The Truth about USADA, Failed Tests and "Cheating" Fighters

[frye666]

Or maybe there is something to the fact that a lot of fighters pop when they get old and lose some steps. Maybe their body isn't recovering like it used to. Maybe they find out it is hard to compete in their mid 30's? Maybe some fighters pop after years because they actually were clean but now need to use to compete. We should all take off the tinfoil hats, pretend we are Not expert genius's, and look at it in a simpler way.

 

[Perrichet]

The truth is the people who got busted by USADA are cheating bastards

 

[mkt]

The truth is the people who got busted by USADA are cheating bastards

And many people who haven't been under USADA testing cheated, too. We just don't know which ones.

 

[MakeSherdogGreatAgain]

Category 2 testing. That doesn't prove he never used PEDs. Anderson Silva passed drug tests for 9 years in the UFC with similar testing before he got busted. Maybe he was clean all those years or maybe he just didn't get caught. We don't know. That's my point about making assumptions.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I was responding specifically to a Strifeforce comment. If he was on something, Fedor clearly understood how to cycle because he passed drug tests in the US before. Strikeforce and early UFC testing was a joke.

Even with usada testing, there are probably a lot of guys on designer stuff they don't even know to test for.

It's the hurt business. People get in a cage and have themselves a fist fight for money. It's pretty stupid to think most of them aren't going to try to gain an edge. It wouldn't surprise me if all of them were on something.

 

[Turf Skirmish]

So, what I’m reading is that GSP was in category three, while Hendricks wanted to stay in category 2. And yet, somehow, Georges is the suspicious one.

 

[MakeSherdogGreatAgain]

I think they should add a "Juiced" division.

I've been saying this for years. Make a no testing league and let the games begin. That's how you really weed out the juicers. Keep a usada tested league, where the punishment for failing a test is a lifetime ban, and have your no testing league. See how many people keep competing under usada testing.

 

[sampuncher]

So, what I’m reading is that GSP was in category three, while Hendricks wanted to stay in category 2. And yet, somehow, Georges is the suspicious one.

That's how Sherdog works.

 

[mkt]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I was responding specifically to a Strifeforce comment. If he was on something, Fedor clearly understood how to cycle because he passed drug tests in the US before. Strikeforce and early UFC testing was a joke.

Even with usada testing, there are probably a lot of guys on designer stuff they don't even know to test for.

It's the hurt business. People get in a cage and have themselves a fist fight for money. It's pretty stupid to think most of them aren't going to try to gain an edge. It wouldn't surprise me if all of them were on something.

Yep. I was always a little surprised by Josh Barnett. He was busted in the earliest days of UFC testing and in Affliction. Josh comes across as a smart guy--I'm sure he could find a knowledgeable person who would've helped him cycle through the tests. It seems like he just didn't care. His cancelled fight with Fedor nailed the coffin shut for Affliction.

 

[sapporo ichiban]

I posted this in another thread, but think it's worthy of its own thread with all the PED assumptions and accusations. When we talk about PED testing, you have to consider the type of testing. There are 3 general categories, and "tbaumann" helped me expand the details (see below).

When someone says "Fighter A" never failed a test," you have to consider the type of testing they've had. And you can only compare fighters tested in the same categories. If you say "Randy Couture/Fedor/etc." never tested positive so they fought clean," realize they've only been under the first 2 categories of testing. It's not fair to compare them to fighters tested under USADA. Compare apples with apples, not with oranges. Below are the categories:

Early UFC, Pride, current Japan and Russia: no testing/anything goes

Mid-UFC, Strikeforce, current Bellator: In most cases, highly predictable/scheduled baseline testing. As long as you avoid substances with long detection periods, and stop using within the detection window, you will test clean. Commissions only test for a relatively narrow spectrum of substances, and do not test for peptides, gh/epo, pct drugs, etc.

USADA: Strictest testing. Utilization of CIR testing, biological passport, and other advanced methods to catch cheaters. Test for a broad spectrum of substances including peptides, gh/epo, pct drugs, etc. Many fighters tested clean for 10+ years in the UFC/SF/etc. but were caught under USADA.

You are right. The thing is that whatever environment the fighters are competing in, it will balance out.

If you competed in Pride then we could assume that most everyone was doing something which would mean that the playing field was equal and anyone who was successful and clean would have been exceptional.

The mid level category would be the worst because there would be those who would play the system and those who may not because there are actually rules in place. This would be the most hazardous environment.

Under usada, you would be closer to an equal playing field again. You are right, it is not fair to assume anything because we have no way of knowing who was doing what for many years. I would point out that peds will help a fighter in many ways but it does not teach you technique, that takes years of practice and the aptitude to apply in the ring or cage.

 

[orca]

Cant believe theres stil people that believe that fedor is clean in his entire career

 

[I WILL CUT YOU]

Fedor also fought in Affliction. They drug tested because it was in the US. He never failed a test there.

He was drug tested in PRIDE too, when they came to Vegas by NSAC.

Three fighters popped (Belfort, Randleman, Nastula) and Fedor didn't.

 

[bigconan]

So even without the early TK "loss," he lost and was finished by 4 fighters: Werdum, Bigfoot, Hendo and Mitrione. And Brawldanado came close!

to be fair though, all those fights were past fedor's prime...werdum was just over zealousness...

 

[I WILL CUT YOU]

Cant believe theres stil people that believe that fedor is clean in his entire career

I'd be mad too bro knowing Fedor never popped and the guy in your avatar did

 

[mkt]

to be fair though, all those fights were past fedor's prime...werdum was just over zealousness...

Hendo was 6 years older a much smaller (a MW). And Werdum, Bigfoot and Mitroine are just a little younger than Fedor--they're all in the same age range. Some thought Bigfoot was peaking and turning into an elite beast when he beat Fedor...then Cormier and Cain (twice) call that theory into question.

 

[TheGreatA]

Yep. I was always a little surprised by Josh Barnett. He was busted in the earliest days of UFC testing and in Affliction. Josh comes across as a smart guy--I'm sure he could find a knowledgeable person who would've helped him cycle through the tests. It seems like he just didn't care. His cancelled fight with Fedor nailed the coffin shut for Affliction.

Honestly I think Barnett did them mainly for the aesthetics. He just has the kind of a physique that seems to get sloppy even though he obviously trains fairly hard (considering his cardio and skill).

I think he might have a legitimate cause to use some form of TRT.

Japan:

UFC:

 

[mkt]

I'd be mad too bro knowing Fedor never popped and the guy in your avatar did

Machida "popped" under USADA and for a substance that might mask PED use...not an actual PED. I'm not sure if Fedor has been tested for things like DHEA.

 

[Perrichet]

And many people who haven't been under USADA testing cheated, too. We just don't know which ones.

And many people are murderers who just haven’t been caught yet

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

And many people are murderers who just haven’t been caught yet

Well, Bismarck said better that it was better than ten innocent men suffer than one guilty one go free (reversing Blackstone's formula). He would have liked Sherdog.

 

[Shcooby Dooby Doo]

I've seen the jabronies going on and on about how once dirty = career cheat and ignoring that guys like Werdum passed over 25 tests - under USADA - before popping.

It's very easily conceivable that someone could have been cheating - passed their 25+ tests - and simply retired before they ever got caught.

There are only two categories of fighters we can be confident in:
1- Caught cheating
2- Never caught cheating

Nobody should ever have any confidence that someone from category 2 is a "clean fighter that never cheated" because we have no way to know.

Ya see the problem with kids today is they lissen to the rEEEEp music.
With their hippin and the hoppin and the bippin and the boppin
So they don't know what the jazz is all about!!

Seriously though, many young men today have been stuffing their faces with so much Mcdonalds junk food their minds aren't equipped with thinking outside the box and prefer to go with easy blanket statements.

If I was competing in the pride era. I'd dope.
If USADA comes along and starts penalising men for it, I'd stop and be thankful for it.
It makes more sense that Werdum was hoping to reclaim his form again after what happened against Volkov. Werdum probably isn't the most informed and doesn't really know how to cycle or whatever. Thus, getting caught straight away.

 

[Internet Fairy]

Careful bro,

Some bros in here can't wrap their fucking thick skulls around that idea, dragging their knuckles along the floor they can barely understand the fucking idea that a guy could have never popped but fought at a time you were vastly more likely to be on something resulting in a fair question to ask when comparing them to guys who fight now in the time of, in my opinion, over testing.

Great avatar of Mr Frye!