Universal/socialist healthcare is worse than what we have now

[MikeMcMann]

Canada's version of single payer (socialist) healthcare is good (not great) but still better than the US.

The models to aspire to are Germany, France, Britain, who provide the base line to all citizens Canada's does but also allows the free market competition and options for those who want to access it.


Why is Canada's model better than the US's?

You have to step back from this particularly discussion and understand first that our gov'ts are going to take a ton of money from us regardless. Just because the US citizens do not pay for a bloated bureaucracy delivering health care (like Canada does) does not mean the US citizens are paying less or saving money. If the gov't does not have to return some of the dollars to you that they take in the form of healthcare then they will spend it somewhere else on their special interests. So any time you can get the gov't to spend some of the taken money on you (giving it back to you in terms of service) that is a good thing.

You could argue the gov't should not do roads and highways and education and all sorts of other things as the private sector would do them better (and that is likely true) but that would not save you one penny the gov't would take from you. You would still pay the same taxes and that money would go to further bloat military, etc.

So if instead the US had a German like system which was paid for with taxpayer dollars for the single payer part that is a net benefit to all US citizens and particularly to the competitiveness of your corporations who have to a carry a much bigger burden for Health Care than competitive companies in other countries do. Getting a full German type system would not cost the US a single dollar more if dollars were simply re-allocated from the bloated military budget such that maybe the US only spends as much as the top next 5 nations combined instead of the top 8 as it now is.

So the reason the US would benefit with a universal healthcare system is that the citizens are and will continue to pay enough to cover it currently and in the future and if they do not get that money back in some sort of direct benefit the gov't will spend it on pet projects and just waste it. so quite frankly any time you can get the gov't to give you back some of your money in the term of a direct benefit to you, that otherwise reduces your costs or risks, you are better off than the opposite.

 

[curryjunkie]

Then move to Colombia, because they certainly have their shit together.

i dont have to move , i live in europe which has free universal healthcare thanks
this is exactly the sort of reply you get from a four year old who cant accept reality, you got your thread slapped round the head with undeniable facts and you're throwing a sherdog tantrum

 

[djacobox372]

The only people I know that have experienced both systems and prefer the US are the very wealthy.

As for wait times, when measured as a whole, the US has the worst wait times in the developed world. The only difference is that if you're wealthy you can skip the line.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

What's the issue? Looking to the charity of neighbors is well founded in conservative economic ideals.

Exactly.

Right wing solutions to healthcare involves begging. Got a serious and expensive medical problem? You better be likable enough, have a compelling enough case, have a case/condition that people can relate to, have a wide enough forum, have donors with deep enough pockets- among many, many other factors- in order to receive the money you need. If not, you die.

What a great system. But the libtards won't get it.

 

[VivaRevolution]

The US can't even run the VA right, Obamacare is in the shitter but socialists/communists supporters think we can run healthcare for 320+ million just fine with the power of government and unicorns.

As opposed to now, where our system will collapse the american economy and therefor the world economy if we do nothing?


I just don't think people get it. Keeping the system how it is, isn't a option.

 

[TheStruggle]

As opposed to now, where our system will collapse the american economy and therefor the world economy if we do nothing?


I just don't think people get it. Keeping the system how it is, isn't a option.

So Obamacare aka Government care has destroyed the system and the only answer is...more government

 

[cincymma79]

If I can have the kind of care I get now at say 2% of my income I'd go for it. That isn't what I'll get though

 

[mrln242]

Wrong!

 

[MacDuffle]

This is not to say our current healthcare situation is ide, but I'd rather pay a decent copay and have access to care whenever the fuсk I want, than to wait 6 months for an x ray and pay an assload of taxes to take care of all the sick people in the country. The overwhelming majority of people have healthcare through their job and Medicare is pretty good for the old folks. Show me examples of people being denied access to healthcare and we'll fight that injustice together.

You know nothing jon snow

 

[MacDuffle]

They should have never gone with Obamacare.

Why

(Good luck)

 

[Snake_Plissken]

All I wish upon you suckers is universal health care. Now bend over and take the taxman deep. You'll see it'sworth it.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

All I wish upon you suckers is universal health care. Now bend over and take the taxman deep. You'll see it'sworth it.

All I wish upon you suckers is privatized health care. Now bend over and take the collection agency man deep. You'll be paying on that reconstructed knee for another 20 years.

 

[Throttlehead]

So Obamacare aka Government care has destroyed the system and the only answer is...more government

So, Government is evil in setting up a healthcare system but insurance companies that do healthcare for profit are good?
You guys have been fed so much bullshit about UHC you have no clue how it actually works.
Why would you pay a middleman (insurance companies) huge profits to get healthcare? Why wouldn't you like the idea of buying meds as one buyer, which would decrease the costs by huge margins?

What do actually think the Government does that reflects on you seeing your GP and getting the tests and procedures done?

 

[MMA IAN]

Can someone explain what Americans mean when they say single payer? It's all I see but I'm not sure on the specifics.

Is it public healthcare with optional private? Do you pay towards the public or do you expect it to be completely covered by the government?

All I wish upon you suckers is privatized health care. Now bend over and take the collection agency man deep. You'll be paying on that reconstructed knee for another 20 years.

What do you mean man? you picked a great example to demonstrate ignorance. I have private health care, always have, broke my leg spectacularly last year and will require a knee replacement by the age of 40 due to the amount of cartilage I lost. The operation will cost 20-25,000, I'll be paying around 4,000 of that. Also get the usual private benefits, private room, better doctors, better nurses, better aftercare, overnight stays instead of day surgeries. I've already had surgeries public and private, public blows compared to private.

 

[ripskater]

Why

(Good luck)

Because it created more problems than it solved, created a whole new set of problems, and it is an unsustainable plan. And now we're back to square one because it is failing.

 

[WalkenWouldOwn]

Universal health coverage in the United States would be a disaster. Medicaid is already destroying the quality of care of actual hard working Americans. Changes need to be made to healthcare but universal coverage is not the answer. EMTALA needs to go along with Medicaid and costs will go down. Penalties for overweight people and smokers need to be increased. It's a sad day in America when young people idolize an Anti-American piece of shit like Bernie Sanders who promotes these ideas that don't work and go against everything that America was founded on. If you want free healthcare move to Cuba or Venezuela.

You are so fucking brainwashed Lmao. A thread full of first person accounts proving you 100% wrong,but just keep spouting those republican talking points supplied by the insurance companies while essentially calling regular people liars.

 

[Badger67]

You are so fucking brainwashed Lmao. A thread full of first person accounts proving you 100% wrong,but just keep spouting those republican talking points supplied by the insurance companies while essentially calling regular people liars.

I'm all for universal health care and love it up here in Canada, but the american health care system and its population, it may not be effective. It would be a massive overhaul of administration, allocation of taxes, and with the higher population of the US the distribution may be awkward, and take away from the war machine. I would love to see it implemented but I am unsure how they would be successful.

 

[TheStruggle]

So, Government is evil in setting up a healthcare system but insurance companies that do healthcare for profit are good?

Hey we go again, demonizing insurance companies to justifiy top/down government control, let me ask you, Do you like the DMV? The VA? The TSA? The Post Office? Then why do you think government will run healthcare better? Because they aren't 'driven by profits'?? You really want a system that matches Cuba like your commie friend Bernie Sanders wants?

You guys have been fed so much bullshit about UHC you have no clue how it actually works.

You have no idea about the complete lives system and the guy who wrote it, wrote Obamacare and calls or Single Payer. You blinded libs have no ask what you are advocating for.

Why would you pay a middleman (insurance companies) huge profits to get healthcare? Why wouldn't you like the idea of buying meds as one buyer, which would decrease the costs by huge margins?

Because competition is what drives down prices not government. You can't just got "well meds are going to be $2 now because that's what is fair." You'll destory the industry and fuck over everyone because not they have no other choice, because government controls the system and government has even successfully run anything.

What do actually think the Government does that reflects on you seeing your GP and getting the tests and procedures done?

They took money from person A to give to person B while at the same time paying the insurers to take loses to cover person A and ruined the entire market aka Obamacare.

 

[panamaican]

Can someone explain what Americans mean when they say single payer? It's all I see but I'm not sure on the specifics.

Is it public healthcare with optional private? Do you pay towards the public or do you expect it to be completely covered by the government?



What do you mean man? you picked a great example to demonstrate ignorance. I have private health care, always have, broke my leg spectacularly last year and will require a knee replacement by the age of 40 due to the amount of cartilage I lost. The operation will cost 20-25,000, I'll be paying around 4,000 of that. Also get the usual private benefits, private room, better doctors, better nurses, better aftercare, overnight stays instead of day surgeries. I've already had surgeries public and private, public blows compared to private.

They mean that government acts as the insurer for the entire population and the effective premiums are built into your taxes. You can still obtain and use private insurance if you want but you wouldn't have to.

Essentially, Medicaid without age or income limitations.

 

[ocfightfan]

If you like long wait times, fewer options, lower quality, fewer new treatments and medical breakthroughs, and the inability of the US to defend itself much less its interests abroad or even pay for infrastructure, then socialized medicine is a great option. Free healthcare for all, including bums foreign and domestic who don't pay for it.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gracem...nnovative-culture-is-threatened/#45cb7ea177eb

https://www.forbes.com/2008/05/25/h..._avd_outsourcing08_0529healthoutsourcing.html

We can take our entire healthcare system and make it just as bad as the VA, but at least everyone will be "covered".