at all, which is kind of important for reading about other coach's methods, and he thinks he literally invented being a strength and conditioning coach.


Boyle says alot of weird stuff for sure, but after watching his seminars its obvious he has a ton of knowledge about all S&C related.
Also he is known for making absolute statements and then aa year later do a total 180turn.
Everyone makes mistakes but he is willing to admit he does them and then learn and move on.
 
Ridiculous to claim that wrestling takedowns don't involve a massive amount of hamstring, glute, and back strength requirements.

Especially at higher levels.

Not on the level that would warrant using the deadlift, glutes, hamstring and back would be developed with regular olympic squats and cleans.

Neither the judo coaches i trained with, nor the wrestling coaches who trained next to us used deadlifts in any way. The closest was clean pulls.

I can safely tell you this, deadlifts are nothing like suplexing an individual.
 
Rod1 owns this thread.

For insinuating that olympic lifts may be better suited for sports where power generation and explosiveness >>> raw strength?

I even tried to come with counter examples of olympic grapplers or wrestlers deadlifting as part of their olympic training and the best i came up was this

[YT]ovxR7JKh76Y#t=48[/YT]

Satoshi Ishii doing some quarter deadlifts as part of his training.

Maybe you guys could produce some evidence that deadlifting is common among olympic wrestlers and judokas.
 
For insinuating that olympic lifts may be better suited for sports where power generation and explosiveness >>> raw strength?

I even tried to come with counter examples of olympic grapplers or wrestlers deadlifting as part of their olympic training and the best i came up was this

[YT]ovxR7JKh76Y#t=48[/YT]

Satoshi Ishii doing some quarter deadlifts as part of his training.

Maybe you guys could produce some evidence that deadlifting is common among olympic wrestlers and judokas.

 
I love the idea behind this thread, though I got too excited to post before I read the whole thing. Here's a few things:

-As the miaou stated, the majority of S&C research is useless. It's performed on subjects that don't give you any useful results.

-I will take that even further. S&C itself is almost useless for athletes.

-Bodyweight variations are the best way to develop upper body strength. You get similar strength, built in prehab, and superior motor learning (imo).

-Consistency is one of the two most important important factors for improvement. I've coached state level track athletes on training regimens of 3-4 days per week while they made stupid improvements.

-Volume is the second most important factor in improvement. If you want to be high level at anything you need insane volume.

-To follow up, low volume is the way to go in the beginning. I think volume is like drugs. The more you've done, the less it affects you. So be careful of ramping it up right away, even if you might see marginally better improvements.

-Improvements rates are predictable, repeatable, and the key indicator of talent. All my data and references are too much for this post, but a year of hard training should tell you all you need to know about their talent.

-Talent is the #1 factor in athletic success. Everyone "works hard."

-The right regime works for everyone. You aren't a special snowflake
 
I love the idea behind this thread, though I got too excited to post before I read the whole thing. Here's a few things:

-As the miaou stated, the majority of S&C research is useless. It's performed on subjects that don't give you any useful results.

-I will take that even further. S&C itself is almost useless for athletes.

-Bodyweight variations are the best way to develop upper body strength. You get similar strength, built in prehab, and superior motor learning (imo).

-Consistency is one of the two most important important factors for improvement. I've coached state level track athletes on training regimens of 3-4 days per week while they made stupid improvements.

-Volume is the second most important factor in improvement. If you want to be high level at anything you need insane volume.

-To follow up, low volume is the way to go in the beginning. I think volume is like drugs. The more you've done, the less it affects you. So be careful of ramping it up right away, even if you might see marginally better improvements.

-Improvements rates are predictable, repeatable, and the key indicator of talent. All my data and references are too much for this post, but a year of hard training should tell you all you need to know about their talent.

-Talent is the #1 factor in athletic success. Everyone "works hard."

-The right regime works for everyone. You aren't a special snowflake

What do you mean by "talent"?
 
Oh boy. Not an outliers reader!

Ha! I'm familiar with the concept, haven't read that book though. I'm just wondering what he means by it in a sport/athletics context.

Is it the ability to attain a certain achievement standard within a given training programme? For example reaching a 1000lb total after 6 months of powerlifting training.

Or picking up a skill set quicker and applying skills more consistently - like in soccer or golf for example.
 
Ha! I'm familiar with the concept, haven't read that book though. I'm just wondering what he means by it in a sport/athletics context.

Is it the ability to attain a certain achievement standard within a given training programme? For example reaching a 1000lb total after 6 months of powerlifting training.

Or picking up a skill set quicker and applying skills more consistently - like in soccer or golf for example.

It's multifaceted and different between sports. So for example, in track and field I can measure talent by the absolute performance attainable by an athlete, like a 10.0s 100m guy, or a 9.8s guy or a 10.2s guy. In something like judo or jiujitsu, or some other martial art we might talk about 'world champion' level, or 'world class' or 'national class. It's harder in sports with more skill.

Now if we are talking specifics, a great sprinter will have small feet, narrow hips, high calves, large muscle bellies, lots of fast twitch fibers, and great tendon attachments. But the absolute talent of an athlete can also be affected by things we can't measure by looking at them, like rate of improvement. You find kids all over the country that are fast, but don't improve year to year. Some of that is bad coaching, and some of that is 'lack of talent.' More specifically, they are already close to their maximum potential.

If you're around elite runners, after a while you notice they all look the same. When it comes to grapplers, you have a wider variation in what is acceptable, since you can use different techniques to fit your body type. Though you typically find grapplers are short (for their weight), strong (especially in the upper body), with wider hips, and t-rex limbs. Large muscle bellies are a must for almost any 'power' sport. Other things also start to matter like coordination, initiative, and spatial awareness. These things are harder to measure by looking at them, but you might see them with a hidden talent for tetris.
 
Though you typically find grapplers are short (for their weight), strong (especially in the upper body), with wider hips, and t-rex limbs.

That's me!


(aside from the upper body strength and grappling ability...)
 
It's multifaceted and different between sports. So for example, in track and field I can measure talent by the absolute performance attainable by an athlete, like a 10.0s 100m guy, or a 9.8s guy or a 10.2s guy. In something like judo or jiujitsu, or some other martial art we might talk about 'world champion' level, or 'world class' or 'national class. It's harder in sports with more skill.

Now if we are talking specifics, a great sprinter will have small feet, narrow hips, high calves, large muscle bellies, lots of fast twitch fibers, and great tendon attachments. But the absolute talent of an athlete can also be affected by things we can't measure by looking at them, like rate of improvement. You find kids all over the country that are fast, but don't improve year to year. Some of that is bad coaching, and some of that is 'lack of talent.' More specifically, they are already close to their maximum potential.

If you're around elite runners, after a while you notice they all look the same. When it comes to grapplers, you have a wider variation in what is acceptable, since you can use different techniques to fit your body type. Though you typically find grapplers are short (for their weight), strong (especially in the upper body), with wider hips, and t-rex limbs. Large muscle bellies are a must for almost any 'power' sport. Other things also start to matter like coordination, initiative, and spatial awareness. These things are harder to measure by looking at them, but you might see them with a hidden talent for tetris.

great post. i can see you've done your fair share of training. this is how you pick in cuba as well, for boxing.
 
I should've thought of this earlier when thinking unpopular S&C beliefs.

Just about anything by Tim Noakes. If he's said it, it's probably unpopular.
 
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