Great fight from Wilder and Fury. But if one guy goes unconscious the fight is over.

[Contra-dictator]

There is an element of referee discretion to it.

In this case if the ref would have waved it off I would not have had a problem with it and I think that the controversy would have been minimal.

However if that had happened we would have be robbed of an AMAZING moment and unbelievable display of heart and determination.

If anything I am a little annoyed that the argument over the scoring is overshadowing the incredible boxing match we saw. Both men showed heart, skill and tremendous class.

Yes, both were truly amazing and in their own GENUINELY UNIQUE way! The way Fury rose truly reminded me of the undertaker. As I've heard commentators say many times after the bout is waived off "they DON'T get up when they fall like that!!"

 

[DeJulez]

I understand the rules, but people aren't flocking towards boxing these days, at least in America.

They aren't flocking towards MMA either. No one is.

 

[koipin]

I'd be in a coma from the combo that put Fury down. Amazing recovery.

Your point is valid TS. A good example of this is Froch Groves II where groves was unconscious but then got up and pleaded to continue. He was fucked.

 

[ScarfaceJr]

what a dumb fucking thread.

if you're unconscious you're not getting up in 10 seconds.

 

[jabelar]

No, no, no......barring the difference in times on the clock I'm talking about the objective of the sport. If this were MMA or a street fight, he would have been followed to the ground, and in the second knockdown he was completely on his back with his eyes closed. This is not a good position to defend from at all.

I will say again, I have no issue with the ruling as I understand the sport. However, he was saved by rules of the sport. I think to make claims of being the baddest HW, which is a discussion piece right now you don't too much want to be the guy repeatedly getting up off your bum.

The "if this was MMA" or "if this was a street fight" doesn't work logically because if it was actually MMA and there was grappling and submissions allowed then Fury would have been using all those techniques against Wilder. And I'm pretty sure that in MMA Fury would be more even more dominant over Wilder. If Fury was using all his weight, reach, trickiness and guts to deliver takedowns, kicks, elbows, etc. -- think about it.

So you can't just pick the 10-count part and compare that with MMA, you have to take all of MMA to do the analysis. And since the timing, rules, ring, etc are all different it simply can't be compared.

In any case, boxing has had to deal with this "how do we tell if he's finished" question for a long time and the 10-count is a reasonable solution. It is enough time to weed out losses of balance and minor wobbles while not being enough time for a seriously KOed guy to recover. This works in boxing because the fight doesn't continue to the ground. You can't do this in MMA cause a KOed fighter might get greatly injured while getting further punishment on the ground. So MMA needs the ref to call it.

 

[tekkennlee]

Great fight
Amazing performance from both.

Draw could be an appropriate result.
Yes Fury outboxed him but not enough to put Wilder away or ever seriously hurt him. So whatever Wilders technical flaws, their not so bad that a real boxers boxer like Fury can expose them enough to put him away.
And Wilder almost had Fury finished twice.

In fact you could argue he DID KO and finish Fury, and ref shouldve called it then

So a technical point.
Should a fight be over when one fighter is out?

Yes he beat the count but if you go unconscious (i.e, you are knocked out ) technically the fight is over at that moment by KO, and the count is off.
Count should be if you are still conscious at least partially.

Glad the ref allowed it to go on so Fury got up and a great story but..
Technically you could say fight was over then, no matter how quick he recovered lights out = over

Props to both guys tho

People still talk trash about Wilder being this terrible boxer ,but he isn't, even i said this, because Fury does this to everyone even the great Klitchko and Wilder was able to do to Fury what even Klutchko couldn't do ,catch him and drop him twice and had him dead to rights out cold, so Wilder isn't as terrible at actually boxing then we all thought and he's got drive heart and guts, I think a little more training and timing issues that can be corrected, he stops Fury early and could actually outbox him parts of their fight.

So let's not fool ourselves anymore, Wilder is actually a good champion and could get better and with that crazy punching power stop Fury earlier next time, but can he actualy outbox and outthink the best boxers out there no, but he can knock anybody in the history of boxing out cold.

 

[jeff7b9]

Biggest draw in boxing? Floyd Mayweather Jr

KO (Conor 2017)
UD
UD
UD
MD
MD
UD
UD
KO (Ortiz 2011)

* the Ortiz KO was a cheapshot. Let's not overestimate Floyd's power here. He hasn't knocked out an actual pro boxer who was aware they were fighting in a long long fucking time.
(Hatton?)

 

[BoxingMMA]

In boxing there's a 10 count, he beat the count, so it's good.

In MMA you are at the mercy of a ref, in other words, in MMA rules Deontay could very well have lost to Ortiz when he was knocked out on his feet. Many a MMA ref would have stepped in to save him from more punishment.

So either way you have your quirks

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

I may be done with boxing for awhile.

If this were MMA or a street fight, and you go on your back that way you'd be out of there.

10 counts, and point systems understood, but in the spirit of actual fighting it would have more than likely been over.

Fury is my guy, and I have no biases against him. I also am a fan of Wilder.

As far as the sport goes, what I'm saying is left field, but let's be real....if a guy knocks you down twice how can you walk away feeling like you won?

Yes, I understand the rule, and I understand the essence of what the sport is but how can you feel like you're the baddest HW on the planet when a ref and a pause in action saved you?

Respect to both fighters, I still am a fan of Fury and Wilder at the end of the day.

its just the way it is.
what about fights where one guy knocks the other down, then viceversa, except actually unconcious for a ten count? did the first guy still win, even though he was unconcious?

Also - Fury wasnt slightly hurt the first knockdown. more off-balance.

I wouldnt even disagree with you if you were pushing for a strikin sport where as soon as you lose your feet the fight is over. its not a bad idea. but the rules are how they are.

 

[Culombo]

True, but if you look at the two piece he gave Tyson, that was clear domination. The only thing that saved him was the pause. He was on his back, completely sprawled. I can understand taking a knee but damn. lol

I would also argue that he may have been unconscious upon impact, and either him hitting the canvas or the ref's count woke him back up. His eyes were closed. However, I am not a physician, so I can't make that call.

If you look at it from a medical standpoint, he arguably was not in good shape, and he could have been legitimately knocked out.

That is the point of this thread.

none of this happened .. you sound like you just wanted wilder to win regardless of what fury did .. if he was knocked out, he wouldn't have been able to get up right away and fight back and stay on his feet without getting knocked down again by wilder .. wilder would have killed him if he truly had been knocked silly because he would've been out on his feet

knockdowns happen .. it doesn't give you a fight .. fury won most rounds .. it was his fight .. 'pro boxing' is a joke

 

[goronsaki]

Yeah that should have been a KO

 

[RyanPatrick]

He got up within 10 seconds. I find it interesting that many other fighters though fury won. . Lewis, Mayweather, GGG

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

The "if this was MMA" or "if this was a street fight" doesn't work logically because if it was actually MMA and there was grappling and submissions allowed then Fury would have been using all those techniques against Wilder. And I'm pretty sure that in MMA Fury would be more even more dominant over Wilder. If Fury was using all his weight, reach, trickiness and guts to deliver takedowns, kicks, elbows, etc. -- think about it.

So you can't just pick the 10-count part and compare that with MMA, you have to take all of MMA to do the analysis. And since the timing, rules, ring, etc are all different it simply can't be compared.

In any case, boxing has had to deal with this "how do we tell if he's finished" question for a long time and the 10-count is a reasonable solution. It is enough time to weed out losses of balance and minor wobbles while not being enough time for a seriously KOed guy to recover. This works in boxing because the fight doesn't continue to the ground. You can't do this in MMA cause a KOed fighter might get greatly injured while getting further punishment on the ground. So MMA needs the ref to call it.

Did you think the count was slow for the second knockdown?

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

its just the way it is.
what about fights where one guy knocks the other down, then viceversa, except actually unconcious for a ten count? did the first guy still win, even though he was unconcious?

Also - Fury wasnt slightly hurt the first knockdown. more off-balance.

I wouldnt even disagree with you if you were pushing for a strikin sport where as soon as you lose your feet the fight is over. its not a bad idea. but the rules are how they are.

I was actually thinking how they do the Ippon in Judo. If you fall completely on your back, both shoulders, fight is over. Is what it is. Rematch should be good.

 

[DeJulez]

* the Ortiz KO was a cheapshot. Let's not overestimate Floyd's power here. He hasn't knocked out an actual pro boxer who was aware they were fighting in a long long fucking time.
(Hatton?)

Protect yourself at all times.
Lets not forget what led up to the punch. A headbutt by Ortiz

 

[The Witcher]

what a dumb fucking thread.

if you're unconscious you're not getting up in 10 seconds.

Wrong, you can definitely go out for a few seconds. How you came to that conclusion i will never know.

 

[opie]

I think we should condemn the ref for the amount of time it took him to resume the contest though.

What was he doing?

that is a knockout

 

[jeff7b9]

Protect yourself at all times.
Lets not forget what led up to the punch. A headbutt by Ortiz

Them's the rules. No arguments there.

And I'm not sure what is the appropriate amount of hugs and glove touches following an obviously intentional headbutt, but Ortiz exceeded it and his dumb ass should have kept his gloves up....

But it was still a cheap shot.

 

[jeff7b9]

Did you think the count was slow for the second knockdown?

It definitely wasn't. I've watched video on it. He was on his feet in less than 10 seconds. (It was about nine but absolutely < 10)

If I recall the clock he hit the matt at 2:21 (so even at a one second exact count, 2:20 would be "one") and by 2:11 he is in his feet with his gloves in front of him.

There was a video of it on YouTube courtesy of Zombie Prophet.

 

[B0mbSquad]

I'm glad the ref gave the count, but there's a world where we waves that one off. Fury fell to the ground limp with his eyes rolled back.