Mass incarceration of African Americans affects the racial achievement gap — report | Page 16

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by moneyfight, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. ManCityFC9 Blue Belt

    ManCityFC9
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    I think we've already agreed that income has risen within black communities throughout history on a broad level
    [​IMG]

    While all child poverty has gone down for all the other races, the level has stayed stagnant for AAs(~28%).

    I've reiterated that there could be more factors/elements within this current cycle in the AA community (the aforementioned chart shows education as being a factor);
    I'll explain in a bit, particularly the "cycle" I am attempting to define.

    -Though the gap in high school graduation has narrowed between blacks and other races, the gap is still very large in terms of college degrees.

    "Increasingly, a college degree is the key to financial well-being, while the value of a high school diploma has diminished markedly over time."
    --Bachelor's degree attainment rates(53% Asian, 36% Caucasian, 23 % AAs)

    Income- though we have settled, it has increased for AAs throughout history but is still an issue in today's time.

    -"The income of households headed by blacks has persistently lagged behind that of white households since the U.S. Census Bureau began collecting these data in the late 1960s. In 2014, median black household income was about $43,300, while white household income was about $71,300."


    While I see a significant factor being single parenthood(especially a current level of 70%;
    --You mentioned cohabitating
    http://www.unmarried.org/statistics/#parenting
    -only 35% of black children were living with two parents

    I have seen what the lack of a male role model has led to(in terms of incarceration, leadership), but a key factor in all this which correlates, is also the lack of income economic disparity still relevant today for AAs.
    single parenthood>poverty>crime>incarceration>single parenting, etc.
    -the fastest way to increase household income is to either be married or live with another adult.
    -(only 35% of black children are living with two parents)
    --Though this statistic may miss factors like child support, etc. There still is a direct relationship between poverty level and single parenthood among AAs, especially mothers as the parents... they are likely to live in poverty than their single father counterparts
    ---Could be due to the 7% female employment in STEM fields, who knows.(another topic)
    I don't wish to make single parenthood a scapegoat and I have viewed your graphs and see there are multiple correlations that impact the problem
    --I am only stating that the current level of single parenthood in the AA community is significantly higher than other races, as well as there still seems to be a stagnant rate in poverty among black youth; and poverty has been found to have a direct correlation to crime.

    Even considering your lead point... with 70% single parent homes, how can one AA parent household expect to make enough money to move to a different district?
    -Though I think local/state gov't should address lead poisoning but understand single parenthood has a direct correlation to poverty, which then leads to crime. They all feed into each other to create such a cycle.

    Mitigation of one or more factors(increased hs graduation, increased opportunity, welfare amounts, etc.) doesn't discount that there are other factors

    I think we may simply disagree one single parenthood impacts, but we can agree there are multiple facets to this problem, just there are certain disadvantages/conditions that lead to others.

    you may have this source already, I saw one of your graphs on there
    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016/06/27/1-demographic-trends-and-economic-well-being/
    --I'm in the office dealing with SW updates and can't post pics/graphs atm.
     
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  2. ManCityFC9 Blue Belt

    ManCityFC9
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    haha, fair enough.

    Interesting as I have seen same sex(as the child) role models play a significant role on people I've known for a while; but maybe it is about the support system in general, regardless of sex(m or f)
     
    #302
  3. Rational Poster Ascended Super Liberal

    Rational Poster
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    Whoever is raising the child has to care for the child and show them legitimate unconditional love. That's what matters, as corny as it sounds.
     
    #303
  4. Drenalin Black Belt

    Drenalin
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    The issues that need to be addressed, need to be addressed by the people who are raising broken homes. At some point people need to take resposibiity for their own actions & the lives they live. Until people take some accountabilty, they'll never change. Everyone shouldn't need a guiding hand to know being a criminal is wrong. And all of this goes back to the fact that people should have a sense of right & wrong. That's what this is all about.

    People do use their tough upbringing as an excuse & it's the easy way out in my opinion. Once again, the only difference between a criminal & a law abiding is a sense of right & wrong.

    We can go on & on about all the reasons people are criminals, but it all boils down to the fact that they made a decision to commit a crime. For that they deal with the consequences. They're not victims
     
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  5. panamaican Forum Moderator

    panamaican
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    I'm going to repeat my previous point because I don't feel as if it was directly answered (perhaps it was and I simply misunderstood it).

    Given the entire range of upward trends in the black community over the same period that the unwed birth rate was rising, what is the link between them (the rising unwed birth rate and the continuously improving community)?

    Similarly on higher education: http://www.jbhe.com/features/50_blackstudent_gradrates.html

    (A very good read, btw, if you're interested in black student outcomes at elite colleges over time)

    Black college graduation rates are increasing while single mother rates are as well. What is the explanation for those things moving in a direction that contravenes conventional wisdom?
    [​IMG]

    On the issue of incomes, there's no disagreement. Low income households generally result in lower outcomes for the kids. But, again, how does one parse out low income as a result of a single factor, such as unwed mothers, when the issue of slavery and Jim Crow has meant that black families were consigned to lower incomes relative to the mainstream regardless of birth rates. Since the removal of the artificial barrier, outcomes have continuously improved. They haven't "caught up" to the mainstream figures but they're also less than 60 years in. You have years to go before you have a population where no one living under Jim Crow is still alive.

    You'll note the incarceration figures I included. incarceration rates for black people under the age of 35 are down significantly for every cohort. Rising single mothers...lower incarceration rates. Again, outcomes that are running contrary to conventional wisdom.

    Conventional wisdom says that rising rates of single mothers should result in outcomes that run contrary to what we are seeing but no one is explaining the discrepancy (well, except me, and I'm saying the single mother rate's relevance is overstated).
     
    #305
  6. n...not crazy Red Belt

    n...not crazy
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    Not really sure what I'm supposed to do about this. I'll think about it and get back to you. Gotta head up to the grocery store, pick up my kids, stuff like that.
     
    #306
  7. FIMN Brown Belt

    FIMN
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    The only thing I can tell you is you have seemingly swallowed a lot of propaganda about what socialism is and how Obama is somehow a socialist based on section quotes as opposed to 8 years of supporting actual policies and governing as a centrist. Arguing for a more progressive tax rate does not make you a socialist.

    BLM associated groups do meet with politicians all the time I'm sure. But again, you wouldn't care because it doesn't fit your narrative.

    Oh no, moderate centrist governance? Let's elect an unqualified lying buffoon with no policies to resolve the situation.
     
    #307
  8. FIMN Brown Belt

    FIMN
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    What, en masses? All of BLM, as a collective? Praised by the media?

    You are deluded.
     
    #308
  9. Cubo de Sangre Gold Belt

    Cubo de Sangre
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    You know cartel members? Or do you mean the same garden-variety dealers I had in mind? I'm not taking any side, hence my comment that it was funny how the two sides were viewed differently when it comes to severity of punishment.
     
    #309
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  10. IDL Gold Belt

    IDL
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    I think the idea is that one thing is more likely to lead to another. So Marriage as a social contract and something viewed as valuable is more likely to lead to commitment to certain shared goals. and thus create a more nurturing / constructive environment leading to better outcomes for children.

    So you could I suppose extract out of that, that really what you want is two committed adults. Marriage is a cultural framework that encourages that and adds more social responsibility.
     
    #310
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  11. oldshadow Gold Belt

    oldshadow
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    One side is in it to make money from others misery and addiction.
     
    #311
  12. bobgeese Black Belt

    bobgeese
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    Their decisions had consequences. If they ruined two generations of their family, it's completely their fault.
     
    #312
  13. Cubo de Sangre Gold Belt

    Cubo de Sangre
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    Most illegal drug users are happy with their purchases. I'd say the vast majority, based on me always seeing people happy when they score. Sounds like you don't want to hold people accountable, based on you viewing the purchase as doing something beyond their control. Which is funny, for all your talk in the gun threads about criminal control.

    It's not like there isn't a need to make money in this world. Go ahead and stop cold turkey. See how you do.
     
    #313
  14. SafeSpace social jihad warrior

    SafeSpace
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    Blame failed liberal policy that targets black men into incarceration and encourages women into being paid incubators...
     
    #314
  15. Gandhi Birdie num nums

    Gandhi
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    Thoughtful post at least

    But do you really think the drop in crime is attributable the record level of criminals serving time for minor offenses?

    The data seems to say it provides a minor part of the explanation and given how criminal behavior is often worsened by prison time, the overall effect could be negative.

    Agree with the last para except why be gradual, start changing the system now.
     
    #315
  16. moneyfight Double Yellow Card

    moneyfight
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    Then why do black people in America constantly vote liberal?
     
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  17. ManCityFC9 Blue Belt

    ManCityFC9
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    Even though socio-economic averages have been trending in a better direction over the past half century, Single-parenthood is still a significant bit of obstruction towards socio-economic progression and wealth gain.
    -Black wealth is not as significant as you'd like to believe, with massive student loan debts compared to caucasians, single parenthood at 70% may be more significant than you think.
    -short article - https://www.brookings.edu/blog/soci.../01/15/five-bleak-facts-on-black-opportunity/

    You are stating that things are not as grim and AAs socio-economically are trending in the right direction irregardless of single-parenthood, I'd say take some things into consideration;

    high levels of single-parenthood correlate with:
    lower income> AAs inhabiting areas with historically low upward mobility trends > poverty(child poverty stagnating only for AAs)>large incarceration rates, all correlate with each other, creates a cycle of sorts;

    one fact that does remain is that the family structure has been a meaningful way to increase wealth in American society for ages
    -The fastest way to improve soci-economic status is to in fact be married

    --Now to you're question(about time right?)
    The AA community is improving socio-economically but who exactly, Women; AA women represent the bulk of the trend you have mentioned (AA males are also improving but at a much slower rate)
    -higher AA college enrollment rates have helped socio-economic progression
    -But AAs do take out more student loans(single parenthood might exacerbate this) - https://www.theatlantic.com/educati...en-of-student-loan-debt-on-minorities/392456/
    -Obama student loan forgiveness; (i.e. exempted interest payments)

    Another factor that helps mitigate the effects of single parent homes and also aides with the upward AA community trend you mention.
    -Gov't spending on means tested welfare has increased by 32% under the Obama administration
    Key expenses that help manage single parent homes and also go directly to women of need include SNAP, WIC, Pell Grants, other education programs that are under welfare(there are a few, though not public education) have all increased during Obama's tenure and has definitely help with supplement the trends you've mentioned.
    --40% of AA women receive welfare as opposed to 20% of AA males
    --The other races take welfare at a lower rate.(19%/11% = White females/white men)

    I'd say the aformentioned accounts for a substantial portion of circumventing the obstruction of a 70% single-parenthood

    Trending in the righ direction but at what cost? Increased debt, welfare dependency that is likely to be cut?
    -I am curious to see the effects of a republican budget.
     
    #317
  18. kahiljabroni Brown Belt

    kahiljabroni
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    I honestly have never known someone to get prison for a minor offense. I've known many people who should have been in prison but got probation instead
     
    #318
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  19. oldshadow Gold Belt

    oldshadow
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    We are not going to see eye to eye on this as I see hard drug dealers as scum.

    Criminal control is locking up dealers and helping users.

    As far as guns, I'm all for locking up for a long time felons in possession of a gun and anyone that makes a straw purchase for a felony. They are scum also.
     
    #319
  20. fonzob1 Black Belt

    fonzob1
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    It is a problem. We need to find a way to imprison less non-violent offenders. We have too many people in prison.
     
    #320

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