Great fight from Wilder and Fury. But if one guy goes unconscious the fight is over.

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Because boxing is the sport of punching and not getting hit and that's it. It isn't fighting. That being said because it's so focused on one particular area there is an art and depth to it that there isn't in other multifaceted fighting sports.

Mma hasn't been around the entire time like boxing has and until recently boxers in the HW division were considered the baddest men in the planet..

Fury has always fought the way he has and always under a confirmed set of rules that everyone has to abide by and that includes out pointing punchers. He is literally trying to use the rule set he has. I wouldn't be saddened by this. MMA and boxing are completely separate.

I understand the rules, but people aren't flocking towards boxing these days, at least in America.

If they changed the rules to allow more points perhaps awarded to the knockdown, maybe we will see more exciting fights that will garner a wider fan base.

There are fighters who rely on point scoring to win fights, and then become braggarts. One of them criticized the decision last night ---- Mayweather.

This culture has turned people off from the sport. You can rack up points for days, but if you're the one getting up off your back then really how effective are you?

 

[Double Dragon]

And the ref in this fight was great. Props to the ref. Many other refs wouldve called it off like you'd wanted. Instead he saved a righteous undertaker moment. Tyson has the best recovery and his body has an ability to switch the lights off and reload in an instant. I have never seen anything like it.

For a human being that is a phenomenal survival quality.

I think we should condemn the ref for the amount of time it took him to resume the contest though.

What was he doing?

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

"unconscious" then outboxing Wilder again 30 seconds later lol.

 

[Badr Hari]

If this were MMA or a street fight, and you go on your back that way you'd be out of there.

If this was MMA there would have been no 1 minute brake after the first round and the fight would have not gone to minute 27 when Wilder for the first time dropped Fury because MMA fights are 15 or 25 minutes. Fury dominated completely the first 25 minutes so by your logic he would have won the MMA fight.

Spoiler

Wilder's takedown defense sucks. Remember hurt Bermane Stiverne double legged him easily in the first round

 

[THEfightsAREfixed]

If this was MMA there would have been no 1 minute brake after the first round and the fight would have not gone to minute 27 when Wilder for the first time dropped Fury because MMA fights are 15 or 25 minutes. Fury dominated completely the first 25 minutes so by your logic he would have won the MMA fight.

Spoiler

Wilder's takedown defense sucks. Remember hurt Bermane Stiverne double legged him easily in the first round

but but, if

it's fucking boxing and it was an amazing fight because the ref let them fight, is it completely insane to have a guy get his brain turned off and then get back up and keep fighting like that? yes of course but that's why it's a spectacle and Fury and all boxers know what the cost to their bodies and minds are when they enter the ring its a very high stakes game

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

If this was MMA there would have been no 1 minute brake after the first round and the fight would have not gone to minute 27 when Wilder for the first time dropped Fury because MMA fights are 15 or 25 minutes. Fury dominated completely the first 25 minutes so by your logic he would have won the MMA fight.

Spoiler

Wilder's takedown defense sucks. Remember hurt Bermane Stiverne double legged him easily in the first round

No, no, no......barring the difference in times on the clock I'm talking about the objective of the sport. If this were MMA or a street fight, he would have been followed to the ground, and in the second knockdown he was completely on his back with his eyes closed. This is not a good position to defend from at all.

I will say again, I have no issue with the ruling as I understand the sport. However, he was saved by rules of the sport. I think to make claims of being the baddest HW, which is a discussion piece right now you don't too much want to be the guy repeatedly getting up off your bum.

 

[Philtard]

I understand the rules, but people aren't flocking towards boxing these days, at least in America.

If they changed the rules to allow more points perhaps awarded to the knockdown, maybe we will see more exciting fights that will garner a wider fan base.

There are fighters who rely on point scoring to win fights, and then become braggarts. One of them criticized the decision last night ---- Mayweather.

This culture has turned people off from the sport. You can rack up points for days, but if you're the one getting up off your back then really how effective are you?

Depends on what you think is effective. The rules have always been there. You can talk about the knock downs but what good is a knock down in boxing if you can't knock them out? Whilst deomtay has crazy power he didn't knock Tyson out and he most definitely wasn't out of the fight. You could also look at deontays face and then Tysons and see who looks worse for wear. But then again that's not part of the scoring criteria eitger.

Don't get the ethos of boxing and the ethos of mma confused.

 

[CUAPO]

Are you who keep repeating real fight, real fight Conor fans? Some people souds like Conor, It wasn't MMA it wasn't street fight it was boxing. But listen Fury could have also been choked or submitted in a real fight just saying.

 

[Medical Marijuana Man]

Ask Floyd and Lennox who won both very vocal about the robbery. Its absolutely disgusting Fury was robbed of the greatest comeback in the history of sports.

 

[GoldenAzazel]

I understand the rules, but people aren't flocking towards boxing these days, at least in America.

If they changed the rules to allow more points perhaps awarded to the knockdown, maybe we will see more exciting fights that will garner a wider fan base.

There are fighters who rely on point scoring to win fights, and then become braggarts. One of them criticized the decision last night ---- Mayweather.

This culture has turned people off from the sport. You can rack up points for days, but if you're the one getting up off your back then really how effective are you?

This is such a moot point though. If the rules were different obviously the game plans, the training for the fight, and the way fighters deal with getting knocked down/hurt would be completely different. You can't just say Fury doesn't deserve to be called the baddest man on the planet because he doesn't meet an arbitrary criteria that he didn't even know existed.

 

[D Train]

but but, if

it's fucking boxing and it was an amazing fight because the ref let them fight, is it completely insane to have a guy get his brain turned off and then get back up and keep fighting like that? yes of course but that's why it's a spectacle and Fury and all boxers know what the cost to their bodies and minds are when they enter the ring its a very high stakes game

You might say it’s high level problem solving with dire physical consequences.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Depends on what you think is effective. The rules have always been there. You can talk about the knock downs but what good is a knock down in boxing if you can't knock them out? Whilst deomtay has crazy power he didn't knock Tyson out and he most definitely wasn't out of the fight. You could also look at deontays face and then Tysons and see who looks worse for wear. But then again that's not part of the scoring criteria eitger.

Don't get the ethos of boxing and the ethos of mma confused.

Then you have to determine if Fury was knocked out or not.

"After a brain injury, the heart must supply sufficient blood flow for the brain to repair itself. If the demand outweighs the supply the brain then shuts down and leads to an eventual loss of consciousness," says Anthony Alessi, M.D., a neurologist and ringside physician for the Connecticut State Boxing Commission. "That's when I know to end the match, because if we keep going the fighter is going to die."

Surprisingly, the boxer's feet are often the first clear signal that he is on the verge of being knocked out. When the neural networks that emanate from the cerebellum (the part of the brain responsible for coordinating motor activity) are disrupted by a concussion, a fighter loses his ability to coordinate foot movements.
(https://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a6372/boxing-knockout-sports-science/)

His feet failed him, and his eyes were closed as he was on his back. Now was he at any point unconscious? We don't know. I would be interested in hearing a physician's take on it, if it is out there.

In any case, effectiveness is what gets you to the primary objective of boxing which is the knockout. Point scoring is a means to win, but it is not the first goal. Wilder was closer to that goal than Fury. I'm not upset about a draw, but all of this talks of "lineal champs" and what have you, you shouldn't be the one having to get back up.

That is why I said I'm done with boxing for awhile.

 

[wilKO]

If you do all of that, and the other guy knocks you down twice then his punches he did land were clearly more effective.

You beat him at point scoring. He got closer to the primary objective than you did, which is the knockout.

Sometimes knockdowns aren't as damaging as rocking someone on the feet. Sometimes knockdowns are people being off balance. So Kevin Lee vs Barboza wasn't as close to being finished as Chuck vs Wanderlei?

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

This is such a moot point though. If the rules were different obviously the game plans, the training for the fight, and the way fighters deal with getting knocked down/hurt would be completely different. You can't just say Fury doesn't deserve to be called the baddest man on the planet because he doesn't meet an arbitrary criteria that he didn't even know existed.

Baddest man doesn't need saving. He would have won by points which I think is hurting the sport. I think knockdowns in boxing should score higher than a typical 10-8. I would rule it under effective aggression.

 

[Philtard]

Then you have to determine if Fury was knocked out or not.

"After a brain injury, the heart must supply sufficient blood flow for the brain to repair itself. If the demand outweighs the supply the brain then shuts down and leads to an eventual loss of consciousness," says Anthony Alessi, M.D., a neurologist and ringside physician for the Connecticut State Boxing Commission. "That's when I know to end the match, because if we keep going the fighter is going to die."

Surprisingly, the boxer's feet are often the first clear signal that he is on the verge of being knocked out. When the neural networks that emanate from the cerebellum (the part of the brain responsible for coordinating motor activity) are disrupted by a concussion, a fighter loses his ability to coordinate foot movements.
(https://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a6372/boxing-knockout-sports-science/)

His feet failed him, and his eyes were closed as he was on his back. Now was he at any point unconscious? We don't know. I would be interested in hearing a physician's take on it, if it is out there.

In any case, effectiveness is what gets you to the primary objective of boxing which is the knockout. Point scoring is a means to win, but it is not the first goal. Wilder was closer to that goal than Fury. I'm not upset about a draw, but all of this talks of "lineal champs" and what have you, you shouldn't be the one having to get back up.

That is why I said I'm done with boxing for awhile.

I'm not going to say that everyone has the recovery like fury. But the way his body works when it comes to his body taking punches I think his body has it totally down. And that in some part you are driven by an emotional narrative which I can accept but in lart I think it's down to deontays reputation as a massive concussive puncher

Fury takes shots like that well. His body switches off and reboots immediately. I didn't see any loss of equilibrium in fact i saw fury coming back strong and winning the remainder of the round.

I'm not trying to be a dick but in part I think it's a little bit of an underwhelming result for wilder that has done it.

 

[Badr Hari]

No, no, no......barring the difference in times on the clock I'm talking about the objective of the sport. If this were MMA or a street fight, he would have been followed to the ground, and in the second knockdown he was completely on his back with his eyes closed. This is not a good position to defend from at all.

I will say again, I have no issue with the ruling as I understand the sport. However, he was saved by rules of the sport. I think to make claims of being the baddest HW, which is a discussion piece right now you don't too much want to be the guy repeatedly getting up off your bum.

If you think boxing rules should change to a 10-7 round for a knockdown you might have a solid point and we can discuss. Even if you think the draw or a Wilder points win are okay I wouldn't disagree. But to say Fury lost because after getting dropped in the final round of a BOXING MATCH Wilder could have ground and pounded him out it doesn't make sense. There's no difference in boxing between a random lighter knockdown and a spectacular heavy knockdown. Under different rules both Fury and Wilder would come with a different gameplan as well. We can only discuss this fight based on the already established judging criteria. If you want new rules than that's legitimate but it has nothing to do with this fight, it's another topic about the regulation of the sport.

 

[GoldenAzazel]

Baddest man doesn't need saving. He would have won by points which I think is hurting the sport. I think knockdowns in boxing should score higher than a typical 10-8. I would rule it under effective aggression.

You're missing the point. If the rules were different Fury would have had a different game plan and fought differently. This is a very a shallow way to discredit Fury.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Sometimes knockdowns aren't as damaging as rocking someone on the feet. Sometimes knockdowns are people being off balance. So Kevin Lee vs Barboza wasn't as close to being finished as Chuck vs Wanderlei?

True, but if you look at the two piece he gave Tyson, that was clear domination. The only thing that saved him was the pause. He was on his back, completely sprawled. I can understand taking a knee but damn. lol

I would also argue that he may have been unconscious upon impact, and either him hitting the canvas or the ref's count woke him back up. His eyes were closed. However, I am not a physician, so I can't make that call.

If you look at it from a medical standpoint, he arguably was not in good shape, and he could have been legitimately knocked out.

That is the point of this thread.

 

[Badr Hari]

Baddest man doesn't need saving

Nobody called Fury the baddest man. That title probably belongs to Cormier at this point. But I don't even know what are we talking about here. Last night it was a boxing match. It was about who is the superior martial artist in one particular art, not who is the superior 'fighter'.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

I'm not going to say that everyone has the recovery like fury. But the way his body works when it comes to his body taking punches I think his body has it totally down. And that in some part you are driven by an emotional narrative which I can accept but in lart I think it's down to deontays reputation as a massive concussive puncher

Fury takes shots like that well. His body switches off and reboots immediately. I didn't see any loss of equilibrium in fact i saw fury coming back strong and winning the remainder of the round.

I'm not trying to be a dick but in part I think it's a little bit of an underwhelming result for wilder that has done it.

It's not an emotional narrative, I don't care who wins. I like both fighters.

I just know that the rules of the sport saved Fury. Which is fine. That is why I am done with boxing for a while.