Transgender politics: conversion therapy bans

Transgenderism is recognized as a mental illness. The idea that you can't get therapy and psychiatric assistance is fucking absurd. I'm wondering what the parameters of "conversion therapy" are in regards to transgender youth.
I think it depends on the state.

I think in California it's illegal. Which ironically probably has the highest number of transgenders. So you can't let these kids have conversion therapy in California.

Edit: @BEER

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_California

In August 2012, the California State Assembly approved SB 1172[37] prohibiting mental health providers from engaging in sexual orientation change efforts (such as conversion therapy) with LGBT minors, signed into law by Governor Jerry Brown on September 29, 2012.[38]
 
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There was this show called Jazz. A junior high boy who became a girl.

This is what happened one episode.

The doctor put him on testosterone blockers, messing with his hormones made him severely depressed and then the doc put him on depression medication.

It was so bad that the depression medication did not work. So the doc eventually took him off the testosterone blockers.

Messing with a 13-14 year old's hormones, no wonder the kid was screwed up and depressed. But this is what PC has done to the medical profession. It is insanity.

And if this kid decides to be a boy/man some day, his body is gonna be screwed up cause this is the hip/cool way to treat gender identity disorder.

I have a suggestion, get the kid in counseling if it's not already illegal in your state.

Supposedly there will be some serious problems with Jazz's "bottom surgery" because his penis never fully developed, seeing as how he started on puberty blockers at the age of 10.

Social media has been abuzz the last few days with the release of a trailer advertising the upcoming third season of “I Am Jazz.” It’s only a two-minute clip, but it packs a wallop. We see Jazz crying while saying “I just really hate myself” which is intense enough (given Jazz’s admission in the prior season of being suicidally depressed). But the big news is Jazz’s desire to seek bottom surgery. In the trailer, we see Jazz in three different doctors’ offices. The news isn’t good.

Doctor #1: You’re about to turn 16 so…I think it’s feasible that you could have bottom surgery.

Doctor #2 : We’re just now getting children who have been on puberty blocking hormones. When it comes to the surgery, we don’t have the raw materials we need.

Doctor #3: Testosterone suppression did you two big favors here (gestures at his chest, pantomiming breasts) but it didn’t do you any favors “down there.”

doc-two-big-favors.jpg

The benefits & drawbacks of blocking testosterone

The “raw materials” down there are, of course, the child-like male genitals Jazz would have, having been on puberty blockers (since age 10) and estrogen (since at least age 12), according to the first episode of “I Am Jazz” in Season 1. The most commonly performed procedure in the United States to create a facsimile of female genitalia, called “one-stage penile inversion” is more complicated and requires more steps when the male genitalia are the size of a prepubescent child.

A prior 4thWaveNow post, “Age is Just a Number,” touched on a few points from an April 2017 article in the Journal of Sexual Medicine co-authored by gender therapist Christine Milrod and USPATH head and UCSF gender psychiatrist Dan Karasic, which discussed exactly Jazz’s situation: “bottom surgery” for minor boys. The prior post emphasized some surgeons’ belief that minors should have the procedure done while still in high school so that their parents can ensure compliance; even be “active” in the dilation routine required to keep the neovagina open to “maintain the vaginal depth involved” before the teen becomes distracted by college.

But there is much more to say about not only the surgeons who operate on minors, but also those who recommend SRS for puberty-blocked preadolescents.

Of the 20 (anonymous) surgeons surveyed in the Milrod-Karasic article, 11 admitted to operating on boys under the age of 18. Unless Jazz seeks the procedure overseas, it’s highly likely it will be one of these surgeons who will do Jazz’s “bottom surgery,” should it take place before age 18.

From the get-go, co-authors Christine Milrod and Dan Karasic make clear that the growing trend of operating on minors is out of compliance with the current WPATH Standards of Care (SOC 7). But it’s evident from this and other writings that Milrod and Karasic –both proponents of “affirmative gender care” for minors—are interested in changing those standards for the next version (SOC 8). And they are not alone; lowering the age for genital surgery is a very popular topic among top gender clinicians like Johanna Olson-Kennedy and others.

Who are these 11 surgeons? Not even one has ever published on the issue:

The surgeons who perform the procedure on transgender minors have, without exception, refrained from publishing any peer-reviewed outcome data or technical articles on this small but increasingly important population….

…When asked about the lack of published data on surgery in minors, most participants asserted that GCS in all age groups had been a very small part of surgical medicine until very recently and that data on large volumes of procedures were not yet available. Some also cited the perceived “taboo” or outright stigma in performing the surgery and therefore a certain reluctance to share results or specific techniques.

But there are a few surgeons (whether they are part of the group surveyed for this article, we don’t know) who have been featured in news articles about genital surgeries on males under the age of 18. One of them, cited by Milrod and Karasic in a footnote, is Dr. Gary Alter, who in 2014 performed vaginoplasty on a 16-year-old.

alter-surgery.jpg


Dr. Gary Alter first removed the testicles and inserted a tissue expander (similar to an internal balloon) in the scrotum several months prior to the final sex change. The expander was progressively filled with fluid through a port during several follow-up visits in order to stretch the scrotal skin and yield enough skin as a graft to line the neovagina. The expander thus enabled the patient to avoid taking skin harvested from the flanks with the resulting unsightly scars. After 2.5 months, the expander was removed during the vaginoplasty and clitoral creation.

Just as Jazz’s doctors said: without the necessary “raw material” of a mature penis and scrotum, surgical fashioning of an approximation of female genitalia requires some rejiggering.

https://4thwavenow.com/2017/04/03/t...le-in-vaginoplasty-the-case-of-jazz-jennings/
 
If the kid commits suicide and the parents pushed them to be trans, the parents should be charged imo.

I agree 100%.

Look, if an adult wants to undertake these transitions, fine. Their body, their choice.

But there need to be options to help these people. You don't just hand someone who has expressed the desire to slit their wrists a razor blade, so why do we jump straight to cutting off dicks?
 
Ideally therapists would be trained to get to the bottom of why they feel uncomfortable as their biological sex and foster some self-acceptance. At the root of many psychological problems is perception, people have erroneous/counter-productive beliefs about themselves and others. The therapist helps correct those faulty perceptions, they don't accept them as true. The techniques already exist, they're ripe to be tried and applied to trans cases.

But in the current climate, parents really are the only frontier to protect their kids against bad decisions, society isn't being useful. That's scary because a lot of parents are very dumb.
 
The loony left had a field day the last 8 years.

It would be nice if the West could regain some of the common sense that we lost since all this crap go pushed.

All this stuff happened so fast.

I mean if someone told me we would see Bruce Jenner get female of the year, our president encouraging it and telling Bruce Jenner how brave he was, and a kid named Jazz showing us on tv how to make yourself into a girl, I would not have believed it.
 
Sounds kinda like cognitive behavioral therapy, and I think it makes sense to have it as an option for kids who get confused about their Gender.

With the gender unicorn and LGBT politics pushing its way into the school systems I am sure it will be confusing more children over time too.

The push to ban such therapy I think is purely political in nature, and those pushing it have no problem whatsoever screwing up kids for life if it means advancing their agenda.
 
I think it depends on the state.

I think in California it's illegal. Which ironically probably has the highest number of transgenders. So you can't let these kids have conversion therapy in California.

Edit: @BEER

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_California

In August 2012, the California State Assembly approved SB 1172[37] prohibiting mental health providers from engaging in sexual orientation change efforts (such as conversion therapy) with LGBT minors, signed into law by Governor Jerry Brown on September 29, 2012.[38]

I'm actually okay with banning conversion therapy for homosexual youth. It's cruel and as far as I've seen, useless. You can't pray the gay away. You probably can't shock the gay out of kids. Homosexuality isn't a mental illness.

Proponents of that sort of conversation therapy should be undergo it themselves, to see if they can turn someone gay. Sexual orientation isn't a choice.

But the question is, what constitutes "conversion therapy" for trans youth? Is it simply therapy, or are there specific parameters that are under scrutiny?
 
Sure. Ban conversion camps as there's a large risk of abuse or mistreatment at something like that

But also ban giving an hormone altering drugs to under 18s as well
 
Who really gives a shit? Why are you talking about it?

I know no trans people and will never know any trans people because I will immediately disassociate with them. The only exposure to any trans people I will ever have might be 1 time in a bathroom 1 day in my life. It's not even worth thinking about.
 
Trans people need mental health care.

Say that around most leftists and they'll bite your head off, but transgender folks, by definition, suffer from Gender Identity Disorder. This disorder is often coupled with Major Depression. Trans folks are no less likely to commit self-harm or suicide during or even after full transition. It's not an issue that can be fixed with hormones and surgeries. Trans people are suffering from mental illness, and most trans people I've met absolutely hate it. They're sick, they know they're sick, and they're surrounded by leftists with "savior" complexes that want to validate what they know to be sick delusions.

Some transition. Some seek therapy. But I've never met a trans person who didn't know it wasn't healthy. The transition process caters to delusions brought on by illness. It's like handing someone with strong suicidal ideation a fucking razor blade. And the far left is pushing it because identity politics are all they have to hang their hats on. It's dangerous.

I would say that most trans people are 'depressed, likely to commit self-harm', or suicide', because people like you convince them they have a mental illness and need therapy to correct the way they feel. It is this unaccepting suggestion that what they may be feeling, which could be completely due to the actual physical makeup of their body, that drives these people into despair.

It is an indisputable fact that people can be born with both sex chromosome variations, and we know that how you feel physically is directly connected to the brain. That is not simply a "mental illness" or a "delusion" as you say.

"Humans are born with 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs. The X and Y chromosomes determine a person’s sex. Most women are 46XX and most men are 46XY. Research suggests, however, that in a few births per thousand some individuals will be born with a single sex chromosome (45X or 45Y) (sex monosomies) and some with three or more sex chromosomes (47XXX, 47XYY or 47XXY, etc.) (sex polysomies). In addition, some males are born 46XX due to the translocation of a tiny section of the sex determining region of the Y chromosome. Similarly some females are also born 46XY due to mutations in the Y chromosome. Clearly, there are not only females who are XX and males who are XY, but rather, there is a range of chromosome complements, hormone balances, and phenotypic variations that determine sex."

Looks like God fucked up.
 
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I'm actually okay with banning conversion therapy for homosexual youth. It's cruel and as far as I've seen, useless. You can't pray the gay away. You probably can't shock the gay out of kids. Homosexuality isn't a mental illness.

Proponents of that sort of conversation therapy should be undergo it themselves, to see if they can turn someone gay. Sexual orientation isn't a choice.

But the question is, what constitutes "conversion therapy" for trans youth? Is it simply therapy, or are there specific parameters that are under scrutiny?
I know we disagree but I believe that someone can leave the homosexual lifestyle. Like Sy Rogers, former homosexual and former transgender. Now married for 30 plus years and has a grandkid now. I guess that's another topic. I think you do have to want to change. And you need people to help and support you in this change. I also happen to believe in God and I believe you need God to help you. I guess that's another thread.

I do believe you can't force someone to change.

But we probably can agree that banning conversion therapy for transgender minors is a stupid thing for states like California to do.
 
The loony left had a field day the last 8 years.

It would be nice if the West could regain some of the common sense that we lost since all this crap go pushed.

All this stuff happened so fast.

I mean if someone told me we would see Bruce Jenner get female of the year, our president encouraging it and telling Bruce Jenner how brave he was, and a kid named Jazz showing us on tv how to make yourself into a girl, I would not have believed it.

How do you reconcile the fact that God created them this way?

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
- Epicurus
 
How do you reconcile the fact that God created them this way?

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
- Epicurus
Who says that these transgenders are really women trapped in a man's body?

Bill Nye and DJ Seahorse?
 
The longer I live the more I am convinced that humanity desperately needs a massive culling.
 
Sounds kinda like cognitive behavioral therapy, and I think it makes sense to have it as an option for kids who get confused about their Gender.

With the gender unicorn and LGBT politics pushing its way into the school systems I am sure it will be confusing more children over time too.

The push to ban such therapy I think is purely political in nature, and those pushing it have no problem whatsoever screwing up kids for life if it means advancing their agenda.
They are basically pushing these kids, who probably have a terrible home life and support system into transgenderism. Then once they are there, it's illegal to counsel them out of it.

It's basically a set up for a one way dead end road.

But this is Marxism and the LGBTQ agenda for you.
 
Ideally therapists would be trained to get to the bottom of why they feel uncomfortable as their biological sex and foster some self-acceptance. At the root of many psychological problems is perception, people have erroneous/counter-productive beliefs about themselves and others. The therapist helps correct those faulty perceptions, they don't accept them as true. The techniques already exist, they're ripe to be tried and applied to trans cases.

But in the current climate, parents really are the only frontier to protect their kids against bad decisions, society isn't being useful. That's scary because a lot of parents are very dumb.

Parents are the last frontier, you say? The government in certain states/provinces (such as Ontario) have passed these kinds of bills which takes away options for parents looking for treatment for their child with gender dysphoria - it's "gender affirmative" or nothing. But they're still the parent, the legal guardian of the minor. They're the last frontier....right?

Maybe not for much longer in Ontario. Bill 89, the "Supporting Children and Families Act" (what kind of monster would be against that?) which is being proposed to replace the existing Child and Family Services Act and has been ordered for a 3rd reading at Queen's Park (the final reading, at which point it will be debated for the final time and voted on) seems to suggest that if a parent doesn't agree that their child is "in the wrong body", that child could be removed from the home by child services. Comments that the Minister of Child and Family Services made publicly seem to confirm that.

Bill 89 requires child protection, foster, adoption service providers, and judges to take into account and respect a child’s “race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, family diversity, disability, creed, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression.”

The above list – not just the sexual orientation and gender identity and expression part – has never been part of this law. Rather, the following principles have sufficed: respecting a child’s need for continuity of care and stable family relationships, involving the child and his or her relatives and community members, and respecting cultural, religious, and regional differences. These principles supplement the central purpose of the Act, which is “to promote the best interests, protection, and well-being of children.”

Bill 89 changes the matters to be considered in determining the best interests of children. The “religious faith, if any, in which the child is being raised” is removed as a matter to be considered. It is currently an important, stand-alone item. The above list of factors, which includes “creed” alongside “gender identity”, takes its place under Bill 89. Accordingly, Bill 89 also removes the requirement that a court determine, as soon as possible, the religious faith in which the child is being raised in the course of a child protection hearing.

When it comes to who can foster or adopt children, all parents will not be considered equal under Bill 89. Particularly not those who reject gender ideology.

Moreover, children of parents who refuse to affirm such ideology may be considered “in need of protection”. A child suffering or “at risk of suffering” mental or emotional harm and whose parents do not provide “treatment or access to treatment” is a child in need of protection under the law. The children’s aid society must investigate evidence that children may be in need of protection. And a court can make orders governing the care of children deemed to be in need of protection.

QP Briefing reports: “[Ontario’s Minister of Child and Family Services] Coteau said … that it could be abuse for an LGBT teen to be told their identity is wrong and they should change.

‘I would consider that a form of abuse, when a child identifies one way and a caregiver is saying no, you need to do this differently,’ he said.

‘If it’s abuse, and if it’s within the definition, a child can be removed from that environment and placed into protection where the abuse stops,’ he said.”

Bill 89 also signals a potential shift towards greater readiness for children’s aid societies to intervene in family affairs. The current law has as a guiding principle that service providers should take “the least disruptive course of action that is available”. Section 1(2)2 of Bill 89 keeps this language, but adds, “including the provision of prevention services, early intervention services and community support services”. The implication is that intervention should not be presumed to be more disruptive than non-intervention.

https://arpacanada.ca/news/2017/01/06/bill-89/

As a parent in Ontario, I find this to be really, really disturbing.
 
They are basically pushing these kids, who probably have a terrible home life and support system into transgenderism. Then once they are there, it's illegal to counsel them out of it.

It's basically a set up for a one way dead end road.

But this is Marxism and the LGBTQ agenda for you.

As @sangreporsangre pointed out, it goes further than that, in that it is blanketed to apply to 'gender identity' in which can mean anything. There is no limit to the number of gender identities, and you can even be 'fluid' as to change back and forth at a whim.

It's basically 'gender confusion'. Whether that leads to transgenderism or something else I don't think really matters to the political activists. Anything but the dreaded CIS it seems.

I guess once a kid is gender confused he's more likely to join the LGBTQGTRTDF tribe, or something along those lines. New recruits.
 
Who says that these transgenders are really women trapped in a man's body?

"Humans are born with 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs. The X and Y chromosomes determine a person’s sex. Most women are 46XX and most men are 46XY. Research suggests, however, that in a few births per thousand some individuals will be born with a single sex chromosome (45X or 45Y) (sex monosomies) and some with three or more sex chromosomes (47XXX, 47XYY or 47XXY, etc.) (sex polysomies). In addition, some males are born 46XX due to the translocation of a tiny section of the sex determining region of the Y chromosome. Similarly some females are also born 46XY due to mutations in the Y chromosome. Clearly, there are not only females who are XX and males who are XY, but rather, there is a range of chromosome complements, hormone balances, and phenotypic variations that determine sex."

It's certainly not a mutation, since we are speaking from the perspective of creationism.

So I'll ask again, how do you reconcile the fact that you are trying to change something that God created/going against His Will?
 
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