The individual mandate is a kind of slavery

[FIMN]

This may work in Europe or Canada bit it can't work here. Our government is too corrupt, too many special interests, and too many leeches on the system. It would just be writing a blank check to the entire medical industry. It would end up being 50% of our fiscal budget

It would require other reforms around lobbying, campaign finance and other areas yes. It would require resisting the oligarchy and demanding better governance that would be accountable to the people.

You suggesting it being impossible tells me a lot about your view of the severe limitations of your country.

 

[kahiljabroni]

Any analysis or data to support your rant?

The Obamacare mechanisms are well understood. Except by you.

Proof is in the pudding dipshit.

Furthermore the problem with our health care system is the cost. The question to ask is WHY does healthcare cost so much and for what RATIONALE does it need to increase? Then look for solutions to lower those costs.....Not just subsidize it so it can continue to balloon.

 

[kahiljabroni]

It would require other reforms around lobbying, campaign finance and other areas yes. It would require resisting the oligarchy and demanding better governance that would be accountable to the people.

You suggesting it being impossible tells me a lot about your view of the severe limitations of your country.

I'm not saying it's impossible...I'm saying we aren't currently capable. It would damn near require a revolution and the dissolution of our current government.

It would be a piece of cake to afford universal health care if we didn't piss away 10 trillion in the middle east, didn't have a ponzi scheme disguised as social security, if we could have tort reform, eliminate massive corporate welfare, etc etc.


We can't do any of it... so to push through universal health care in our current state would be catastrophic.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

"Slavery"

Upgrading your healthcare to first-world standards is literally the Holocaust bro.

 

[Jack V Savage]

@Cubo de Sangre to be honest though, I'm very tempted to throw a vote in for @Jack V Savage.

Not running. Throw it to @Quipling if you want to give it to someone who will use it well.

 

[FIMN]

Proof is in the pudding dipshit.

Furthermore the problem with our health care system is the cost. The question to ask is WHY does healthcare cost so much and for what RATIONALE does it need to increase? Then look for solutions to lower those costs.....Not just subsidize it so it can continue to balloon.

So in terms of analysis/data I'm taking that as a no.

Perhaps if everyone were given the public option, there would be much more political motivation to reduce costs, rather than everyone taking the attitude of 'I'm alright Jack' that incentivises everyone to look only at how the system could benefit themselves only.

 

[FIMN]

I'm not saying it's impossible...I'm saying we aren't currently capable. It would damn near require a revolution and the dissolution of our current government.

It would be a piece of cake to afford universal health care if we didn't piss away 10 trillion in the middle east, didn't have a ponzi scheme disguised as social security, if we could have tort reform, eliminate massive corporate welfare, etc etc.


We can't do any of it... so to push through universal health care in our current state would be catastrophic.

Well then enjoy doing nothing.

Perhaps Trump and the other republicans will continue their long tradition of standing up to the super wealthy and vote for the interests of the average voter. Like the tax reform, Obamacare repeal, net neutrality repeal, etc.

 

[Greoric]

Not running. Throw it to @Quipling if you want to give it to someone who will use it well.

I wanted to give it to you for a chaos vote. Quipling's too likable.

 

[HomerThompson]

So we can give up the freedom to opt out of insurance tax (or penalty, don't care about semantics) free but we also lose our ability to have an affordable, sustainable healthcare system that seeks to cover everyone.

I choose the ladder.

*latter

 

[HomerThompson]

Not running. Throw it to @Quipling if you want to give it to someone who will use it well.

 

[kahiljabroni]

So in terms of analysis/data I'm taking that as a no.

Perhaps if everyone were given the public option, there would be much more political motivation to reduce costs, rather than everyone taking the attitude of 'I'm alright Jack' that incentivises everyone to look only at how the system could benefit themselves only.

You want me to find you a chart that proves what healthcare would look like if Obama never fked with it? The fact that you would give any credence to such a chart tells me alot about you.

All I can tell you is how it was before Obama fked with it and how much worse it got after. Even if I was a complete lemming and believed it could have been worse if left alone it doesn't change the fact that Obamacare did nothing to remedy our health care system. Everyone in the middle class pays much more than they ever did. ... Much more than the rest of the world. It did absolutely nothing to address costs.

 

[kahiljabroni]

Just off the top of my head maybe declare healthcare in the US a state of emergency.
Pass a law banning any campaign contributions or lobbying of any sort from any business associated with the medical industry.

Pass a law that limits the profit margin on any medication that is deemed critical to life and we'll being.

Pass a bill that caps any and all medical lawsuits at a reasonable number.

Start negotiating aggressively to lower prescriptions and procedures for those on medicare.

Start a R and D facility that can counter big pharma.... Hire the best scientists right out of school and pay them well to develop the next life saving medicines which eventually could be sold at a price that just covers the cost of operation. ..or even sell them at a loss to make it affordable.

I'm just spit balling here. ... I'm sure if we put our war room heads together we could come up with some great common sense answers. BUT... Until money is removed from politics we will never have common sense reform. Just corporate welfare.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I wanted to give to you for a chaos vote. Quipling's too likable.

I wouldn't be a chaos vote. I really just like serious, honest discussion. Last year, I did run, and my plan was to exclusively post in the sticky thread and make it a bullshit-free zone.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Other good candidates, too.

 

[FIMN]

All I can tell you is how it was before Obama fked with it and how much worse it got after.

How can you tell me that without a lot of data and analysis?

 

[Greoric]

I wouldn't be a chaos vote. I really just like serious, honest discussion. Last year, I did run, and my plan was to exclusively post in the sticky thread and make it a bullshit-free zone.

Yes, I remember.

 

[djacobox372]

The involuntary mandate is a tax, which is how the Supreme Court ruled. Obama campaigned that it wasn't a tax, repeatedly denied it. In the end the libs had to call it a tax or have it thrown out as unconstitutional - and they got Roberts to buy in.

Obama was against the mandate, and instead wanted a public option, but he was forced to opt for the conservative idea of a mandate in order pass the bill.

 

[kpt018]

*latter

No, I’m not that tall and sometimes need a ladder

 

[oldshadow]

Let's be honest here.

The US has one if not the best actual medical quality of care in the world.

What we are talking about is avabilty and cost.

You need to find an hold a job with good benefits to be able to make use of this quality to it's best advantage. Which is something that us here look for in job.

So the question is what do those that have insurance have to give up so that doesn't have insurance through their job gets better health care.

So far I haven't see anything to convince me that it is going to be better for me and my family.

 

[FIMN]

Let's be honest here.

The US has one if not the best actual medical quality of care in the world.

What we are talking about is avabilty and cost.

You need to find an hold a job with good benefits to be able to make use of this quality to it's best advantage. Which is something that us here look for in job.

So the question is what do those that have insurance have to give up so that doesn't have insurance through their job gets better health care.

So far I haven't see anything to convince me that it is going to be better for me and my family.

Tying healthcare to employment stifles innovation when you think about it.

I posted this earlier, but I have healthcare at the point of demand for less than what you pay in taxes, and I have private insurance for the equivalent of $40 a month. There are no medical bankruptcies here, and health coverage is politically untouchable and loved by the majority of the people.

Either tens of millions of people are stupid or lying, or you've been duped by propaganda and fake news.