Max Kellerman say USADA is corrupt:

[tenniswhiz]

Can you give an example? I'd like to see what it should look like.

Non-profit just means it’s for a “good” cause and what they charge for services won’t keep them afloat on its own. They get state funding and private funding.
Museums, educational institutions, some musical organizations, aid organizations, and various other services.

Yes, a non-profit can be corrupt and often there is a lot of money there.
But being a non-profit in no way suggests corruption.

 

[dim_]

what? this literally has nothing to do with MMA. He was only talking about it in the context of boxing, USADA has had a very sketchy rep in boxing way before UFC started using them.

Except they don't.

Boxing defines an anti doping program as sketchy if people get caught, if test numbers are published, if things are transparent

The boxing bodies have zero interest in cleaning up the sport. Absolutely zero. So they bring in a group that will create the impression of clean sport, make people think the boxing bodies are serious about it..

Some background on the vada guys.

Daamsgaard for instance ran internal anti doping programs for cycling teams. Cycling is a sport ridden with PED's. So teams would hire him to run their I'm house anti doping programs to prove they were clean.. Riders tested a few times, at pre-arranged times and locations, and ramsus for a few thousand dollars would put his name to it, say he ran x numbers of tests, the team riders are all clean, nothing to see here, and would move from team to team doing the same thing. Of course it was all bullshit. The teams weren't clean. None of them were.

But by doing tests at the right time, rd could stand up and say, all clean and to a degree the public lapped it up... Oh team x must be clean, they've got an internal anti doping program.. Horse shit.

When they created vada (with the deliberately misleading name, similar to Wada) all they did was scale up.

They still don't reveal how many tests are actually done. They still don't reveal how they monitor athlete whereabouts and if the tests are truly "surprise", they don't reveal how many times a fighter is tested, they don't provide data on how many samples tested for epo, or hgh, hboc etc... In fact, they don't release any information at all apart from "fighter x passed vada.. Is clean.. Nothing to see here"

It's a pr stunt. The same stunt they pulled in cycling, just scaled up. It is not, never was, and likely never will be, a serious anti doping program.

But of course boxers talk it up. Of course promoters talk it up. Of course fans talk it up and slate any opposing ideas, of course they do. They need to perpetuate the bullshit. No different to saxo tinkoff cycling team (who were all doping) shouting "hey we are clean, we even have an internal anti doping program, it must be true" but it was all horseshit. Vada are horseshit.


Of course it could be leveled at USADA or anyone, is it about clean sport or merely the impression of clean sport.. But at least USADA publish test data, numbers of tests, what analysis is done, and are overseen by someone (Wada) who monitors what they do.

There is none of that with vada. No data published, no oversight, no monitoring. They make claims of being Wada partners. Horseshit. They say they follow the Wada code but offer no evidence to show they actually do. They use the Wada prohibited list, so do nevada, texas, california, that means nothing. Anyone could use the Wada prohibited list. Doesn't make you credible.

The cornerstones of a credible anti doping program.

Procedure
Transparency
Oversight

There is no evidence that vada have ANY of those things in place

 

[Pinyin]

It's corrupt but not for the reasons they stated. I very strongly believe they are turning a blind eye to what goes on now at this new Performance (enhancing) Center, and UFC is using it as a lab to build fighters using steroids. Ngannou was their prototype, I think they give guys like him an exemption while they juice up and train there a while, come out a monster and crush everyone. It's in everyone's financial interest, thus it's probably happening.

Paulo Costa Borrachina or whatever he calls himself these days is an even better example.

These guys are on some high tech PEDS.

It's in the best financial interest of Ari Emmanuel.

 

[BrazilianDude]

To be honest my biggest issue as nobody can hold them accountable for what they do. Let's be realistic people can be corrupted and will do bad things for profit or just to mess with people because they have a inferiority complex what is stopping them from just saying the test is positive? What's stopping them from saying its negative.

Although I do not believe they take part in such activities I do believe they need to reform how they conduct themselves with a potential violation. They make that announcement and it makes the fighters suffer Financial damage and damage to there reputation that can never be recovered.

Good post.
I agree. There should be some kind of oversight and they should proceed differently about potential violations.

Imo if sample A tests positive, test sample B automaticaly with some kind of third party oversight and with a representative of the fighter. If sample B tests positive, only then you disclose the violation along with the substance.

 

[SPB]

Hmmm stoner? I don't think so. The Diaz inquiry was a witch hunt. Mob lawyers? Now who is wearing the tinfoil hat...

No, there was NO Witch Hunt. Nick Diaz was tested, failed the test, and chose to not answer any questions during his hearing. His legal team lied in the hearing, tried to obfuscate, and didn't realize they were dealing with people with more expertise than their "expert".

So Nick was given an appropriate punishment. After the UFC lawyers got involved he came back and asked for a second bite at the apple. This was granted, and with the Fertittas legal team he was granted some leeway.

If you don't think the Fertittas were Mob connected then you are a dope. If you don't think The Mob still has significant influence on what happens in politics in Nevada then you are just stupid.

 

[SPB]

Good post.
I agree. There should be some kind of oversight and they should proceed differently about potential violations.

Imo if sample A tests positive, test sample B automaticaly with some kind of third party oversight and with a representative of the fighter. If sample B tests positive, only then you disclose the violation along with the substance.

So you want to wait a month or more after the fight to disclose there was a positive in the pre-fight sample?

 

[Fluffernutter]

Max is a boxing guy.

Speaking of boxing, has Anthony Joshua been tested by USADA?

 

[dim_]

Good post.
I agree. There should be some kind of oversight and they should proceed differently about potential violations.

Thats not a USADA decision, thats the UFC that publishes the potentials. Basically when a fighter tests positive USADA are obliged to tell both the commission that licensed the fight and the UFC. The UFC then make that public, not USADA. its not USADA's decision at all.

With usada generally youy dont find out until after arbitration

Its 100% the UFC's call to make that public, not usada (and if they didnt the commissions would make it public anyway)

Imo if sample A tests positive, test sample B automaticaly with some kind of third party oversight and with a representative of the fighter.

thats EXACTLY what they do. Athletes have the full right to witness the analysis of the b-sample or send a representative to witness the analysis and the labs are overseen by a third party (WADA). The labs dont actually belong to USADA anyway.

 

[dim_]

Max is a boxing guy.

And he was a USADA shill till Golden Boy dumped his arse then he turned VADA shill

 

[NotoriousMillions]

I'm not expert on USADA [Far from it], but he makes some interesting points. I think this is relevant for UFC discussion seeing as so many fighters get their careers derailed by it.

His main point:

USADA is listed as a non-profit organisation but it's finances come from service contracts, which means that they are susceptible to the same corrupting forces that any for-profit organisation is. Seems like a conflict of interest no?

Edit: Now that there's a decent discussion going, I've removed the link of Mir that made ya'll click in the first place. He's probably just salty. I'd also guess most people have no idea who Kellerman is.

Anywho... Continue.

Boxing is corrupt.

 

[ortizgnp]

Jon is innocent.

- Kellerman










@Threetrees

 

[Eater of Souls]

USADA corrupt?

moonlanding.jpg

 

[Eater of Souls]

So you have evidence that USADA are running an Olympic doping program that Wada are ignoring?

Who regulates and overseas WADA?

Find me an organization where all are uncorrectable. Really.

As far as USADA, can I go on about the bullshit claims made by USADA officials with respect to "proof" and "catching" Lance Armstrong? Where was WADA when Tygart was lying like a fucking dog to the press? Or Novitsky's bullshit claims about "catching" baseball players (like Barry Bonds) which resulted in nothing other than costing taxpayers millions of dollars that could have been spent on things like education for kids or help for the needy?

Or their bullshit about ensuring a clean sport? I mean, nearly 50% of Olympic athletes anonymously surveyed report using banned substances, yet WADA catches how many? About 2%. Hell of a lot of money spent to fucking fail at that level. I am sure that at anywhere I was ever employed, I would be fired with about a 4% success ratio.

WADA sees what it wants to fucking see.

 

[Tanaku]

 

[Threetrees]

Jon is innocent.

- Kellerman










@Threetrees

 

[OlderMan]

Infowars? LMAO! you like Alex the cuck? Keep them conspiracy theories coming bro.

I suppose You voted for the Rapist eanbling, Treasonous Hillary? Or you believe CNN which is proven 80% bullllllllllllllshit.... You evidenty fell for the AntiTRUTH campaign by Progressives........aka communists. DUMBASS ZOMBIE

 

[dim_]

Who regulates and overseas WADA?

Well you can say that about anything. The buck generally stops somewhere. But it remains that USADA are monitored and oversean by another body

As far as USADA, can I go on about the bullshit claims made by USADA officials with respect to "proof" and "catching" Lance Armstrong? Where was WADA when Tygart was lying like a fucking dog to the press?

Uh? What?

Or Novitsky's bullshit claims about "catching" baseball players (like Barry Bonds) which resulted in nothing other than costing taxpayers millions of dollars that could have been spent on things like education for kids or help for the needy?

Millions of dollars? No.. Thats the sort of things that Lance had his shills spreading, that it cost millions of dollars to make it seem like a huge waste of resources. It wasnt even close to that. I read a number for the Armstrong case somewhere and it wasnt even a million. Thats including the federal investigation, AND the usada investigation. thats just something that those on the side of the dopers, on the side of Bons and Armstrong like to bandy around (With zero backing evidence) to try and perpetuate the "witch hunt" theories

Or their bullshit about ensuring a clean sport? I mean, nearly 50% of Olympic athletes anonymously surveyed report using banned substances, yet WADA catches how many? About 2%. Hell of a lot of money spent to fucking fail at that level. I am sure that at anywhere I was ever employed, I would be fired with about a 4% success ratio.
.

WADA, USADA, never claim to ensure clean sport. In fact USADA's role is primarily education. teaching athletes about how to compete clean and the virtues of clean sport. But nobody in anti doping will ever say they are ensuring clean sport. Not even close.

 

[dim_]

Who regulates and overseas WADA?

Find me an organization where all are uncorrectable. Really.

As far as USADA, can I go on about the bullshit claims made by USADA officials with respect to "proof" and "catching" Lance Armstrong? Where was WADA when Tygart was lying like a fucking dog to the press? Or Novitsky's bullshit claims about "catching" baseball players (like Barry Bonds) which resulted in nothing other than costing taxpayers millions of dollars that could have been spent on things like education for kids or help for the needy?

Or their bullshit about ensuring a clean sport? I mean, nearly 50% of Olympic athletes anonymously surveyed report using banned substances, yet WADA catches how many? About 2%. Hell of a lot of money spent to fucking fail at that level. I am sure that at anywhere I was ever employed, I would be fired with about a 4% success ratio.

WADA sees what it wants to fucking see.

ps, it wasnt "olympic" atheletes. from memory it was athletes at an asian games did that survey

 

[bandicoot]

isnt boxing corrupt

 

[Eater of Souls]

Well you can say that about anything. The buck generally stops somewhere. But it remains that USADA are monitored and oversean by another body

Correct. So your stating that because they are overseen by another org is pretty much meaningless.

Uh? What?

False claims to the press that USDAD had "proof" that Armstrong was dirty. You know, the proof that never quite materialized.

Millions of dollars? No.. Thats the sort of things that Lance had his shills spreading, that it cost millions of dollars to make it seem like a huge waste of resources. It wasnt even close to that. I read a number for the Armstrong case somewhere and it wasnt even a million. Thats including the federal investigation, AND the usada investigation. thats just something that those on the side of the dopers, on the side of Bons and Armstrong like to bandy around (With zero backing evidence) to try and perpetuate the "witch hunt" theories

There is an accounting of it in one of the gvt. CBO briefs. Sorry.

WADA, USADA, never claim to ensure clean sport. In fact USADA's role is primarily education. teaching athletes about how to compete clean and the virtues of clean sport. But nobody in anti doping will ever say they are ensuring clean sport. Not even close.

They should not even act like they are doing a good job. 4% success rate is not failure. It is your old man dragging you out back and physically adjusting your view of reality.

At the end of the day, the organization that you champion does a very, very shitty job.