Mass incarceration of African Americans affects the racial achievement gap — report

[ManCityFC9]

Pre-Civil Rights Act('60s and slavery age data(150 year+)) data as a level playing field with current data, it's obviously not. But the data is sufficient enough to look at large scale trends.

No one is marginalizing the effects. But if incomes are up, education is up and a variety of other factors are up at the same time that single motherhood is up then it doesn't make sense to say "Single motherhood is the scourge of the black community - you can tell because their rate of educational progress has grown high (with high school graduation rates now in line with Asian Americans). And because the rate of increase in incomes has kept pace with white America."

You can't look at all of the positive things happening in the AA community and then throw them all aside to say "Look at the damage of single motherhood." That is the problem with trying to boil down something as complex as this subject to a "Look at this individual stat - it must explain everything good/bad about a large group of dynamic individuals."

Perhaps the problem is less about single mothers and more about contaminated environments (that's the black white discrepancy in lead levels for preschoolers). It's well documented about how over-exposure to lead in drinking water leads to variety of problems in humans.

Or how the rate of incarceration over the same time period shows an huge rate decrease:

All of this is happening while the single mother stats are going up? How then can the increase in single mothers also coincide with a decrease in incarceration rates if the stat is a straightforward negative one? As I keep saying, it's far more complex than that.

I think we've already agreed that income has risen within black communities throughout history on a broad level

While all child poverty has gone down for all the other races, the level has stayed stagnant for AAs(~28%).

I've reiterated that there could be more factors/elements within this current cycle in the AA community (the aforementioned chart shows education as being a factor);
I'll explain in a bit, particularly the "cycle" I am attempting to define.

-Though the gap in high school graduation has narrowed between blacks and other races, the gap is still very large in terms of college degrees.

"Increasingly, a college degree is the key to financial well-being, while the value of a high school diploma has diminished markedly over time."
--Bachelor's degree attainment rates(53% Asian, 36% Caucasian, 23 % AAs)

Income- though we have settled, it has increased for AAs throughout history but is still an issue in today's time.

-"The income of households headed by blacks has persistently lagged behind that of white households since the U.S. Census Bureau began collecting these data in the late 1960s. In 2014, median black household income was about $43,300, while white household income was about $71,300."


While I see a significant factor being single parenthood(especially a current level of 70%;
--You mentioned cohabitating
http://www.unmarried.org/statistics/#parenting
-only 35% of black children were living with two parents

I have seen what the lack of a male role model has led to(in terms of incarceration, leadership), but a key factor in all this which correlates, is also the lack of income economic disparity still relevant today for AAs.
single parenthood>poverty>crime>incarceration>single parenting, etc.
-the fastest way to increase household income is to either be married or live with another adult.
-(only 35% of black children are living with two parents)
--Though this statistic may miss factors like child support, etc. There still is a direct relationship between poverty level and single parenthood among AAs, especially mothers as the parents... they are likely to live in poverty than their single father counterparts
---Could be due to the 7% female employment in STEM fields, who knows.(another topic)
I don't wish to make single parenthood a scapegoat and I have viewed your graphs and see there are multiple correlations that impact the problem
--I am only stating that the current level of single parenthood in the AA community is significantly higher than other races, as well as there still seems to be a stagnant rate in poverty among black youth; and poverty has been found to have a direct correlation to crime.

Even considering your lead point... with 70% single parent homes, how can one AA parent household expect to make enough money to move to a different district?
-Though I think local/state gov't should address lead poisoning but understand single parenthood has a direct correlation to poverty, which then leads to crime. They all feed into each other to create such a cycle.

Mitigation of one or more factors(increased hs graduation, increased opportunity, welfare amounts, etc.) doesn't discount that there are other factors

I think we may simply disagree one single parenthood impacts, but we can agree there are multiple facets to this problem, just there are certain disadvantages/conditions that lead to others.

you may have this source already, I saw one of your graphs on there
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016/06/27/1-demographic-trends-and-economic-well-being/
--I'm in the office dealing with SW updates and can't post pics/graphs atm.

 

[ManCityFC9]

Quite the opposite. My uncles were consistent fuckups to this day so I learned not to emulate them.

haha, fair enough.

Interesting as I have seen same sex(as the child) role models play a significant role on people I've known for a while; but maybe it is about the support system in general, regardless of sex(m or f)

 

[Rational Poster]

haha, fair enough.

Interesting as I have seen same sex(as the child) role models play a significant role on people I've known for a while; but maybe it is about the support system in general, regardless of sex(m or f)

Whoever is raising the child has to care for the child and show them legitimate unconditional love. That's what matters, as corny as it sounds.

 

[Drenalin]

You can never address underlying issues/factors if you are going to always dismiss them as "excuses". When people bring up broken families, it's not to make an excuse for a particular crime, it's to describe conditions where crime is more likely to come out of.

The issues that need to be addressed, need to be addressed by the people who are raising broken homes. At some point people need to take resposibiity for their own actions & the lives they live. Until people take some accountabilty, they'll never change. Everyone shouldn't need a guiding hand to know being a criminal is wrong. And all of this goes back to the fact that people should have a sense of right & wrong. That's what this is all about.

People do use their tough upbringing as an excuse & it's the easy way out in my opinion. Once again, the only difference between a criminal & a law abiding is a sense of right & wrong.

We can go on & on about all the reasons people are criminals, but it all boils down to the fact that they made a decision to commit a crime. For that they deal with the consequences. They're not victims

 

[panamaican]

I think we've already agreed that income has risen within black communities throughout history on a broad level

While all child poverty has gone down for all the other races, the level has stayed stagnant for AAs(~28%).

I've reiterated that there could be more factors/elements within this current cycle in the AA community (the aforementioned chart shows education as being a factor);
I'll explain in a bit, particularly the "cycle" I am attempting to define.

-Though the gap in high school graduation has narrowed between blacks and other races, the gap is still very large in terms of college degrees.

"Increasingly, a college degree is the key to financial well-being, while the value of a high school diploma has diminished markedly over time."
--Bachelor's degree attainment rates(53% Asian, 36% Caucasian, 23 % AAs)

Income- though we have settled, it has increased for AAs throughout history but is still an issue in today's time.

-"The income of households headed by blacks has persistently lagged behind that of white households since the U.S. Census Bureau began collecting these data in the late 1960s. In 2014, median black household income was about $43,300, while white household income was about $71,300."


While I see a significant factor being single parenthood(especially a current level of 70%;
--You mentioned cohabitating
http://www.unmarried.org/statistics/#parenting
-only 35% of black children were living with two parents

I have seen what the lack of a male role model has led to(in terms of incarceration, leadership), but a key factor in all this which correlates, is also the lack of income economic disparity still relevant today for AAs.
single parenthood>poverty>crime>incarceration>single parenting, etc.
-the fastest way to increase household income is to either be married or live with another adult.
-(only 35% of black children are living with two parents)
--Though this statistic may miss factors like child support, etc. There still is a direct relationship between poverty level and single parenthood among AAs, especially mothers as the parents... they are likely to live in poverty than their single father counterparts
---Could be due to the 7% female employment in STEM fields, who knows.(another topic)
I don't wish to make single parenthood a scapegoat and I have viewed your graphs and see there are multiple correlations that impact the problem
--I am only stating that the current level of single parenthood in the AA community is significantly higher than other races, as well as there still seems to be a stagnant rate in poverty among black youth; and poverty has been found to have a direct correlation to crime.

Even considering your lead point... with 70% single parent homes, how can one AA parent household expect to make enough money to move to a different district?
-Though I think local/state gov't should address lead poisoning but understand single parenthood has a direct correlation to poverty, which then leads to crime. They all feed into each other to create such a cycle.

Mitigation of one or more factors(increased hs graduation, increased opportunity, welfare amounts, etc.) doesn't discount that there are other factors

I think we may simply disagree one single parenthood impacts, but we can agree there are multiple facets to this problem, just there are certain disadvantages/conditions that lead to others.

you may have this source already, I saw one of your graphs on there
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016/06/27/1-demographic-trends-and-economic-well-being/
--I'm in the office dealing with SW updates and can't post pics/graphs atm.

I'm going to repeat my previous point because I don't feel as if it was directly answered (perhaps it was and I simply misunderstood it).

Given the entire range of upward trends in the black community over the same period that the unwed birth rate was rising, what is the link between them (the rising unwed birth rate and the continuously improving community)?

Similarly on higher education: http://www.jbhe.com/features/50_blackstudent_gradrates.html

(A very good read, btw, if you're interested in black student outcomes at elite colleges over time)

Black college graduation rates are increasing while single mother rates are as well. What is the explanation for those things moving in a direction that contravenes conventional wisdom?

On the issue of incomes, there's no disagreement. Low income households generally result in lower outcomes for the kids. But, again, how does one parse out low income as a result of a single factor, such as unwed mothers, when the issue of slavery and Jim Crow has meant that black families were consigned to lower incomes relative to the mainstream regardless of birth rates. Since the removal of the artificial barrier, outcomes have continuously improved. They haven't "caught up" to the mainstream figures but they're also less than 60 years in. You have years to go before you have a population where no one living under Jim Crow is still alive.

You'll note the incarceration figures I included. incarceration rates for black people under the age of 35 are down significantly for every cohort. Rising single mothers...lower incarceration rates. Again, outcomes that are running contrary to conventional wisdom.

Conventional wisdom says that rising rates of single mothers should result in outcomes that run contrary to what we are seeing but no one is explaining the discrepancy (well, except me, and I'm saying the single mother rate's relevance is overstated).

 

[n...not crazy]

Not really sure what I'm supposed to do about this. I'll think about it and get back to you. Gotta head up to the grocery store, pick up my kids, stuff like that.

 

[FIMN]

The level of taxation that the US is just a deceptive facade for a socialist agenda to me.
-Obama saying "you didn't work for that, your parents did" (referring to estate tax(40% at some levels))
-35% tax rate on businesses/corporations
-people saying "the rich need to pay more"
--you'd hear this daily in DC, even with people making 6 figures("millionaires need to pay more")

Obamacare and current GOP healthcare is heading toward socialized medicine
(which I am not against at this point; might force the gov't to put pharmaceutical companies in check)

Stop and frisk occurred at high levels during the downtrend of crime in NYC, though many reports would say there were other factors, I'd disagree and say stop and frisk was a significant part.
(yeah it was profiling against minorities but typically within neighborhoods with either high crime, or posh neighborhoods where many drug deals went down)
-Few of my friends would be more concerned with police and it happened to a caucasian group of guys on my track team who subsequently ceased dealing.(I am from Brooklyn)

BLM has been a bit too anti-blue for my liking, I have hope for them; I'd really need to see some significant policy suggestions(not only on a national scale to congress, but even in municipalities like Chicago or Detroit)

The only thing I can tell you is you have seemingly swallowed a lot of propaganda about what socialism is and how Obama is somehow a socialist based on section quotes as opposed to 8 years of supporting actual policies and governing as a centrist. Arguing for a more progressive tax rate does not make you a socialist.

BLM associated groups do meet with politicians all the time I'm sure. But again, you wouldn't care because it doesn't fit your narrative.

8 years of Obama and Mr Selfie in Canada will do that.

Oh no, moderate centrist governance? Let's elect an unqualified lying buffoon with no policies to resolve the situation.

 

[FIMN]

That's hilarious considering they looted and burned down about a dozen cities with impunity. ..All while the sorry ass msm pretended that they were freedom fighters. Your mind is warped dude.

What, en masses? All of BLM, as a collective? Praised by the media?

You are deluded.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I have thought it through and I have know both addicts and dealers. Are you actually taking the side of the drug cartels and saying they are just doing business?

You know cartel members? Or do you mean the same garden-variety dealers I had in mind? I'm not taking any side, hence my comment that it was funny how the two sides were viewed differently when it comes to severity of punishment.

 

[IDL]

Exactly. While it's true that children of 2 parent homes are better off economically at age 40 than children from single parent homes. It's not the aspect of marriage that conveys the benefit. It's the parenting skills (such as more time for engagement) and increased income that convey the benefit.

This matters because if you can duplicate the income and/or time for child engagement via other models, such as extended families, then the outcomes are pretty much the same.

Time and money, not marriage itself.

I think the idea is that one thing is more likely to lead to another. So Marriage as a social contract and something viewed as valuable is more likely to lead to commitment to certain shared goals. and thus create a more nurturing / constructive environment leading to better outcomes for children.

So you could I suppose extract out of that, that really what you want is two committed adults. Marriage is a cultural framework that encourages that and adds more social responsibility.

 

[oldshadow]

You know cartel members? Or do you mean the same garden-variety dealers I had in mind? I'm not taking any side, hence my comment that it was funny how the two sides were viewed differently when it comes to severity of punishment.

One side is in it to make money from others misery and addiction.

 

[bobgeese]

Maybe if their dads weren't in prison because the U.S. government declared war on them over harmless "crimes" the youths would have more guidance you goof

Their decisions had consequences. If they ruined two generations of their family, it's completely their fault.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

One side is in it to make money from others misery and addiction.

Most illegal drug users are happy with their purchases. I'd say the vast majority, based on me always seeing people happy when they score. Sounds like you don't want to hold people accountable, based on you viewing the purchase as doing something beyond their control. Which is funny, for all your talk in the gun threads about criminal control.

It's not like there isn't a need to make money in this world. Go ahead and stop cold turkey. See how you do.

 

[SafeSpace]

Blame failed liberal policy that targets black men into incarceration and encourages women into being paid incubators...

 

[Gandhi]

It's a difficult subject. On one hand, the crime rate has decreased drastically since the 1970's, near 1950's (segregation) levels. On the other hand, the amount of people incarcerated is at an all-time high. And a large percentage of them represent minorities.

If many of these people were suddenly granted clemency for minor crimes, it is likely that the crime rates would again drastically increase. Only a life of petty crime would be awaiting them.

I suppose the only solution is to gradually re-work America's prison justice to be more rehabiliating (for minor criminals) than punishing. But it's a long process.

Thoughtful post at least

But do you really think the drop in crime is attributable the record level of criminals serving time for minor offenses?

The data seems to say it provides a minor part of the explanation and given how criminal behavior is often worsened by prison time, the overall effect could be negative.

Agree with the last para except why be gradual, start changing the system now.

 

[moneyfight]

Blame failed liberal policy that targets black men into incarceration and encourages women into being paid incubators...

Then why do black people in America constantly vote liberal?

 

[ManCityFC9]

I'm going to repeat my previous point because I don't feel as if it was directly answered (perhaps it was and I simply misunderstood it).

Given the entire range of upward trends in the black community over the same period that the unwed birth rate was rising, what is the link between them (the rising unwed birth rate and the continuously improving community)?

Similarly on higher education: http://www.jbhe.com/features/50_blackstudent_gradrates.html

(A very good read, btw, if you're interested in black student outcomes at elite colleges over time)

Black college graduation rates are increasing while single mother rates are as well. What is the explanation for those things moving in a direction that contravenes conventional wisdom?

On the issue of incomes, there's no disagreement. Low income households generally result in lower outcomes for the kids. But, again, how does one parse out low income as a result of a single factor, such as unwed mothers, when the issue of slavery and Jim Crow has meant that black families were consigned to lower incomes relative to the mainstream regardless of birth rates. Since the removal of the artificial barrier, outcomes have continuously improved. They haven't "caught up" to the mainstream figures but they're also less than 60 years in. You have years to go before you have a population where no one living under Jim Crow is still alive.

You'll note the incarceration figures I included. incarceration rates for black people under the age of 35 are down significantly for every cohort. Rising single mothers...lower incarceration rates. Again, outcomes that are running contrary to conventional wisdom.

Conventional wisdom says that rising rates of single mothers should result in outcomes that run contrary to what we are seeing but no one is explaining the discrepancy (well, except me, and I'm saying the single mother rate's relevance is overstated).

Even though socio-economic averages have been trending in a better direction over the past half century, Single-parenthood is still a significant bit of obstruction towards socio-economic progression and wealth gain.
-Black wealth is not as significant as you'd like to believe, with massive student loan debts compared to caucasians, single parenthood at 70% may be more significant than you think.
-short article - https://www.brookings.edu/blog/soci.../01/15/five-bleak-facts-on-black-opportunity/

You are stating that things are not as grim and AAs socio-economically are trending in the right direction irregardless of single-parenthood, I'd say take some things into consideration;

high levels of single-parenthood correlate with:
lower income> AAs inhabiting areas with historically low upward mobility trends > poverty(child poverty stagnating only for AAs)>large incarceration rates, all correlate with each other, creates a cycle of sorts;

one fact that does remain is that the family structure has been a meaningful way to increase wealth in American society for ages
-The fastest way to improve soci-economic status is to in fact be married

--Now to you're question(about time right?)
The AA community is improving socio-economically but who exactly, Women; AA women represent the bulk of the trend you have mentioned (AA males are also improving but at a much slower rate)
-higher AA college enrollment rates have helped socio-economic progression
-But AAs do take out more student loans(single parenthood might exacerbate this) - https://www.theatlantic.com/educati...en-of-student-loan-debt-on-minorities/392456/
-Obama student loan forgiveness; (i.e. exempted interest payments)

Another factor that helps mitigate the effects of single parent homes and also aides with the upward AA community trend you mention.
-Gov't spending on means tested welfare has increased by 32% under the Obama administration
Key expenses that help manage single parent homes and also go directly to women of need include SNAP, WIC, Pell Grants, other education programs that are under welfare(there are a few, though not public education) have all increased during Obama's tenure and has definitely help with supplement the trends you've mentioned.
--40% of AA women receive welfare as opposed to 20% of AA males
--The other races take welfare at a lower rate.(19%/11% = White females/white men)

I'd say the aformentioned accounts for a substantial portion of circumventing the obstruction of a 70% single-parenthood

Trending in the righ direction but at what cost? Increased debt, welfare dependency that is likely to be cut?
-I am curious to see the effects of a republican budget.

 

[kahiljabroni]

Thoughtful post at least

But do you really think the drop in crime is attributable the record level of criminals serving time for minor offenses?

The data seems to say it provides a minor part of the explanation and given how criminal behavior is often worsened by prison time, the overall effect could be negative.

Agree with the last para except why be gradual, start changing the system now.

I honestly have never known someone to get prison for a minor offense. I've known many people who should have been in prison but got probation instead

 

[oldshadow]

Most illegal drug users are happy with their purchases. I'd say the vast majority, based on me always seeing people happy when they score. Sounds like you don't want to hold people accountable, based on you viewing the purchase as doing something beyond their control. Which is funny, for all your talk in the gun threads about criminal control.

It's not like there isn't a need to make money in this world. Go ahead and stop cold turkey. See how you do.

We are not going to see eye to eye on this as I see hard drug dealers as scum.

Criminal control is locking up dealers and helping users.

As far as guns, I'm all for locking up for a long time felons in possession of a gun and anyone that makes a straw purchase for a felony. They are scum also.

 

[Philo-Publius]

Consider:

* By the age of 14, approximately 25 percent of African American children have experienced a parent — in most cases a father — being imprisoned for some period of time. On any given school day, approximately 10 percent of African American schoolchildren have a parent who is in jail or prison, more than four times the share in 1980.

* The comparable share for white children is 4 percent; an African American child is six times as likely as a white child to have or have had an incarcerated parent.

* A growing share of African Americans have been arrested for drug crimes, yet African Americans are no more likely than whites to sell or use drugs. Of imprisoned fathers of African American children, only one-third are in prison because of a violent crime.

* Research in criminal justice, health, sociology, epidemiology, and economics demonstrates that when parents are incarcerated, children do worse across cognitive and noncognitive outcome measures — and the incarceration is a key cause. For example, children of incarcerated parents are more likely to drop out of school; develop learning disabilities; misbehave in school; suffer from migraines, asthma, high cholesterol, depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder and homelessness.

[The reason America’s schools are so segregated — and the only way to fix it]

Those are findings from a new report released by the nonprofit Economic Policy Institute that says the “evidence is overwhelming that the unjustified incarceration of African American fathers (and, increasingly, mothers as well) is an important cause of the lowered performance of their children” and of the racial achievement gap.

When parents are imprisoned, it is not only they who suffer, but also their offspring. The number of children affected has grown to the point that we can reasonably infer that our criminal justice system is making an important contribution to the racial achievement gap in both cognitive and noncognitive skills.

The report also says that educators should view criminal justice reform as a key part of school reform and join forces with reformers in the area of criminal justice.

Educators have paid too little heed to this criminal justice crisis. Criminal justice reform should be a policy priority for educators who are committed to improving the achievement of African American children. While reform of federal policy may seem implausible in a Trump administration, educators can seize opportunities for such advocacy at state and local levels because many more parents are incarcerated in state than in federal prisons. In 2014, over 700,000 prisoners nationwide were serving sentences of a year or longer for nonviolent crimes. Over 600,000 of these were in state, not federal, prisons.

[From Ferguson to Baltimore: The consequences of government-sponsored segregation]

The report was done by Leila Morsy and Richard Rothstein, both of the Economic Policy Institute, a nonprofit organization created in 1986 to broaden the discussion about economic policy to include the interests of low- and middle-income workers. Morsy is a senior lecturer in education at the School of Education at the University of New South Wales, and a research associate at EPI. Rothstein is also an EPI research associate as well as a senior fellow at the Thurgood Marshall Institute of the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, Inc., and author of the forthcoming “The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America.” A former national education writer for the New York Times, Rothstein also has written books that include “Grading Education: Getting Accountability Right,” and “Class and Schools: Using Social, Economic and Educational Reform to Close the Black-White Achievement Gap.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...chievement-gap-report/?utm_term=.254f366da760

^Full 24 page report inside link.

Sherdog what is the solution for Americas epidemic of African mass incarceration?

Did the drop in murder and violent crime rates over the last few decades justify this?

It is a problem. We need to find a way to imprison less non-violent offenders. We have too many people in prison.