Universal/socialist healthcare is worse than what we have now

ripskater said:
Because it created more problems than it solved, created a whole new set of problems, and it is an unsustainable plan. And now we're back to square one because it is failing.
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That's a whole bunch of vague bulshittery without a single real world example
 
MacDuffle said:
That's a whole bunch of vague bulshittery without a single real world example
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Just google Obamacare and it's failing. You will read about that fact. They either have to change it or create something new because it was a bad plan.
 
HatchetHarry said:
I have been a paramedic for a decade, registered nurse in the ER for 3 years, and will be a Family Nurse Practitioner/Mental Health Nurse practitioner in Mid 2018. Health care is an extremely complicated thing but it is a privilege and not a right. Are you angry because I speak the truth? Medicaid is an absolutely disgusting immoral program that discourages people from hard work while punishing those who actually earn their care. What do you think happens to the level of care ESI 1-2s receive when the emergency dept is flooded with hundreds of other complaints 95% of which are non-emergent. Hint: it doesn't improve.
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The idea that publicly funded health care is immoral but publicly funded police is moral is ridiculous. If its a question of earning your care, it applies equally well to police protection as it does to healthcare. Just because you like the idea of publicly paid police fighting your battles for you doesn't make it any more moral than someone else liking the idea of publicly paid doctors fighting his battles for him.

Nothing wrong with saying you want just one of the two, or both, or none. Look, private police - ie you and your friends against your enemies - and private healthcare - ie whatever care you and your friends could provide - was the norm for a very large portion of the 100,000's of thousands of years of human existence. So you could argue that both private police and private health care are the norm for humans.

In modern times, some countries have decided one or both are 'rights'; that's up to each society to decide. But saying that depending on one is immoral, and depending on the other moral is simply silly; publicly funded is publicly funded.
 
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ocfightfan said:
If you like long wait times, fewer options, lower quality, fewer new treatments and medical breakthroughs, and the inability of the US to defend itself much less its interests abroad or even pay for infrastructure, then socialized medicine is a great option. Free healthcare for all, including bums foreign and domestic who don't pay for it.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gracem...nnovative-culture-is-threatened/#45cb7ea177eb

https://www.forbes.com/2008/05/25/h..._avd_outsourcing08_0529healthoutsourcing.html

We can take our entire healthcare system and make it just as bad as the VA, but at least everyone will be "covered".
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TheStruggle said:
Hey we go again, demonizing insurance companies to justifiy top/down government control, let me ask you, Do you like the DMV? The VA? The TSA? The Post Office? Then why do you think government will run healthcare better? Because they aren't 'driven by profits'?? You really want a system that matches Cuba like your commie friend Bernie Sanders wants?




You have no idea about the complete lives system and the guy who wrote it, wrote Obamacare and calls or Single Payer. You blinded libs have no ask what you are advocating for.





Because competition is what drives down prices not government. You can't just got "well meds are going to be $2 now because that's what is fair." You'll destory the industry and fuck over everyone because not they have no other choice, because government controls the system and government has even successfully run anything.



They took money from person A to give to person B while at the same time paying the insurers to take loses to cover person A and ruined the entire market aka Obamacare.
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panamaican said:
We, the tax payer, basically fund the entire health industry (from training to research to treatment) but we fund it in such a way that actually makes it more expensive for us to use it. :confused: How does that make sense?
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The barriers to entry to get a physician level clinician are atrocious, and they're mandated in place by gov't. So to the extent you want to cry about funding training, you can blame the coercion of gov't upstream that creates the shortage. The 118 people in my class that have to pay a mortgage in debt to go to school would also like to say fuck you.... especially the ones that want a UHC.

To the rest of your post, I got so tired of correcting the other ignorant shit you and the dozens of other dolts say on here, I had to leave this forum. It's the same ignorant shit over and over again, especially from posters like you, whom I've taken my precious time to educate.

Every service has a shortage... its called scarcity. There are institutions that have the incentive, and more importantly, the inputs for the factors of production to make good decisions with the scarce resources they have, and there are institutions that don't.

The VA sucks because they have neither, not because they don't have a Goldilocks supply of clinicians. Anecdotally, I wanted to see what the VA was like. I waited for over 5 hours to go into an ED that was EMPTY of pts, and full of staff. Look up what economic calculations are and look up what the knowledge problem is before you vomit this fucking diarrhea again.

Next, time I come on here I expect you to give me a report about what it is, and what its implications are for why you have no fucking clue what you're actually talking about, respectfully.

Take care.
 
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MMA IAN said:
Can someone explain what Americans mean when they say single payer? It's all I see but I'm not sure on the specifics.

Is it public healthcare with optional private? Do you pay towards the public or do you expect it to be completely covered by the government?



What do you mean man? you picked a great example to demonstrate ignorance. I have private health care, always have, broke my leg spectacularly last year and will require a knee replacement by the age of 40 due to the amount of cartilage I lost. The operation will cost 20-25,000, I'll be paying around 4,000 of that. Also get the usual private benefits, private room, better doctors, better nurses, better aftercare, overnight stays instead of day surgeries. I've already had surgeries public and private, public blows compared to private.
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And under a public system you wouldnt be 4k in the hole. You wouldnt pay zhit. And yet you still sit here and believe the system that puts you 4k in debt is better.

<Lmaoo>

Thats called being brainwashed mate. Mountebanks love people like you who think that going into debt slavery for something the rest of the world doesnt pay for is a 'great' thing.

'ZOMG they let me have my own room!!'

Yes because in single payer countries they just stack people on top of each other right?
 
Ruprecht said:
We used to have true universal healthcare here in Australia, but the Liberal's love of privatisation underfunded medicare to the point they could introduce their multi tiered system. So now we have underfunded UHC, but you can pay "the gap" for private healthcare without any problem. I believe paying for insurance and private healthcare is still possible in the majority of countries with a UHC system.
Aside from that, there's mandatory savings schemes like Singapore's "Medisave".
Pretty sure all these options involve better outcomes at lower costs than the US system.
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Liked for using Liberal correctly.
 
Greoric said:
To the rest of your post, I got so tired of correcting the other ignorant shit you and the dozens of other dolts say on here, I had to leave this forum. It's the same ignorant shit over and over again, especially from posters like you, whom I've taken my precious time to educate.

Every service has a shortage... its called scarcity. There are institutions that have the incentive, and more importantly, the inputs for the factors of production to make good decisions with the scarce resources they have, and there are institutions that don't.

The VA sucks because they have neither, not because they don't have a Goldilocks supply of clinicians. Anecdotally, I wanted to see what the VA was like. I waited for over 5 hours to go into an ED that was EMPTY of pts, and full of staff. Look up what economic calculations are and look up what the knowledge problem is before you vomit this fucking diarrhea again.

Next, time I come on here I expect you to give me a report about what it is, and what its implications are for why you have no fucking clue what you're actually talking about, respectfully.

Take care.
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You got tired of getting your shit pushed in over basic assumptions. You never addressed the core flaws in your reasoning and so you ran away and blamed us for making you face your failures.

As for the VA - my parents went from running a very successful private practice to working for the VA. My dad was chief of his hospital department and my mom provided nursing in a clinical setting. So I'm going to take the perspective of actual medical professionals who were successful in the private sector before entering the VA over your crying from the patient side without any understanding of what's happening from the supply side.

Next time you come in here, I'm not going to expect anything from you because you bail from every conversation at the exact same point.
 
Sohei said:
And under a public system you wouldnt be 4k in the hole. You wouldnt pay zhit. And yet you still sit here and believe the system that puts you 4k in debt is better.

<Lmaoo>

Thats called being brainwashed mate. Mountebanks love people like you who think that going into debt slavery for something the rest of the world doesnt pay for is a 'great' thing.

'ZOMG they let me have my own room!!'

Yes because in single payer countries they just stack people on top of each other right?
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MMA Ian is in Oz.
 
I was just checking to see how much healthcare for my family would cost recently (3 kids + wife) It was roughly 700$ for mid tier and almost 900$ monthly for upper tier.
Who can afford that? I am lucky and work in a hospital and have access to more reasonable rates.

I had and MRI in 2012 ( L spine no contrast) and the bill was over 5,000$ with Radiologist report just for the scan. Who can afford these inflated prices. I had insurance
but what about those that do not?

I have read articles over why the US system is so expensive. Administrative costs in the United States are 20%-25%.


"Hospitals in the United States have administrative costs that are among the highest in the world. Health Affairs published a study analyzing data from Canada, England, Scotland, Wales, France, Germany, the Netherlands and the United States and found that for the United States, 25.3 percent of total hospital expenditures were for administrative costs. This figure is more than any other country assessed and double the percentage for both Canada and Scotland, which have the lowest administrative costs."

https://www.singlecare.com/blog/30-medical-bills-go-administrative-costs/

I don't pretend to know the answer but there has to be a better less expensive way.
 
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ripskater said:
Just google Obamacare and it's failing. You will read about that fact. They either have to change it or create something new because it was a bad plan.
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I bet these pages you are going to cherry pick data points, and conveniently leave out the facts that numerous Republican governors and state legislators refused to fund the medicaid expansion, and the Republicans in the house and senate refused to allocate more than 12 percent of the premium easement funds they needed to in order to stabilize the market in the short term.
 
panamaican said:
You got tired of getting your shit pushed in over basic assumptions. You never addressed the core flaws in your reasoning and so you ran away and blamed us for making you face your failures.

As for the VA - my parents went from running a very successful private practice to working for the VA. My dad was chief of his hospital department and my mom provided nursing in a clinical setting. So I'm going to take the perspective of actual medical professionals who were successful in the private sector before entering the VA over your crying from the patient side without any understanding of what's happening from the supply side.

Next time you come in here, I'm not going to expect anything from you because you bail from every conversation at the exact same point.
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Not an argument. I bail because you're a dullard. Try again though.
 
Greoric said:
Not an argument. I bail because you're a dullard. Try again though.
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It's not surprising that people who actually know what they are talking about have driven you off, yet again. Every single time you post something requiring any specialized knowledge, especially economics, you get clowned on, and hard at that.

Sometimes it's okay to stop trying. Just accept that you're a basic bitch, and move on.
 
Chramelated said:
This is not to say our current healthcare situation is ide, but I'd rather pay a decent copay and have access to care whenever the fuсk I want, than to wait 6 months for an x ray and pay an assload of taxes to take care of all the sick people in the country. The overwhelming majority of people have healthcare through their job and Medicare is pretty good for the old folks. Show me examples of people being denied access to healthcare and we'll fight that injustice together.
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You are 100% correct. A socialized Health Care delivery system in America would be a complete disaster, and the proponents of that system probably wouldn't fully realize that until it was already implemented.
 
WalkenWouldOwn said:
You are so fucking brainwashed Lmao. A thread full of first person accounts proving you 100% wrong,but just keep spouting those republican talking points supplied by the insurance companies while essentially calling regular people liars.

<JagsKiddingMe>
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First person accounts = proof one system is better than the other..... You are the one brainwashed here. If socialized medicine is so much better why do we get so many people coming to the USA from socialist countries for specialized care or because they have to wait 2 years for a procedure? You want first person accounts? I work in the emergency department and we have several Canadians check in on a daily basis because they can't receive the care they need in their home country.

People like you are what's wrong with America. You want everything handed to you.
 
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