Pope Francis Accused of Propagating Heresey By 62 Catholics

[Quipling]

By accusing him of "propogating heresay" They're basically saying that he is creating conditions that are allowing heresy to thrive.

Bernard Fellay was excomunicated by John Paul II.

Tedeschi was investegated for laundering money from the Vatican Bank. So all in all, some real heavy hitters who can totally talk about heresy.

Yeah, talked to a catholic friend who is currently becoming a priest and this was pretty much what he said. It's troubling for the church at first look (first thing like this in centuries!), but these are basically a whos-who of nobodies. Also, while he was sympathetic to other arguments, some were nonsensical.

 

[HomerThompson]

I wish he'd propagate the dissolution of all religion instead. Now that would be some story.

 

[unimackpass]

And like John before him, and James after him, excoriated the rich, and said they could not enter his kingdom, while giving out healing free of charge, in direct opposition to the Jewish priesthood.

But nope, he was a capitalist.

The Bible supports a strong work ethic and aspects of capitalism but with the motivation of being a generous person. Having said that it's on a personal level and not the government taking the place of personal responsibility. It was the life of the church to give people a hand up.
Proverbs is full of work ethics, personal responsibility and what happens if it's not part of someone's life.

2 thes 3
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.

 

[Lord Coke]

I'll be honest I am sort of hoping for a band of cardinals rising up with crosses embroiderered on their body armor laying siege to the Vatican
\

 

[franklinstower]

He would be back real quick. So I guess you could say he would eliminated problems, considering it would be the end of the world as we know it.

Massive problems with organized religion and the people in it aside, I have seen nothing so thoroughly transform peoples lives than authentic spirituality. I know a permanent sense of Joy and inspiration in this life. Every single year I become more loving, peaceful and joyful and most importantly, useful to others. I hate and resent no person or institution, every year my mind is more open to new ideas, intuition and creativity grow year by year. This has caused an immense amount of hope to fill me.

Its like a long slow Ayahuasca trip man! only its permanent, steady, and happens at a rate that I can integrate it into my marriage, fatherhood and work life. It is just freaking awesome. Not to mention the countless friends I know all growing in the same or similar ways.

I can honestly say that along with the gradual growth characteristic of most spiritual progress I have also had three radical leaps that changed me so deeply that it worried people at first, especially after the first one...

I learned all of this from Jesus and his present day disciples so I think it is fair to say that Jesus did care about helping people but addressed the problems at BOTH an internal and external level...

 

[unimackpass]

Well, to be fair, Jesus did not really seem to care about solving poverty, or any other problems, because his dad was going to return for judgement within the lifetimes of the people Jesus knew. So it seems obvious as to why he would not care to end the problem all together, instead of treating a litany of symptoms.

Actually Jesus spoke of the long term futcher of the Church going from the size of a mustard seed to a tree which doesn't happen within a couple of generations. This is linked to the end not coming till the gospel has reached every tongue tribe and nation which has not happened yet.
Some mission groups in church history have recognized this goal from the beginning.

http://blog.godreports.com/2014/12/great-commission-may-be-fulfilled-by-2020-experts-believe/

By Michael Ashcraft and Mark Ellis


“This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come.” (Matt.24:14)
Today, there are 1,600 unreached ethnic groups, the U.S. Center for World Mission estimates. About 300 new people groups are being engaged by missionary workers each year for the first time, according to David Taylor, a leader at the U.S. Center.

This means that by the year 2020 all remaining unreached groups will receive an introduction to the gospel, according to their projections.

Such a dramatic fulfillment of Bible prophecy (that the gospel will be preached to all peoples before the end will come, given in Matt.24 & 28) has been the quest of evangelicalism.

Undertaking the daunting task of reaching 3,000 unreached groups, a task force at the U.S. Center eight years ago began coordinating conferences, efforts and prayers to launch missionaries into the remaining unreached parts of the world.

“Within our lifetimes, we are going to be able to say that for the first time since Jesus gave the Great Commission, we have finished the task of ‘beginning’ – getting missionaries to every nation, tribe, people and language,” Taylor says.

“I can’t help but think, it is our generation that will witness the 2,000-year anniversary of the Great Commission given by our Lord Jesus,’” he says.

“Wouldn’t it be an amazing Christmas gift if by that time we will be able to say, ‘Here are the rewards of your suffering, people from every nation, tribe, people and language, worshipping and representing your name form Jerusalem to the ends of the earth,’” Taylor says. “We are closer than ever to that reality coming to pass.”

Founded in 1976, the U.S. Center for World Mission conducts research, innovates solutions to overcome barriers, and utilizes media to promote preaching of the gospel worldwide.

 

[Kframe]

I dont care at all if you do what Jesus said to do. I replied to you because you keep holding people to the words of Jesus. In another post you said "You catholics can twist yourselves all you want, but his words are clear." my emphasis added.

In answer to your second paragraph, again, Jesus is as concerned with your salvation and spiritual growth as he is with the poor when he says to feed and clothe them-- he also said that there would always be the poor so who said anything about lifting them out of poverty? If you really want to know why he said it, do what he said and find out.....or dont, I dont care. As far as the frauds go I think it is a non issue because if you follow the words of Jesus you end up knowing the poor and needy and then you know who to help.

How can you know them if they convincingly act the part.

 

[Kframe]

He supports you getting to know poor people, loving and supporting them.

Fuck the lazy they don't deserve money.. I only want to give to genuine poor. Not lazy ass frauds.

 

[franklinstower]

How can you know them if they convincingly act the part.

I think I meant getting to know people on a deeper level than stopping on a corner and asking "Are you really poor." But honestly if you dont want to do it-- dont.

 

[unimackpass]

Massive problems with organized religion and the people in it aside, I have seen nothing so thoroughly transform peoples lives than authentic spirituality. I know a permanent sense of Joy and inspiration in this life. Every single year I become more loving, peaceful and joyful and most importantly, useful to others. I hate and resent no person or institution, every year my mind is more open to new ideas, intuition and creativity grow year by year. This has caused an immense amount of hope to fill me.

Its like a long slow Ayahuasca trip man! only its permanent, steady, and happens at a rate that I can integrate it into my marriage, fatherhood and work life. It is just freaking awesome. Not to mention the countless friends I know all growing in the same or similar ways.

I can honestly say that along with the gradual growth characteristic of most spiritual progress I have also had three radical leaps that changed me so deeply that it worried people at first, especially after the first one...

I learned all of this from Jesus and his present day disciples so I think it is fair to say that Jesus did care about helping people but addressed the problems at BOTH an internal and external level...

Cool story bro, (not your run of the mill sherbro jaded "I hate god " storylines) refreshing.

 

[hillelslovak87]

The Bible supports a strong work ethic and aspects of capitalism but with the motivation of being a generous person. Having said that it's on a personal level and not the government taking the place of personal responsibility. It was the life of the church to give people a hand up.
Proverbs is full of work ethics, personal responsibility and what happens if it's not part of someone's life.

2 thes 3
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.

Context matters here. The Christians of that time knew the world would be ending real soon. They were poor subsistence farmers that left their only capital. So if they did not do their work, they literally would not eat. People moved from their farms into the city to await the second coming, and Paul, or whoever wrote the book, exhorted them to stop gossiping about the end, and do their normal duties, considering nobody knew exactly when it would be, save for the knowledge of Jesus saying it would be within the generation of the disciples.

 

[unimackpass]

No, this changes nothing, every tribe tongue and nation means just that.

Context matters here. The Christians of that time knew the world would be ending real soon. They were poor subsistence farmers that left their only capital. So if they did not do their work, they literally would not eat. People moved from their farms into the city to await the second coming, and Paul, or whoever wrote the book, exhorted them to stop gossiping about the end, and do their normal duties, considering nobody knew exactly when it would be, save for the knowledge of Jesus saying it would be within the generation of the disciples.

 

[Quipling]

Fuck the lazy they don't deserve money.. I only want to give to genuine poor. Not lazy ass frauds.

So volunteer at your local shelter or soup kitchen or something.

 

[hillelslovak87]

No, this changes nothing, every tribe tongue and nation means just that.

Well, shouldn't it, considering Jews were not the only christians at that point? It seems rather obvious that if you dont perform your job in the interim between Jesus and judgement, and go to the city to gossip about when it'll be, you dont eat? I dont see how that relates to charity within the 21st century representative republic.

 

[Kframe]

So volunteer at your local shelter or soup kitchen or something.

Is that a dwarf fortress map? How long did you last?

 

[unimackpass]

Well, shouldn't it, considering Jews were not the only christians at that point? It seems rather obvious that if you dont perform your job in the interim between Jesus and judgement, and go to the city to gossip about when it'll be, you dont eat? I dont see how that relates to charity within the 21st century representative republic.

To say this is about the second coming does violence to the text. It's about human nature.
Busybodies and not working is a universal principle that isn't reserved to the time of Paul's letter.

Charity should actually always be about helping people not just feeling good about a government program someone voted for.
Proverbs continually describes this condition and its results -
Proverbs 12:24 “The hand of the diligent will rule, while the slothful will be put to forced labor.”

"Here is clear evidence that hard work pays off and slothful ness does not. The diligent one who works hard will be the one who can be trusted to be in charge but the slothful one will be forced to labor for others, perhaps for the diligent one. Hard work pays off in the end. Most employers take notice of the one who works hard but also the one who doesn’t work hard (is slothful or lazy) usually doesn’t slip past the attention of the one who rules either (or is the boss)."


Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christ...le-verses-about-laziness/#extgiD4X7uDeoMbH.99

Second Thessalonians 3:6 “Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.”

Here Paul commands believers to avoid anyone “who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.” In other words, those who walk in idleness were apparently siphoning off of others who do work. This was not “in accord with the tradition that [they] received from” Paul. Paul later wrote “If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat” (2 Thess 3:10). These are the people we should avoid. There are so many “get rich” schemes out there that so many get entangled in because they simply don’t want to work hard like most people do. Paul commanded believers to “do their work quietly and to earn their own living” and not support the idle ones (2 Thess 3:12b).


Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christ...le-verses-about-laziness/#extgiD4X7uDeoMbH.99

 

[hillelslovak87]

To say this is about the second coming does violence to the text. It's about human nature.
Busybodies and not working is a universal principle that isn't reserved to the time of Paul's letter.

Charity should actually always be about helping people not just feeling good about a government program someone voted for.
Proverbs continually describes this condition and its results -
Proverbs 12:24 “The hand of the diligent will rule, while the slothful will be put to forced labor.”

"Here is clear evidence that hard work pays off and slothful ness does not. The diligent one who works hard will be the one who can be trusted to be in charge but the slothful one will be forced to labor for others, perhaps for the diligent one. Hard work pays off in the end. Most employers take notice of the one who works hard but also the one who doesn’t work hard (is slothful or lazy) usually doesn’t slip past the attention of the one who rules either (or is the boss)."


Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christ...le-verses-about-laziness/#extgiD4X7uDeoMbH.99

Second Thessalonians 3:6 “Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.”

Here Paul commands believers to avoid anyone “who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.” In other words, those who walk in idleness were apparently siphoning off of others who do work. This was not “in accord with the tradition that [they] received from” Paul. Paul later wrote “If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat” (2 Thess 3:10). These are the people we should avoid. There are so many “get rich” schemes out there that so many get entangled in because they simply don’t want to work hard like most people do. Paul commanded believers to “do their work quietly and to earn their own living” and not support the idle ones (2 Thess 3:12b).


Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christ...le-verses-about-laziness/#extgiD4X7uDeoMbH.99

Well, nobody is arguing against the fact that slothfulness is not good, and hard work is good. I see nothing especially compelling about this sentiment in the bible. Just because this is a good general rule of thumb does not preclude Paul from instructing christians to do their work, and not gossip about the second coming, considering Jesus said nobody, not even him, knows when this will happen. This is contradicted by him telling his disciples that it will happen within the lifetimes of some of them, but then again, Paul disagrees with a lot of things Jesus said when, as Paul puts it, "in the flesh".

On reading the text again, I agree with you on Paul's sentiment and goal in that passage. However, that proverb is odd.

 

[Quipling]

Is that a dwarf fortress map? How long did you last?

I had a while where I was "working" in college with nothing to do, so I had gotten to the point that I pretty much dont have problems outside of srs reanimation biomes no cage trap challenges. The first really memorable loss was a FB with necrosis syndrome. Didn't kill all my my dwarves directly. Some went insane from the miasma or got killed by various beasties invading my shambles of a fort.

I might try out the new version when it gets released.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I'll be honest I am sort of hoping for a band of cardinals rising up with crosses embroiderered on their body armor laying siege to the Vatican
\

 

[Lord Coke]

So volunteer at your local shelter or soup kitchen or something.

Funny you bring this up. I've volunteered with Habitat for Humanity to build homes in Mexico (TJ).
I am a big proponet of the wall and have been insulted for it. I always ask the white liberals what they have done. And the best they can do is some walk for charity they did for fun. I don't actually believe this but I tell them that I help in Mexico so that the conditions will be good enough that the Mexicans won't come over here.