They really need to take "octagon control" out of the scoring criteria

I think identifying how much stamina you drained from your opponent is an effective criteria in judging.
 
Why do body shots count as points if all they do is drain your opponents stamina?
 
I thought Wonderboy won as well but I struggle to call that effective striking. The reality is neither guy did much of anything until the last round. Both guys take an L because no one is going to want to see either of them fight Woodley after that. Especially Wonderboy. He basically showed us all that a third fight with Woodley would go the exact same way and no one wants to see that.
 
Rampage_Jackson said:
Honestly I'd much rather see draws. And feel we should see more draws. Wouldn't have minded this fight being scored a draw, especially considering the lack of aggression from both fighters. Honestly there are a ton of fights without a decisive winner than I don't put a ton of stock into the judges decisions.
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That'd be a lot of draws over the years
 
I agree "octagon control" is a criterion that doesn't make sense but it's not true that Till ate more shots than he landed. It was very even.
 
Rampage_Jackson said:
Aggression and "octagon control" do not have shit to do with winning a fight. Effective striking and grappling do.

moving forward does not = winning a fight

Til ate way more shots than he gave. 49-46 Wonderboy

Til wins under better scoring AKA Pride rules thanks to finishing strong and having the knockdown but WB got robbed under unified rules unless you just weigh "octagon control" a ridiculous amount for some reason.
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Yes dominating the match up does.. Hold on man.. Khabib Chasing a mutha whoer around the ring.. Doesn't count for something.. When they are a striker.. How do you call that should be out.. Like if you run chicken how you win?
 
Gorkle said:
The irony being, controlling the octagon literally just won someone the fight.

Whether or not it should is an entirely different question.
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Nah, bias judging won Till that fight.
 
I believe that there definitely should be an external incentive to lead while on the feet (besides just the internal incentive of putting pressure onto your opponent), and I have no problem with it if that incentive is achieved through the scoring system.

In a match-up like Till vs Wonderboy, the one who leads is basically conceding a static advantage to his opponent since both of the fighters in question would obviously prefer the other guy to come forward instead. One guy has to lead or the fight turns into a staring contest where both guys stubbornly wait for the other to come forward. If all fighters stubbornly waited for their opponents to always take the initiative on the feet and refused to lead because of the inherent disadvantage in doing so, a lot of fights would turn out like Silva vs Maia.
 
blaseblah said:
I thought Wonderboy won as well but I struggle to call that effective striking. The reality is neither guy did much of anything until the last round. Both guys take an L because no one is going to want to see either of them fight Woodley after that. Especially Wonderboy. He basically showed us all that a third fight with Woodley would go the exact same way and no one wants to see that.
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Till hurt WBs leg in one of the rounds and knocked him down in the 5th. WB even showed a limp between rds and talked about the fact after. Shouldnt causing ur opponent to limp and drop do a strike win over a copy box number contest?
 
AtlSteel said:
The UFC has to carry some of the original intent, which is to find the best fighter. Octagon control has to be a staple of the scoring. I may be in the minority these days, but I want to see fighters engage and try to kick the other guys ass. You have to give points to the guy chasing the other guy trying to make a fight. There are other things to watch if you want to see point fighting.
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Aggression is already its own category.
 
Rampage_Jackson said:
Aggression and "octagon control" do not have shit to do with winning a fight. Effective striking and grappling do.

moving forward does not = winning a fight

Til ate way more shots than he gave. 49-46 Wonderboy

Til wins under better scoring AKA Pride rules thanks to finishing strong and having the knockdown but WB got robbed under unified rules unless you just weigh "octagon control" a ridiculous amount for some reason.
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No he didn't and this fight shows you the opposite is true, Sherdog often has a bias for fighters who spend the fight backing off making opponents miss because it looks "more technical".
 
It's pretty much used as a tie breaker. I have always been ok with a fight like that just being called a draw though. No one really beat anyone up in that one.
 
I agree that just moving forward does not mean you should win the fight. A lot of fighters use lateral and backward movement as part of their fighting style.

Worst culprits are Diaz fans. always accusing opponents of running away.
 
Or just define it better

To me, walking towards your opponent without ever being able to cut off the cage and constantly losing the battle of footwork and position is NOT octagon control just because you are walking forward. Its the opposite of control in fact.
 
Rampage_Jackson said:
I don't give a shit about "sig strikes" the UFC talks about. At one point it said 41-37 when neither guy had landed anything significant in my book.

And notable as in clean strikes. In a glorified sparring session like we got that's all you can look for. Til didn't land any and Wonderboy did. Some body work and some counter punches, mostly straight punches.
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I saw nothing any cleaner from WB. The fight was boring most of the time and usually it was because of WB running/disengaging.
 
IamStryker said:
I saw nothing any cleaner from WB. The fight was boring most of the time and usually it was because of WB running/disengaging.
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I don't care enough to go back and find every clean shot Wonderman landed, but he was landing cleaner and more frequently. Wonderman fought like he always fought. Til was the one refusing to throw his left even though it looked threatening when he tried and scored a KD late. He seemed afraid he was going to gas (and he still sort of did despite throwing very little)
 
Eh, I kinda get why they have it.

If both guys land the exact same amount of strikes, and nothing of real significance happened, how do you score it?

Unless you also think there should be more 10/10 rounds in which case I wouldn't be opposed to that
 
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