1. Newly retired UFC Bantamweight & UK legend, Brad "One Punch" Pickett joins us LIVE on WEDNESDAY at 3:00 PM ET / 8:00 PM UK time. Check it out here.
    Dismiss Notice

Mass incarceration of African Americans affects the racial achievement gap — report | Page 17

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by moneyfight, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. ManCityFC9 Orange Belt

    ManCityFC9
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2017
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    486
    Location:
    DC
    It's not so much propaganda, I just have not seen meaningful results or significant changes in the democratic agenda.
    Until education reform comes to help mitigate society's issues, I'd rather not spend as much.
    -Socialized medicine is one that I'd accept just to keep medical costs down or at least managed fairly; I'd imagine it would be easier if congress would pass legislation that would bring on competition
    -(prescription drug purchases in canada at half the cost)
    -also might help control the cost disparity for the same procedures.

    I dont have a narrative, I try and learn as I go, keeping an open mind of course

    As far as voting for Trump, He got my vote for the sheer mold breaking of what is defined as "presidential" and the whole political scheme/environment of stagnation going on in Washington now.
    -The current healthcare bill is catching flak, but I voted him in to go along with the tough decisions
    (non-discretionary spending cuts and restructuring in this political climate would make him a historical president.)
    --No sense in spending without seeing meaningful changes for the better...

    rather take our time as a country and develop a sound strategy; look into waste and abuse and ineffective programs and inefficiencies to fix.
    -tough to do that when every time an official says "we need this...", we oblige.

    BLM has still maintained a scope of police brutality
    -this has had some success, I think more police are using dash and body cams, and these are used to review officers' conduct during controversial situation.
    --But was as happened since?
    How why have they seemed to fade from national media attention in a time where all MSM is doing all it can to criticize the current administration.

    Like I stated, i'm open and hopeful, but this anti-blue parade will lead no where further and they need to broaden their scope.
    <Fedor23>
     
    #321
    S Class likes this.
  2. Gandhi Birdie num nums

    Gandhi
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    14,905
    Likes Received:
    2,913
    Location:
    MTL in ORLANDO
    Well good thing my point is not based on your personal experience :)
     
    #322
  3. dfoster Yellow Card

    dfoster
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,667
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    the people who "do 20 years for smoking weed" have a lot of prior. The last offense is the straw that breaks the camel's back.
     
    #323
    Palis likes this.
  4. kahiljabroni Purple Belt

    kahiljabroni
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    2,267
    Likes Received:
    905
    Define minor then.
     
    #324
  5. Cubo de Sangre Gold Belt

    Cubo de Sangre
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    19,221
    Likes Received:
    10,416
    Location:
    Hell
    Users aren't victims. Have a good one.
     
    #325
  6. panamaican Steel Belt

    panamaican
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    25,513
    Likes Received:
    8,234
    I never said it was significant black wealth. I said it was moving in the right direction, despite what rising unwed birth rates would suggest

    But was that because of Jim Crow or unwed mothers? Because it's improved after Jim Crow, despite what the unwed birth rate would suggest.

    Actually, the most meaningful way to increase wealth in American society has been home/land ownership. Something where access has only recently change for black America.

    Okay, this is basically a "They could be even better" argument. Perhaps. It's impossible to debate. You're looking at positive outcomes and then arguing how much more positive they could be.

    The student loan issue is a great example. One way students avoid significant loans is when their parents use existing home equity to offset those costs, either by re-financing or the use of the Home Equity Line of Credit. That option is not available to students who's parent do not own homes or do not own homes with enough surplus equity. Given that African-Americans were systematically kept out of quality home ownership until recently, it's not surprising that the children of those African Americans would not have parental home equity available to them for reducing student debt load. But that again traces back to the issues with Jim Crow.

    So, the argument becomes partially one of determining if black families would have bought better houses solely as a result of fewer unwed birth rates. Well, given when Jim Crow ended, combined with the time it takes to build equity in a property and based on the quality of properties available to black families of the era, I don't think the student loan issue is related to unwed mothers.

    That's not to say other things wouldn't be better but I don't think that's one of them. But you'd have to sit down and actually reverse engineer all of these to get to an answer.

    Since I'm already doing it, we can look at incomes. Since the end of Jim Crow, black incomes have risen directly in line with white incomes. Meaning that if white incomes went up 10%, so did black ones. The income gap hasn't shrunk but it hasn't grown either. It haven't changed since Jim Crow. So, if the current wage gap is pretty much identical to the previous wage gap but the unwed mother birth rate has increased, it's hard to see how the unwed mother rate would be responsible unless negatives are perfectly offsetting positives. The simplest explanation is that black incomes are rising in line with white incomes, since Jim Crow, because they're both reaping equal rates of gain from the economy and the only difference is that they started with different incomes in the first place.
     
    #326
  7. ManCityFC9 Orange Belt

    ManCityFC9
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2017
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    486
    Location:
    DC
     
    #327
  8. ManCityFC9 Orange Belt

    ManCityFC9
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2017
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    486
    Location:
    DC
    I cant continue to blame old Jim Crow segregated America, look at a widening wealth gap, stagnating child poverty for AAs and say single parenthood is not a key obstruction.
    -wealth gap was constant before the housing burst but is widening again, since 2007

    tank/2014/12/12/racial-wealth-gaps-great

    I'd say govt aide/programs, and increased access to (student and home) loans were key factors that mitigated/hid the obstruction of a single parent home for the AA community

    Wealth gap is as large as ever between AAs and Caucasians, though income gaps are closing.
    -part of the reason has to do with AA location and these region's historically low rate of upward mobility.

    Now we may have come to a "chicken or the egg" predicament between our dispositions...
    married couples have always held tremendous wealth advantage over single/divorced individuals.
    -I'd put the order of wealth improvement and socio-economic success with marriage first, then home ownership
    -you'd have a counter argument due to the increased home purchases of single parent(mothers again lead fathers in this category), but whose home appreciates more over time and has a much higher probability of being kept?
    - single parents have to purchase lower valued homes with much slower rates of appreciation

    Student loan debt levels denote,
    -AA access to student loans, in turn leading to education

    These are key to the income gaps closing but something is still missing when you factor in a growing wealth disparity and a decrease in child poverty for all races but AAs (though a higher % of AAs receive aide) ;

    I'd say it's safe to agree to disagree
    -single parent homes at 70% for AAs will be tested under the republican regime, due to cuts.
    Only time will tell how significant.
     
    #328
  9. moneyfight Double Yellow Card

    moneyfight
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Without all the government jobs and affirmative action from the 24 straight years of Clinton, Bush & Obama it wouldn't be moving in the right direction. The house of cards will fall possibly in the next few decades.
     
    #329
  10. moneyfight Double Yellow Card

    moneyfight
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    How will education reform help mitigate society's issues?
     
    #330
  11. Hans Gercmiov Steel Belt

    Hans Gercmiov
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    30,081
    Likes Received:
    31,045
    Location:
    Texas
  12. moneyfight Double Yellow Card

    moneyfight
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    This looks like a normal western society...[​IMG]

     
    #332
  13. ManCityFC9 Orange Belt

    ManCityFC9
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2017
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    486
    Location:
    DC
    Put people in a position to earn money and be self sustaining by having skills relevant in today's society.

    -school the youth longer (combine an associates degree equivalent into the current high school curriculum, make this the new "HS diploma" minimum...I'd let my taxes go to that)
    -subsequently employ more (5m+ jobs available in the US)
     
    #333
  14. nhbbear Duty Belt

    nhbbear
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    11,584
    Likes Received:
    425
    Location:
    On the wall, pissing off the edge of the world
    First, this is ridiculous. I keep getting errors and losing my posts. This has been happening for months now on multiple devices!!

    Ok, where to start?

    First, I don't actually disagree with much of what the articles state. The children of incarcerated parents suffer and are at a great disadvantage when it comes to all areas of life, from school work and discipline, to financial issues, stability in the home, health and psychological problems and even the nutrition in these children is severely lacking.

    What I do disagree with, is the notion that these men are "unjustly" incarcerated. Look, I spend a lot of time reading triple i's, which are the complete criminal histories of a person. Very, very seldom do I encounter a triple I that is not multiple pages long. Many of these drug dealers have such extensive criminal records, that it makes me sick to my stomach that they keep getting out. What is more troubling, is that there are rarely any triple i's that do not have serious violent crimes as well. Most of the triple i's that I take the time to read are specifically out of town drug dealers. As a district commander, I am responsible for an area of the city with 15,000 people. It is also the area where the most violent crimes occur and drug dealing is rampant. Without fail, when I read a triple I of some shitbird from Cleveland or Chicago, there are dozens of trafficking of drug arrests, robberies, malicious woundings(shooting someone), attempted murder, and quite a few have previous murder convictions that are followed by multiple felony arrests for trafficking. How the fuck can you kill someone, get out and get arrested and convicted for more felonies, and still be free? My point is that many of these "unjustly" incarcerated gentlemen are not in prison for a damn joint, or even their first drug offense. They are often career criminals. That does not change the fact that they almost always have children that will suffer because these men are often in an out of prison. And the moms are no treat, either. They often have long rap sheets as well, but are rarely sentenced as long as the men, usually because the violent crimes are not in their past. Even if these men were not in prison, many of them would suck at fatherhood anyway. It's hard to raise a child. It's really hard it raise a child when you are out at the bar all night selling drugs. And considering many have children with multiple women, the children often have little contact when the fathers are not incarcerated.

    I also take exception to the portion of the article that says that whites have similar numbers when it comes to drug use. Drug use is different that drug dealing. And even if the numbers were the same for whites and blacks when it comes to drug dealing, the chances that a black male is going to be involved in dealing in a high crime and high violence area is much greater than a white male drug dealer. It's apples to oranges. By that, I am simply saying that there are too many factors to simply compare a sample white male and a smaller black male that are incarcerated for the same crime. Again, the criminal histories are going to play a big factor. Also, as a police officer and a district commander, I am going to allocate my officers and focus on the areas and people that are not only selling drugs, but the ones that are much more likely to be involved in a shooting or murder. In my 15 year career, I have only been involved in 1 case that I can recall, where the murderer(s) where white, and it was 13 years ago. I can't think of any shootings that involved white males, come to think of it. So where am I going to focus my efforts? What is the priority of the my police department when it comes to going after the drug dealers? It will be focused on the people with the guns. Plenty of white dealers get nailed as well, but they are selling much lower quantities and do not have the supply chains coming in from Cleveland and Chicago. They likely buy the shit they sell from the back guys from Cleveland.

    It is a shitty situation for the children and the community because these children will often grow up to be like dad and mom, deeply committed to a criminal lifestyle. We obviously need to figure out how to break the cycle. I know some will say to legalize drugs, but I don't see that ending shitty parenting, criminal lifestyles, irresponsible parents, no career goals for either parent, and there is no guarantee that these gentlemen would not pursue criminal pathways not related to drugs. In fact, I would say many of them would still be in and out of prison for other offenses. Ultimately, all of these articles are blaming everyone BUT the men and women that choose to be criminals to the detriment of their children. And since sterilization is not an option, we have to figure out some way to lure the kids away from the alluring criminal lifestyle.
     
    #334
  15. nhbbear Duty Belt

    nhbbear
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    11,584
    Likes Received:
    425
    Location:
    On the wall, pissing off the edge of the world

    I agree about blm.
    I disagree about legalizing drugs makes the problem go away. There will still be gangs, and with gangs comes the violence. They would still fight over turf and their stupid ass colors for no reason other than something to do and their stupid, misguided sense of pride in their gang. But the gangs would still be trying to corner the market on some criminal activity, be it prostitution, human trafficking, shoplifting rings, burglaries, robberies, extortion, and they would still be willing to kill others to protect the profits they get from those activities.

    I agree that without the black market on drugs, they would have a lot less money. The allure of the easy money criminal lifestyle loses some of its glamor, but there are still so many that would join and shoot others for no reason other than to gain status. And even if all drugs were legalized, I think they would still be importing and selling drugs to undercut the stores and dispensaries.
     
    #335
  16. RetiredSlave Brown Belt

    RetiredSlave
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2015
    Messages:
    2,820
    Likes Received:
    2,271
    Drug users are witches, burn them at the stake.
     
    #336
  17. moneyfight Double Yellow Card

    moneyfight
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    1,069
  18. dfoster Yellow Card

    dfoster
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,667
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    Yep, it's not what's legal and what's not. That's just a specificity of the legal environment. It's the culture of crime and lawlessness that's the real problem.
     
    #338
  19. moneyfight Double Yellow Card

    moneyfight
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Thanks for posting, how do you see things going forward? any solutions?
     
    #339
  20. VivaRevolution Red Belt

    VivaRevolution
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Messages:
    8,326
    Likes Received:
    4,510
    Sure, just as the mob moved to rackateering, illegal gambling, and other things post prohibition.

    However, I think the biggest difference is that without that profit motive, their won't be a line a mile long to replace the low level racketeering chief when arrested, who barely does better then the guy down the street with the good union job.
     
    #340

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"