Transgender politics: conversion therapy bans

I read somewhere that there is an uptick in people putting their kids in Catholic schools, which would make sense. We're going to need some sort of option for people who don't want their kids inducted into the sex based indoctrination and whatever other bizarro conditioning programs are pushing into the public schools.

Any sort of school grounded in some more traditional values is going to start looking more appealing to a lot of people.

The programs make me think of Huxley's Brave New World, where sex based conditioning was used on children.

Well I don't know exactly how it is in other places but in Ontario the Catholic school board is no safe refuge from gender theory-based curriculum - thanks to Bill 13 which was passed a few years ago, the "Accepting Schools Act". I definitely agree with you on the reference to Brave New World. I used to clown on you for making that observation but how can anyone not see parallels to that in the face of all this evidence? Anyone who denies that there has been a mass social engineering program with this insanity isn't being honest with themselves.
 
Well I don't know exactly how it is in other places but in Ontario the Catholic school board is no safe refuge from gender theory-based curriculum - thanks to Bill 13 which was passed a few years ago, the "Accepting Schools Act". I definitely agree with you on the reference to Brave New World. I used to clown on you for making that observation but how can anyone not see parallels to that in the face of all this evidence? Anyone who denies that there has been a mass social engineering program with this insanity isn't being honest with themselves.

Oh yeah, I know religious schools are under pressure as well. There has been some high profile activism to get those politics into those schools too, but I have to assume that it will be much more tempered in those schools at the very least.

And yeah, it's social engineering along ideological lines, for political reasons. No doubt about it.
 
I read somewhere that there is an uptick in people putting their kids in Catholic schools, which would make sense. We're going to need some sort of option for people who don't want their kids inducted into the sex based indoctrination and whatever other bizarro conditioning programs are pushing into the public schools.

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Those teachings are about to spreading even in catholic schools. The only solution would be some form of homeschooling but it is illegal in several countries.
My grandparents came to Canada from Abruzzo. They would be spinning in their graves if they could see this shit happening on both sides of the pond.
Italy has changed much in the last 50 years, not always in positive ways.
 
Nope. There weren't any "yes-men" chirping you, one solitary guy pointed out a fallacy in one of your posts. That's it. And how do you explain to yourself why you gave me shit for not responding fast enough that time? Who would even do that except for some kind of flame warrior who thrives off that kind of stuff? Lmao, just admit to yourself that you get some kind of dopamine rush from "owning neocons" and getting in pointless arguments online. That isn't exclusive to you; it's a common thing today and as I've said it's toxic to discourse, it's a big reason we have some of the problems we do today.

All the questions I asked boiled down to 2 things: do you think that the process of chemically and surgically transitioning children should be allowed? If not, what can we do to to put a stop to it? You never answered these questions. Instead you called me a bunch of names and accused me of: homophobia, trying to hold back progress in gene therapy, "blackening the name of feminism" lmao, bullying a pharmaceutical company, and contributing to the destruction of liberalism as an ideology.

If you don't want to answer those 2 questions, please stop responding. You can claim a victory here over a "neo-con", I concede in the face of your towering intellect. But sometime, after you've cooled down a bit, some introspection might be in order: what exactly do you get out of heated, insult-filled exchanges with faceless strangers online? Do you think that's healthy?


stop complaining

stay of WR if you're going to complain about heated tones, jesus balls

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Are you seriously still asking me if I approve of chemically and surgically modifying kids? Are you having a stroke? The fuck is wrong with you

I'm not currently drafting any legislation in the field of medical practice, so I don't know why you keep demanding I solve your thread

If you malign the general ideology behind philanthropy towards gender/sexuality in your quest for keeping kids safe however, you're treading on some seriously morally confused protective impulses because there were times in every countries history where 'alternative' sexual/gender expressions meant you would be torn apart by horses or died via rectal hot poker, and many reasons for these ideologies existing today arose out of basic goals like allowing said individuals to exist at all
 
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stop complaining

stay of WR if you're going to complain about heated tones, jesus balls

*edit:
Are you seriously still asking me if I approve of chemically and surgically modifying kids? Are you having a stroke? The fuck is wrong with you

I'm not currently drafting any legislation in the field of medical practice, so I don't know why you keep demanding I solve your thread

If you malign the general ideology behind philanthropy towards gender/sexuality in your quest for keeping kids safe however, you're treading on some seriously morally confused protective impulses because there were times in every countries history where 'alternative' sexual/gender expressions meant you would be torn apart by horses or died via rectal hot poker, and many reasons for these ideologies existing today arose out of basic goals like allowing said individuals to exist at all

Perma-rustled dude comes back an hour later to his post? Lmao. Anyway, my question was: do you think it should be allowed, ie should it be legal. Not if you personally approve. Do you think our governments should allow it, to the point that it's covered under insurance plans as mandated by law in some states/provinces?

I'm aware that you're not drafting legislation, and I'm not demanding anything of you, I'm asking questions. If we only discussed political matters with people who draft legislation, there would be no point of discussing any issue on here at all (unless the point is to release your frustration via arguments with strangers - like in your case). I didn't just ask this question of you, I asked it in the OP of anyone who is reading it. I've asked other posters as well. It's a politically charged issue, like I said earlier in this thread if I were to share this view that I disagree with this practice under my real name in Canada I could very well lose my job. How do we go about changing that? I feel people on the left need to make some noise on this issue, otherwise the only criticism will come from the religious right. This shouldn't be a partisan issue.

The only ideology I'm maligning is postmodernism. I haven't said anything against equal rights for lgbt, in fact I explicitly said I'm for that. I don't see how why we can't keep the advances that we've made while putting a stop to such a sickening practice.
 
Interesting article on the rise of "trans" children in the UK and the role that the media has played. Seeing as how so many media pieces on such kids are essentially doing nothing other than promoting gender affirmation therapy.

Tavistock-referrals-2017.png


Showing the sharp increase in referrals to the Tavistock clinic in less than a decade. In other contexts this would probably be a cause for concern but here it's seen as a victory of "progress" by the mainstream.

Celebratory media coverage of ‘trans kids’ has continued unabated since the Tavistock referral figures were announced this time last year, with ‘serious’ publications like Time magazine and the National Geographic getting in on the act with glossy promotional features. A quick search reveals that in the UK the BBC alone has covered the subject of ‘transgender kids’ in at least 35 online articles, 23 radio broadcasts and 7 TV shows (including those promoted directly to children) over the twelve month period.

We decided to take a section of the media – the UK national daily newspapers – not only to find out the number of articles about ‘transgender kids’ published between April 1 2016 – March 31 2017, but to analyse the content of those articles in order to understand the actual message which the ‘general public’ has been receiving over the twelve-month period. What are the ideas that the media is promoting and what kind of societal beliefs is it helping to establish?

Is the media helping to create a culture which supports without question the teenage girl who says “I’m really a boy and I need blockers/hormones” or a society within which that teenage girl feels comfortable with who she is, without feeling the need to cosmetically change her body to look like a boy? And is the message from the media likely to encourage parents 1) to believe that their child or teenager is ‘transgender’ and 2) to accept a medical treatment pathway as the safe, normal – and, indeed, only – ‘solution’?

It's interesting how they broke it all down, but their findings won't exactly come as a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/surprising-referrals-children-tavistock-clinic-continue-soar/

Within the 27 child transition stories, of the 13 which referenced puberty blockers only one mentioned that the majority of children grow out of gender dysphoria during puberty, 2 referenced the greater likelihood of these kids being gay or lesbian as adults and only one mentioned that we don’t know the effects of blockers on the developing adolescent brain. Although cross-sex hormones were referred to in 12 articles and future surgery in 10, only 4 articles mentioned the risk of sterility, 2 the lack of long-term research, 1 that a child will become a life-long medical patient and not one that anyone ever regrets their transition. Finding out information online was referred to 9 times and specific transgender organisations were named 8 times, leading parents to a source of ‘information’ which will be 100% encouraging of the diagnosis and treatment of their child as ‘trans’ with 0% facts and evidence encouraging caution. (Transgender organisations were referenced a total of 36 times amongst all 114 UK based articles).

The most depressing aspect of these child transition stories is the uncontested belief in gender and sex-role stereotypes as evidence that a child is really the opposite sex (referenced in 22 of the 27 articles). But the lowest point must be that the cruel and emotionally manipulative claim – backed by zero evidence – that a child will commit suicide unless a parent supports their ‘transition’ is given a platform in no less than eleven articles.
 
Thought experiment: What is a transgendered person without access to cosmetic surgery in a society where everyone dresses the same?
 
Thought experiment: What is a transgendered person without access to cosmetic surgery in a society where everyone dresses the same?

Maybe a homosexual person? Or maybe just an effeminate guy, or a masculine girl. But you raise a really really good question. The postmodernist trans cult has portrayed transgenderism as some kind of innate mode of being, a trans kid is "born in the wrong body" and knows that from an early age. But why do they make such a big deal out of toys and clothing then?
 
we are more advance then you sucker!
In this small in town of center Italy we got even the simulate gay marriage for the childrens in the elementary school
https://translate.google.it/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.radiospada.org/2017/05/gender-lezione-choc-alle-elementari-matrimonio-gay-tra-due-bimbi/&edit-text=

<{hmmm}><{clintugh}>

It's like Western countries are having some kind of competition, who can he the most "progressive". Who can get to that Brave New World first. So fucked up. I mean, me and the people I grew up with didn't have shit like this in school, and we somehow didn't end up being hate-filled homophobes.
 
^ This is my point. Your posts and twitter copy/pastes malign "progressive" ideology in western countries and 'gender affirmation' as destructive, period; hand-in-hand with a stable of well-known WR "traditional values" neo-cons. You're not balancing the utility of some fairly basic tolerance initiatives, because of the off-chance they're misused on children. That's like saying guns are ruining our nation's values because parents could give guns to their kids without educating them in proper handling. That these ideologies exist, create tolerance measured by their specific applications, is more important than you convincing naive posters that liberality politick is a baby-warping scourge that ruins the west
 
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^ This is my point. Your posts and twitter copy/pastes malign "progressive" ideology in western countries and 'gender affirmation' as destructive, period; hand-in-hand with a stable of well-known WR "traditional values" neo-cons. You're not balancing the utility of some fairly basic tolerance initiatives, because of the off-chance they're misused on children. That's like saying guns are ruining our nation's values because parents could give guns to their kids without educating them in proper handling. That these ideologies exist, create tolerance measured by their specific applications, is more important than you convincing naive posters that liberality politick is a baby-warping scourge that ruins the west

Outstanding

I guarentee that if you oppose postmodernism, you have absolutely no idea what postmodernism is

tenor.gif


All you've done in this thread is exposed how binary your thinking is. You make it sounds as if someone doesn't accept 100% of the "progressive" agenda that they're a knuckle-dragging conservatard. As if there is no room for nuance. I blame over-consumption of partisan media for attitudes like yours.

Let's use your gun example. Say there's a conservative guy in the US who strongly believes in the 2nd Amendment. But then let's say the NRA agitates via political activism and is successful at lowering the age limit for purchasing down to like 10 years old. Let's say he sees that they have been able to get shooting lessons and other gun related courses added to the curriculum of public schools, as well as a media push glorifying gun ownership among children. They also agitate successfully to have gun purchases for minors paid for by the state, and alternate self-defense choices are banned. He then notices a massive increase in gun ownership among kids. If that same guy were to say "hey guys I believe in gun rights, but we're going too far here!" should he be shouted down by other conservatives? "Oh my god you're hand-in-hand with left-wing commies!" I think that would be stupid and unproductive. Again, it speaks to tribalism and binary thinking.

Why don't you educate me on the virtues of postmodernism then if it's so great?
 
tenor.gif


All you've done in this thread is exposed how binary your thinking is. You make it sounds as if someone doesn't accept 100% of the "progressive" agenda that they're a knuckle-dragging conservatard. As if there is no room for nuance. I blame over-consumption of partisan media for attitudes like yours.

Let's use your gun example. Say there's a conservative guy in the US who strongly believes in the 2nd Amendment. But then let's say the NRA agitates via political activism and is successful at lowering the age limit for purchasing down to like 10 years old. Let's say he sees that they have been able to get shooting lessons and other gun related courses added to the curriculum of public schools, as well as a media push glorifying gun ownership among children. They also agitate successfully to have gun purchases for minors paid for by the state, and alternate self-defense choices are banned. He then notices a massive increase in gun ownership among kids. If that same guy were to say "hey guys I believe in gun rights, but we're going too far here!" should he be shouted down by other conservatives? "Oh my god you're hand-in-hand with left-wing commies!" I think that would be stupid and unproductive. Again, it speaks to tribalism and binary thinking.

Why don't you educate me on the virtues of postmodernism then if it's so great?

Saying I'm binary doesn't make it so. You're grouping too many things under one banner, and my pointing that out doesn't turn me into the umbrella-smear politics you're falling back on desperately. I value all political ideology that operates in fair rhetoric and application, and you're getting childish again

You copy pasted some dumbfuck tweet saying liberal/feminist/anti-capitalist ideology is ignorant because drug companies and surgeons make money off a dubious practice. You're tackling three separate ideologies with a glorified facebook status. Grow some balls. You know exactly why that falls apart. Just read that thing. Actually read how unbalanced that is.

Your dogmatic generalizations are everywhere.You don't want to be called on this bullshit, you're complaining because you just want a WR thread where everyone agrees with you because you're fragile as fuck and barely understand the nuance in half these terms. You just want to blame concepts wholesale because it's easier.

Postmodernism is what keeps kids like you from developing "grand narratives" about everything, and refusing to recognize multiple connotations behind the signs and signifiers.

That's why that shit is so funny when you write-off postmodernism. It's the kind of ignorance so heady it'll make your mum blind
 
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Saying I'm binary doesn't make it so. You're grouping too many things under one banner, and my pointing that out doesn't turn me into the umbrella-smear politics you're falling back on desperately. I value all political ideology that operates in fair rhetoric and application, and you're getting childish again

You copy pasted some dumbfuck tweet saying liberal/feminist/anti-capitalist ideology is silly because drug companies and surgeons make money off a dubious practice. You're tackling three separate ideologies with a glorified facebook status. Grow some balls. You know exactly why that falls apart. Just read that thing. Actually read how unbalanced that is.

Your dogmatic generalizations are everywhere.You don't want to be called on this bullshit, you're complaining because you just want a WR thread where everyone agrees with you because you're fragile as fuck and barely understand the nuance in half these terms. You just want to blame concepts wholesale because it's easier.

Postmodernism is what keeps kids like you from developing "grand narratives" about everything, and refusing to recognize multiple connotations behind the signs and signifiers.

That's why that shit is so funny when you write-off postmodernism. It's the kind of ignorance so heady it'll make your mum blind

You know I'm right though. There's no reason why we can't have gay marriage etc but stop this crazy gender constructionist BS being pushed on kids, and we definitely shouldn't be sterilizing children based on them claiming that they're "born in the wrong body". Your problem is that instead of addressing what I've been posting, you attack what you think that I'm thinking. You're so worked up that you don't even understand what you're looking at: look at that tweet that I posted which you claim says liberal/feminist/anti-capitalist ideology is silly. It doesn't, and do you really think that someone with the Twitter handle of "Loud Lesbian" is anti-feminist or anti-liberal? It's showing the mental gymnastics that so-called progressives have to go through to justify the sterilization of and experimentation on children. The vast majority of content that I've linked itt is from explicitly feminist sources.

We're not gonna come to any agreement on this, so please just go away. I'm not looking for everyone to agree with me here, in fact I was hoping to have a productive discussion on this with someone who actually agrees with the practice. All you've done is some half-assed "no I don't agree with it, but YOU'RE the asshole for speaking out against it!!" BS which doesn't help anything, except your ego I guess. So just move on to some more "neo-cons" that you're gonna own. But remember this thread when there is eventually a backlash against this sickening trend.
 
<{hmmm}><{clintugh}>

It's like Western countries are having some kind of competition, who can he the most "progressive". Who can get to that Brave New World first. So fucked up. I mean, me and the people I grew up with didn't have shit like this in school, and we somehow didn't end up being hate-filled homophobes.

It is like having your society be converted to a new religion. It creeps in, people start parroting it, their values change, their behaviors change, their ideas of what constitutes heresy change, their culture changes, etc.

Yuri Bezmenov referred to it (in the context of this Marxist based ideology) as ideological subversion.
 
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You know I'm right though. There's no reason why we can't have gay marriage etc but stop this crazy gender constructionist BS being pushed on kids, and we definitely shouldn't be sterilizing children based on them claiming that they're "born in the wrong body". Your problem is that instead of addressing what I've been posting, you attack what you think that I'm thinking. You're so worked up that you don't even understand what you're looking at: look at that tweet that I posted which you claim says liberal/feminist/anti-capitalist ideology is silly. It doesn't, and do you really think that someone with the Twitter handle of "Loud Lesbian" is anti-feminist or anti-liberal? It's showing the mental gymnastics that so-called progressives have to go through to justify the sterilization of and experimentation on children. The vast majority of content that I've linked itt is from explicitly feminist sources.

We're not gonna come to any agreement on this, so please just go away. I'm not looking for everyone to agree with me here, in fact I was hoping to have a productive discussion on this with someone who actually agrees with the practice. All you've done is some half-assed "no I don't agree with it, but YOU'RE the asshole for speaking out against it!!" BS which doesn't help anything, except your ego I guess. So just move on to some more "neo-cons" that you're gonna own. But remember this thread when there is eventually a backlash against this sickening trend.

Right about what? You talk shit about things you don't understand and dismiss ideologies that you are too young to remember the impact of. You barely understand the medical definitions involved in reassignment

The way that tweet is phrased does not help anyone, I blame the writer regardless of their identity. I can't believe you still need this explained to you, you fucking child

The subject (lib/fems) is not responsible for, nor the source of the medical field practicing controversial surgeries, or profiting. That's a broad brushstroke of people being 'guilted' via their degree of awareness of practices they weren't engaged in. It's a well-known fallacy argument -- "Where were YOU when first responders stormed the twin towers? Eating an ice cream cone? Shame!" Your lack of awareness of something does not implicate you in its practice. Think.

You're repeatedly connecting progressive theory to child abuse, but you bitch like hell when someone tells you that's narrowing ideology. I'm not going to help you make broad as fuck cynical declarations about how the world works, you have to reconcile those choices yourself

So much alarm over child raising when you don't even have kids of your own. I find it hard to believe you care this much about providing so much evidence for why a clearly dubious practice is a bad thing. We all get it, we got it on page one. I think you've been too busy high fiving posters for saying progressivism is ruining the West to see what that says about your world view. And I'd wager evaluating your thinking is important, since you created this entire thread and swung your dick around replying to everyone like the subject of this thread was all about you, launched attacks on posters making typical ITT joke riffs, because you're no fun at all. I see what you really think is harmful, beyond this bullshit paper-machè cause you claim is affecting us all and causing the downfall of the USA

You posted this crap in a public forum for all to see. Don't complain when people aren't buying what you're selling. You can't pick and choose active posters like a coward, booting anyone that doesn't line up with your shitty rhetoric

I don't mind posters thinking differently, I only control what justification I bring to it if I don't agree. Same applies to you. I have two daughters, born overseas raised in the US, and I don't see where their hatred or fear or disgust with trans kids or the process gets us. I don't approve of pediatric transitions, but I wouldn't teach my girls to bully. All that fear does is mess with your kids sense of safety, let me worry about that. They don't know about gender reassignment at this stage, but I don't see the practice interfering with their safety or happiness beyond any and every individual human's capacity to cause harm to them, gender background be damned. I'm more worried about individual actions on a daily basis, threats we can't anticipate than a young kid getting breasts, get the fuck out of here, you don't actually give a shit
 
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