If the U.S. Marine Corps is a separate service so should other subdivisions be

[MadSquabbles500]

The Marines obviously are supposed to be part of the navy but they have weirdly morphed into a separate service in the U.S.A. which duplicates elements of the Army and Air Force.

The U.S.M.C. has drifted so far from its original mission that the Navy now has made effectively a new marines group under its command, under the N.E.C.C. Navy Expeditionary Combat Command, to do the jobs the marines were supposed to do.

If the Marines are a separate service then the Naval Air Force, Army Fleet and U.S.A.F. Ground Forces should also be separate services.

What be this NECC?

Also from what I have read, this current incarnation of the US Marines started in 1933. That is when they decided to create the Fleet Marine Force. Basically another land army. Before then, regular Navy Sailors took part in amphibious assaults on foot. I made a thread about this

https://www.history.navy.mil/resear...abetically/s/sailors-as-infantry-us-navy.html

As recently as USA second invasion of Mexico while Europe was fighting WW1, US navy sailors took part in the second capture of the port City of Veracruz. They also had a large role on the ground during the Banana Wars.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

A fuckin' combat support role is considered one of the most dangerous jobs in the military forces. go figure.

That makes sense. You attack and take away your enemies ability to fight. So attack his supplies, his logistics. Its a tactic older than Sun Tzu.

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

Aside from Special Forces, Marines would be the first substantial force to enter and engage in most traditional war situations so I'd say its more dangerous to be a Marine infantry but if we are talking about holding and controlling a country (Afghanistan for example) then that's where the Army infantry comes in and that comes with a whole new set of dangers...

Seems like the Marines simply work as a second army, with their own air force. Is is necessary for the navy to have its own army? Is it necessary for the navy's army to have its own air force?

Afghanistan doesn't even have a coastline lol.

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

What be this NECC?

Also from what I have read, this current incarnation of the US Marines started in 1933. That is when they decided to create the Fleet Marine Force. Basically another land army. Before then, regular Navy Sailors took part in amphibious assaults on foot. I made a thread about this

https://www.history.navy.mil/resear...abetically/s/sailors-as-infantry-us-navy.html

As recently as USA second invasion of Mexico while Europe was fighting WW1, US navy sailors took part in the second capture of the port City of Veracruz. They also had a large role on the ground during the Banana Wars.

Yeah from the days of sail and sword until about WW1 there was a lot more overlap. Thanks for the info.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Yeah from the days of sail and sword until about WW1 there was a lot more overlap. Thanks for the info.

Most other countries that have a working Navy, dont have a huge Marine Corp like the USA. Their Marine Corp is almost like elite forces. So those countries' Navies probably still have more overlap.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

I also wondered, do Air Force Pilots have to learn how to land on carriers, just in case there is no land base nearby for them? The Navy, and Marine corp can land on both kinds of surfaces.

 

[sub_thug]

Seems like the Marines simply work as a second army, with their own air force. Is is necessary for the navy to have its own army? Is it necessary for the navy's army to have its own air force?

Afghanistan doesn't even have a coastline lol.

This is an oversimplification. Joint doctrine has Marines as part of Marine Expeditionary Forces and Marine Expeditionary Units. Marines go on Navy ships, float around, and have assets that are designed to act as a sort of global Quick Reaction Force in case of an immediate need. The Army has Quick Reaction Force capabilities, such as the 101st Air Assault and 82nd Airborne, and we have Special Operations Forces that are designed to be somewhere extremely quickly. As a service, we are more aligned with ramping up for 1-3 months, putting tanks onto rail cars and ships, and then traveling with all the big guns to whatever country we need to go. We are much slower than the Marines, but we have many more capabilities and the ability to logistically care for ourselves. Marines do a lot fewer things for shorter periods of time, but they can do them quickly.

 

[usmctanker242]

This is an oversimplification. Joint doctrine has Marines as part of Marine Expeditionary Forces and Marine Expeditionary Units. Marines go on Navy ships, float around, and have assets that are designed to act as a sort of global Quick Reaction Force in case of an immediate need. The Army has Quick Reaction Force capabilities, such as the 101st Air Assault and 82nd Airborne, and we have Special Operations Forces that are designed to be somewhere extremely quickly. As a service, we are more aligned with ramping up for 1-3 months, putting tanks onto rail cars and ships, and then traveling with all the big guns to whatever country we need to go. We are much slower than the Marines, but we have many more capabilities and the ability to logistically care for ourselves. Marines do a lot fewer things for shorter periods of time, but they can do them quickly.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Thinks of the Marines as the America's 9-1-1 force as we can usually be anywhere in the world in 48 hours. When the Army comes in they set up shop and have a massive footprint with serious supply lines and massive amount of personnel.

During OIF I we ran into quite a few Army logistics units and they looked at us (the Marines) kind of like the poor kids next door. They had fresh water, an abundance of MRE's, and it was a totally different animal. They were eager to give us a ton of shit because we had almost nothing... the Army and the Marines are very different services.

 

[Gregolian]

I think this hits the nail on the head. Thinks of the Marines as the America's 9-1-1 force as we can usually be anywhere in the world in 48 hours. When the Army comes in they set up shop and have a massive footprint with serious supply lines and massive amount of personnel.

During OIF I we ran into quite a few Army logistics units and they looked at us (the Marines) kind of like the poor kids next door. They had fresh water, an abundance of MRE's, and it was a totally different animal. They were eager to give us a ton of shit because we had almost nothing... the Army and the Marines are very different services.

"Why are we going to an Army PX?" -Wright
"Cause the Army gets whatever the hell they want. Marines, we're like America's pitbulls. They mis-treat us, don't feed us, and every once in awhile let us out to attack someone" -Person
"You want logistics, join the Army. Marines... we make do" -Colbert


I remember stories of friends of mine that were in the Marines being billet'd or stationed with 82nd or 101st guys in Afghanistan. Marines didn't have enough batteries for their NODs or Thermals... fucking 82nd and 101st guys basically gave ALL of theirs to the Marines because "we can get more in an hour just by saying we lost them"

 

[DoomPatrol]

This is an oversimplification. Joint doctrine has Marines as part of Marine Expeditionary Forces and Marine Expeditionary Units. Marines go on Navy ships, float around, and have assets that are designed to act as a sort of global Quick Reaction Force in case of an immediate need. The Army has Quick Reaction Force capabilities, such as the 101st Air Assault and 82nd Airborne, and we have Special Operations Forces that are designed to be somewhere extremely quickly. As a service, we are more aligned with ramping up for 1-3 months, putting tanks onto rail cars and ships, and then traveling with all the big guns to whatever country we need to go. We are much slower than the Marines, but we have many more capabilities and the ability to logistically care for ourselves. Marines do a lot fewer things for shorter periods of time, but they can do them quickly.

That's pretty fair. I've always considered the Marine Corps to be an elite assault force at the tip of the spear. We aren't big Army and we shouldn't try to be. That's where I think our future lays. Something needs to be taken, then send a MEU. Let them seize the territory then give it to the army to hold. Otherwise, why have a second "army"? I definitely think we've earned the right to stay though. We've fought for America since 1775. It's also why I think the physical standards need to go up drastically. Got to earn that check and find a niche. Lately it seems like we've been getting slower.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Thinks of the Marines as the America's 9-1-1 force as we can usually be anywhere in the world in 48 hours. When the Army comes in they set up shop and have a massive footprint with serious supply lines and massive amount of personnel.

During OIF I we ran into quite a few Army logistics units and they looked at us (the Marines) kind of like the poor kids next door. They had fresh water, an abundance of MRE's, and it was a totally different animal. They were eager to give us a ton of shit because we had almost nothing... the Army and the Marines are very different services.

It's fucking crazy how well equipped they are. I remember watching an Army MP give away a pair of Oakley's to an Iraqi Army Commander at a meeting. I looked at him sideways cause those things were like gold and he just laughed and brought me to his HMMWV and pulled out an entire box of them.

 

[Ice That Jaw]

The director of the navy is still the top leadership of the marines.

 

[Roaming East]

That's pretty fair. I've always considered the Marine Corps to be an elite assault force at the tip of the spear. We aren't big Army and we shouldn't try to be. That's where I think our future lays. Something needs to be taken, then send a MEU. Let them seize the territory then give it to the army to hold. Otherwise, why have a second "army"? I definitely think we've earned the right to stay though. We've fought for America since 1775. It's also why I think the physical standards need to go up drastically. Got to earn that check and find a niche. Lately it seems like we've been getting slower.




It's fucking crazy how well equipped they are. I remember watching an Army MP give away a pair of Oakley's to an Iraqi Army Commander at a meeting. I looked at him sideways cause those things were like gold and he just laughed and brought me to his HMMWV and pulled out an entire box of them.

whenever i hear that it reminds me of OIF I when the Air Force attached us to forward units. I went in country with a brand new FN made M4a1 (most army were still rocking M16a2's) ACOG, PVS14 still in the manufacturers plastic....man it was nice. saw some CCT's with that little NVG sight whose designation escapes me. For what its worth, i did have somebody steal my Wiley's....pretty sure it was a marine too.

 

[DoomPatrol]

whenever i hear that it reminds me of OIF I when the Air Force attached us to forward units. I went in country with a brand new FN made M4a1 (most army were still rocking M16a2's) ACOG, PVS14 still in the manufacturers plastic....man it was nice. saw some CCT's with that little NVG sight whose designation escapes me. For what its worth, i did have somebody steal my Wiley's....pretty sure it was a marine too.

Oh fuck yeah those Wiley's we got issued were horrible lol! Luckily we were allowed by command to purchase the Oakley's which was what I did. They actually saved my sight.

I had an AK-47 round hit right next to me once and it fragmented and sent little metal pieces into my face. Had those little pieces of metal stuck in the glasses right where my eyes would have been. I can't imagine how badly that would have fucked me up if I wasn't wearing eye pro. I still have those glasses to this day.

 

[Fluffernutter]

Don't worry, all are still parts of the MIC...equal parts.

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

That's pretty fair. I've always considered the Marine Corps to be an elite assault force at the tip of the spear. We aren't big Army and we shouldn't try to be. That's where I think our future lays. Something needs to be taken, then send a MEU. Let them seize the territory then give it to the army to hold. Otherwise, why have a second "army"? I definitely think we've earned the right to stay though. We've fought for America since 1775. It's also why I think the physical standards need to go up drastically. Got to earn that check and find a niche. Lately it seems like we've been getting slower.




It's fucking crazy how well equipped they are. I remember watching an Army MP give away a pair of Oakley's to an Iraqi Army Commander at a meeting. I looked at him sideways cause those things were like gold and he just laughed and brought me to his HMMWV and pulled out an entire box of them.

The Marines were disbanded 1783-1798. I suppose if the Marines have that niche and do it well why fix something if it's not broken. Really does seem like they are just doing Army work though, it's not like their job has anything to do with the Navy. I mean if you look at WW2 it was the Army that did all of the amphibious stuff in Europe and most of it in the Pacific. But yeah if it works I suppose probably just leave it be.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

well ya. They aren't 'soldiers of the sea' anymore, the Navy doesn't engage in large scale Naval warfare w/ ships.....

they still do their inherent job of Amphibious Assaults, we just haven't been fighting in aquatic based environments for awhile

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

Soldiers doing a light amphibious assault


Marines driving main battle tanks in the desert


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Lord Coke]

This documentary was my tank class. I am in it just a little.
If you go to 4926 that is me with the glasses in the center of the platoon marching

 

[Arkain2K]

Soldiers doing a light amphibious assault


Marines driving main battle tanks in the desert


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This reminds me of the time when Conan is bewildered that there are Navy personnel in the middle of the desert at Al Udeid:

 

[usmctanker242]

This documentary was my tank class. I am in it just a little.
If you go to 4926 that is me with the glasses in the center of the platoon marching

Wow, some familiar faces in that video. haha I graduated tank school in March '01 so I was a couple cycles ahead of you.