PBP GLORY 79: Collision 3, Sat. Oct. 23, 11:00 AM EST/8:00 AM PT PBP Discussion Thread

[Robbocop]

I feel like Japan has surpassed them. Rico is the only Dutch champion left.

Japan has not to my knowledge ever had a heavyweight kickboxing world champ. The history of the Heavyweight Kickboxing champion has throughout it been heavily dominated by the Dutch. For example, Semmy Shilt, Ernesto Hoost, Peter Aerts, Rico Verhoeven, perhaps the 4 guys who could lay claim to greatest heavyweight kickboxer of all time of all time, are all Dutch. Countless of the current top heavyweight fighters train in the Netherlands, Jamal Ben Saddik included. I do not follow the light weight kick boxing scene at all but I do tend to notice that there are many Japanese fighters in those divisions. The thing is, you would be very hard pressed to find any number of Dutch guys who weigh 60kg for example, given the average height is around 6 foot, letalone 50kg or however light the divisons go. It kind of makes sense there are more Japanese fighters in those very light weight divisions because they are a naturally smaller sized human, especially as compared to the Dutch. The same is true in MMA, where in the UFC for example, there have been relatively few Japanese light heavyweight fighters, and virtually no Japanese heavyweight fighters. Even in the Pride days it was the same, the rare Japanese heavyweight was something of an oddity, for example Fujita, or Takayama.

 

[Yodsanan]

the Dutch are the best in the world in kickboxing.

Second best. It's Japan nowadays. Not particularly close either.

 

[Blazeblack]

Second best. It's Japan nowadays. Not particularly close either.

At this point it’s a competition with Thailand for second place.

 

[Kanka]

Maybe now that Doumbe and Pereira have left Kickboxing the Dutch can have more than one champion.

 

[Aarkan]

Heavyweights will always be Dutch/Europeans

K-1 Japan is basically featherweight and below, While Glory is Welterweight and Higher

 

[Nova44]

Maybe now that Doumbe and Pereira have left Kickboxing the Dutch can have more than one champion.

Well they'd have to get through a Russian at LHW, someone from Suriname at MW, and either a Russian or Moroccan at WW... good luck. Dutch kickboxing really has fallen way behind, it's sad really.

 

[wtu85]

Guys let`s highlight strait away that by "dutch kickboxing" we mean Dutch nationals who practice kickboxing. The Dutch style of kickboxing is very well alive and constantly evolving. As for the Dutch, I agree. It seems that fewer and fewer Dutch nationals are wanting to evolve in kickboxing at professional level. I see more and more that people from Morocco and Eastern Europe are getting better and better. This is true also for the fans, the people who show up at Glory events.

I don`t know the reason. Maybe it has to do with the earning in kickboxing nowdays. Maybe for a Dutch its just not worth it as he can do something less risky for more money. For people of immigrant background it still may be an attractive way of earning. Also, I have read that kickboxing is/was connected with the mob in the Netherlands and generally Dutch people are not really that attracted to this sport.... it has a bad reputation. Think of Jan Plas... A great coach and master, maybe a revolutionary one in Europe but connected to the mob.

 

[Aarkan]

I saw one interview of aerts with bojnaski, saying that the government was making laws against the pratice of those 16 and younger in kickboxing, and that was cutting the potential of some of the future prospects
I dont know the specifics, but i m guessing its adding to the problem

 

[Kanka]

I see more and more that people from Morocco and Eastern Europe are getting better and better.

Many Moroccan-dutch fighters have typical dutch style with a tight guard, low kicks and combinations. It seems to fail when tested against top-caliber fighters who have a more dynamic and calculated style.

 

[Tayski]

Dutch kickboxing really has fallen way behind, it's sad really.

Don't forget that a lot of the fighters fighting under Moroccan, Surinamese, Turkish etc flags are often from The Netherlands and trained in the Dutch style of Kickboxing.

 

[Nova44]

Don't forget that a lot of the fighters fighting under Moroccan, Surinamese, Turkish etc flags are often from The Netherlands and trained in the Dutch style of Kickboxing.

True but there used to by so many guys born and bread in The Netherlands, and now their greatest hope is Hamicha who is half Moroccan... Wisse was born in Suriname so even though it's the same style they still don't have anyone of their own at the top. On that note, is there anyone even on the way up in The Netherlands? They must have some prospects right?

 

[Snubnoze707]

In regards to style "Dutch Kickboxing" is really just an offshoot of Japanese Kickboxing. They aren't that different.

 

[Nova44]

In regards to style "Dutch Kickboxing" is really just an offshoot of Japanese Kickboxing. They aren't that different.

I worded it poorly in retrospect. I didn't mean "Dutch Kickboxing has fallen behind" as in the Dutch style, i actually meant "The Dutch Kickboxing scene isn't what is once was"

I should have just said that.

 

[Snubnoze707]

I worded it poorly in retrospect. I didn't mean "Dutch Kickboxing has fallen behind" as in the Dutch style, i actually meant "The Dutch Kickboxing scene isn't what is once was"

I should have just said that.

I wasn't really directing that at you but just in general. I think people downplay how similar Dutch and Japanese Kickboxing is. Dutch just got stuck with this generic peek-a-boo guard, combo spam and low kick stereotype, but really their has been various styles within the Dutch framework from the start, just like not all Japanese Kickboxers fight exactly the same. It's all basically a mash-up of Karate, Muay Thai, and Boxing.

 

[Tayski]

True but there used to by so many guys born and bread in The Netherlands, and now their greatest hope is Hamicha who is half Moroccan... Wisse was born in Suriname so even though it's the same style they still don't have anyone of their own at the top. On that note, is there anyone even on the way up in The Netherlands? They must have some prospects right?

Don't have anyone of their own at the top? Did you forget about Rico?

Also Tyjani Beztati is the LW champ. Don't let the Moroccan flag foul you he's born and raised in The Netherlands and lived there all his life.

Wisse also trains in The Netherlands (granted not born there), and a lot of the top guys in that division are from The Netherlands; Ertuğrul Bayrak born and raised in the Netherlands, Yousri Belgaroui same thing.

There's also plenty of up and coming talent from the Netherlands as well as top fighters in Glory but it seems that what you're asking for is non immigrant descent guys, only white Dutch guys.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Seems like damn near every fighter has either Big Mike or Nick Hemmers in their corner. I'd say the Dutch legacy is doing just fine.

 

[Kanka]

Don't have anyone of their own at the top? Did you forget about Rico?

Also Tyjani Beztati is the LW champ. Don't let the Moroccan flag foul you he's born and raised in The Netherlands and lived there all his life.

Wisse also trains in The Netherlands (granted not born there), and a lot of the top guys in that division are from The Netherlands; Ertuğrul Bayrak born and raised in the Netherlands, Yousri Belgaroui same thing.

There's also plenty of up and coming talent from the Netherlands as well as top fighters in Glory but it seems that what you're asking for is non immigrant descent guys, only white Dutch guys.

No the point is these fighters are good but not really top contenders. Can't put them in the same league as Pereira, Doumbe, Sittichai, Marat, Petrosyan, etc. I would say the exceptions are Ersel and Pikeur.

 

[Monte Moku]

No the point is these fighters are good but not really top contenders. Can't put them in the same league as Pereira, Doumbe, Sittichai, Marat, Petrosyan, etc. I would say the exceptions are Ersel and Pikeur.

Doesn't Marat train under Nick Hemmers?

 

[Nova44]

Don't have anyone of their own at the top? Did you forget about Rico?

Also Tyjani Beztati is the LW champ. Don't let the Moroccan flag foul you he's born and raised in The Netherlands and lived there all his life.

Wisse also trains in The Netherlands (granted not born there), and a lot of the top guys in that division are from The Netherlands; Ertuğrul Bayrak born and raised in the Netherlands, Yousri Belgaroui same thing.

There's also plenty of up and coming talent from the Netherlands as well as top fighters in Glory but it seems that what you're asking for is non immigrant descent guys, only white Dutch guys.

I meant apart from Rico of course. Let's not pretend Beztati is only "top" because the division left for greener pastures and he's king of the leftovers, might as well be the regional circuit with the guys left in that division. Also, yeah (not pulling the race card or anything) but i just wondered about Dutch through-and-through guys, though that's unfair really. It just seems like nobody like the Dutch guys of the past is even on the horizon, though maybe i'm just not in the know enough.

 

[Nova44]

No the point is these fighters are good but not really top contenders. Can't put them in the same league as Pereira, Doumbe, Sittichai, Marat, Petrosyan, etc. I would say the exceptions are Ersel and Pikeur.

Where the hell is Pikeur anyway? I feel like i should know but my mind is blank.