The Truth about USADA, Failed Tests and "Cheating" Fighters

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by mkt, May 23, 2018.

  1. mkt

    mkt Silver Belt

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    I posted this in another thread, but think it's worthy of its own thread with all the PED assumptions and accusations. When we talk about PED testing, you have to consider the type of testing. There are 3 general categories, and "tbaumann" helped me expand the details (see below).

    When someone says "Fighter A" never failed a test," you have to consider the type of testing they've had. And you can only compare fighters tested in the same categories. If you say "Randy Couture/Fedor/etc." never tested positive so they fought clean," realize they've only been under the first 2 categories of testing. It's not fair to compare them to fighters tested under USADA. Compare apples with apples, not with oranges. Below are the categories:

    Early UFC, Pride, current Japan and Russia: no testing/anything goes

    Mid-UFC, Strikeforce, current Bellator: In most cases, highly predictable/scheduled baseline testing. As long as you avoid substances with long detection periods, and stop using within the detection window, you will test clean. Commissions only test for a relatively narrow spectrum of substances, and do not test for peptides, gh/epo, pct drugs, etc.

    USADA: Strictest testing. Utilization of CIR testing, biological passport, and other advanced methods to catch cheaters. Test for a broad spectrum of substances including peptides, gh/epo, pct drugs, etc. Many fighters tested clean for 10+ years in the UFC/SF/etc. but were caught under USADA.
     
  2. ortizgnp

    ortizgnp Original Vince Belt

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    At the end of the day it comes down to whether the fighter is liked or hated on here.

    Jon is innocent.
     
  3. TheIrishPsycho

    TheIrishPsycho Red Belt

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    Careful bro,

    Some bros in here can't wrap their fucking thick skulls around that idea, dragging their knuckles along the floor they can barely understand the fucking idea that a guy could have never popped but fought at a time you were vastly more likely to be on something resulting in a fair question to ask when comparing them to guys who fight now in the time of, in my opinion, over testing.
     
  4. mkt

    mkt Silver Belt

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    That's definitely a big part of it.
     
  5. Joe Rogan's Kettlebell

    Joe Rogan's Kettlebell Green Belt

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    Fedor was losing in strokeforce and they had stricter testing FACT
     
  6. sampuncher

    sampuncher Purple Belt

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    BUT HE WAS NEVER CAUGHT TO BE ON THEM SO THAT MUST MEAN HE'S NEVER TOOK ANYTHING IN HIS LIFE. FEDOR GOAT.
     
  7. mkt

    mkt Silver Belt

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    How were they more strict than USADA? Did you see the version of Overeem who fought in SF? Remember, he left the country and skipped a test before his first UFC fight vs Lesnar...then got busted before he could fight again. And that was pre-USADA.
     
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  8. TheIrishPsycho

    TheIrishPsycho Red Belt

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    In some things

    [​IMG]
     
  9. boxingskills

    boxingskills Training to break world records.

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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. mkt

    mkt Silver Belt

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    That's exactly the type of faulty conclusion I'm talking about. I think you're being sarcastic and making my point, though.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
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  11. Toxxus

    Toxxus The Ancient One Platinum Member

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    I've seen the jabronies going on and on about how once dirty = career cheat and ignoring that guys like Werdum passed over 25 tests - under USADA - before popping.

    It's very easily conceivable that someone could have been cheating - passed their 25+ tests - and simply retired before they ever got caught.

    There are only two categories of fighters we can be confident in:
    1- Caught cheating
    2- Never caught cheating

    Nobody should ever have any confidence that someone from category 2 is a "clean fighter that never cheated" because we have no way to know.
     
  12. TheIrishPsycho

    TheIrishPsycho Red Belt

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    Bro bro relax,

    You'll disintegrate his fucking tiny mind with that type of logic.

    Excellent point.

    Werdum was a totally clean fighter until he wasn't.

    Its exactly why I dont really count PED strikes on an entire career, its not possible to quantify it in reality. Sure you can remove PED violators but you are just shooting yourself in the foot and limiting the selection for no reason in my opinion. USADA can give out t-shirts that say you are clean all day long but thats so brittle.

    Not to mention the amount of substances that were legal only 5 years ago that nowadays could land you a two year ban!
     
  13. sampuncher

    sampuncher Purple Belt

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    I refuse to hear that they had stricter testing whilst at the same time they let Bobby Lashley fight for them.
     
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  14. Dr Hannibal Lecter

    Dr Hannibal Lecter Hmmmm... Platinum Member

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    I think a lot of people are more likely to conclude that he was using, because his prime was in an era with no testing, which is just as faulty a conclusion.
     
  15. tenniswhiz

    tenniswhiz Steel Belt

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    Saying he definitely used roids is just as idiotic as saying that he’s definitely always been clean.
     
  16. ThatGuy7698

    ThatGuy7698 Chael Sonnen Bless

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    You have guys like GSP who were going through "Olympic level" drug testing, and then guys like Jon Jones and Vitor Belfort where the UFC tried to cover up their drug tests before USADA (see UFC 152).

    At the end of the day, it is possible that some if not many fighters were on some type of juice before USADA, but to say everyone was is a very ignorant and unfair statement.
     
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  17. sampuncher

    sampuncher Purple Belt

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    Just aswell I said neither then isn't it really?
     
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  18. mkt

    mkt Silver Belt

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    Yep. If Werdum retired after his last fight, he'd have a legacy of a clean fighter with USADA honors. The same is probably true if he went to Bellator (though we can't prove it).
     
  19. TheIrishPsycho

    TheIrishPsycho Red Belt

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    No one in this thread is saying that bro,

    There are more options than binary you know? This is not boolean logic, its alot more complex than the common pleb wants to admit.
     
  20. TheIrishPsycho

    TheIrishPsycho Red Belt

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    Where was that said in this thread?
     
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