Evolution will no longer be taught in Turkish schools

I'm not knowledgeable enough to tell him the answer.

Then why are you posting about evolution in this thread?

If you don't understand taxonomy or how we actually classify life, how can you disagree with the scientific consensus?
 
Then why are you posting about evolution in this thread?

If you don't understand taxonomy or how we actually classify life, how can you disagree with the scientific consensus?

I kind of feel a Ken Ham response coming. "There is this book..."
 
13-031PersianInnerFish.jpg


Even Iran teaches evolution.
Turkey going that Saudi rout.
I find attitudes toward mainstream science to be a good gauge of how seriously to take a country.

Unfortunately it leaves me gaping open mouthed at my own nation sometimes
 
Then why are you posting about evolution in this thread?

If you don't understand taxonomy or how we actually classify life, how can you disagree with the scientific consensus?
Because I don't believe in the theory of macro evolution.
 
Erdogan gradually pushing the Islamist agenda.

Re. Evolution:
Islamists and the Christian right are on the same page.

-----

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ools-to-stop-teaching-evolution-official-says

"Turkish schools to stop teaching evolution, official says"

"Board of education chairman says subject is debatable, controversial and too complicated for students"

Re. "too complicated for students"
Well that is subjective. Some Mathematics and Physics can also seem "too complicated" . The truth is that those making this "too complicated" claim are ideologically opposed to teaching the theory of evolution, so they concoct excuses.

Obviously, this is stupid because evolution is real. But, I love how the American left has such a high tolerance when Muslim communities do or promote "conservative" beliefs while the American left becomes enraged when American Christians do or promote "conservative" beliefs. There is a major double standard there.
 
At least I'm doing it for the entertainment factor. It doesn't matter that you can't change the mind of a religious nut since they have less and less influence on our western world as we've put them on leashes. They realize deep down that the world that the secular people built is much better than what was back when religion had actual rule.
I am not so sure about less and less influence. just from my personal experience, there a huge resurgence of religion in Russia and Ukraine. then we have Muslim going back to way of life more influenced by religion. I have a feeling that it is happening all over the world.
I blame Idiocracy effect on this. the stupid outbreed the smart. average intelligence drops and less intelligent people are more prone to be fooled by religion.
 
I am not so sure about less and less influence. just from my personal experience, there a huge resurgence of religion in Russia and Ukraine. then we have Muslim going back to way of life more influenced by religion. I have a feeling that it is happening all over the world.
I blame Idiocracy effect on this. the stupid outbreed the smart. average intelligence drops and less intelligent people are more prone to be fooled by religion.

I was referring to the western world in my post. Globally it's a bit different as it's generally the rich places with good education that tend to shed religion most. Religion runs rampant in many places, not least the Middle-East.
 
One of my fellow math teachers doesn't believe in evolution. Thing is, she also made certain not to prevent her own children from learning it. That's because she wanted them to be successful and realized that with that goal in mind it would be ridiculous to hamstring them intellectually.
 
Half of Britain and more in the US don't believe in evolution and are scientific powerhouses. You don't need to know evolution for 99.9999999% of science. It is natural history. Not really relevant to producing great scientists and engineers.
 
Show me all the evidence built up for purple sea monkeys and see if that matches all the evidence for evolution and you might have a point. But since you can't you just showed how out of your league you are here because that was really, really unintelligent. And no, I've stated that evolution is by far (understatement) the most well founded explanation for how life came to be, and what I said to you now isn't an argument for evolution but merely a deconstruction of the argument you made. You definitely need to learn to separate such fundamental things if you're to be discussing anything.

So you think (macro) evolution is the most well founded(whatever that means) explanation for how life began? Well...thats like your opinion man. And given that you can't demonstrate, observe, repeat, or predict (macro) evolution it can never be anything other than an opinion. An opinion most human beings do not share.

The evidence you tout is nothing more than circumstantial evidence that one has to draw a conclusion about. One has to use their personal judgement and bias to reach their conclusion. And guess what? Different people look at the evidence and draw different conclusions.

For example, you'll look at a piece of jawbone and draw in a whole ape like man around it and call it proof of something. I've said it before and I'll say it again...that's not science, thats arts and crafts.

So again, how can you say that something that has plenty of evidence supporting it definitely can't happen if you at the same time don't know what options are available?

Again, I agree with you. I can't completely rule out (macro) evolution just like I can't completely rule out purple sea monkeys. I have however...seen no convincing evidence for either.

Evolution makes perfect sense theoretically,

There is nothing sensible about random mutations forming all the life around us. Once again that is just your opinion and one most human beings do not share.

at least to anyone with decent education and that's not an unintelligent supporter of blind belief that will have a clear agenda since his fairy tale is being threatened by observation and evidence. There's plenty of scientists that challenge the theory in the name of science (and we've had plenty of changes to it) but they of course don't come off as dumb as your simple refutes.

You feel better now?

What doesn't make sense is that you're asking for direct proof for things that's happened over millions of years. Of course that's not going to be available.

I only asked for proof to illustrate the fact that you can't provide any. I'm sorry man but until you can demonstrate, observe, repeat, or predict (macro) evolution then all you got is a personal opinion. You don't have proof. All you have is a theory based on flimsy evidence and flawed logic. Well, in my humble opinion of course.

There's plenty of evidence around though and all findings support the theory. You just disagree because you're a blind supporter of a fairy tale that definitely doesn't align with the findings that have been made, plus that you've proven to be so uneducated that you didn't even know what a theory is. If you fail at comprehension of such fundamental things you're of course not going to understand much about the talk around the theory of evolution.

There's a reason you don't have proper phylogeny charts of "kinds", because it will make it all that much clearer that it doesn't even come close to adding up.

Look at how much of your post is dedicated to pure insult. This is what happens when you challenge an evolutionists faith. They react the same way a muslim does when someone draws muhammad.
 
So you think (macro) evolution is the most well founded(whatever that means) explanation for how life began? Well...thats like your opinion man. And given that you can't demonstrate, observe, repeat, or predict (macro) evolution it can never be anything other than an opinion. An opinion most human beings do not share.

The evidence you tout is nothing more than circumstantial evidence that one has to draw a conclusion about. One has to use their personal judgement and bias to reach their conclusion. And guess what? Different people look at the evidence and draw different conclusions.

For example, you'll look at a piece of jawbone and draw in a whole ape like man around it and call it proof of something. I've said it before and I'll say it again...that's not science, thats arts and crafts.

It's an opinion (well, it's not only an opinion) that the vast majority of humans that have access to proper education and that can realistically contribute anything to scientific progress share. It's not very popular among Islamic terrorists, extremely poor people or general religious nuts though, which is rather to it's credit. I wouldn't want to share too many views and approaches with the IS bastards, although that's of course not the argument for evolution itself.

Again, I agree with you. I can't completely rule out (macro) evolution just like I can't completely rule out purple sea monkeys. I have however...seen no convincing evidence for either.

Good, that's a start of a concession as you've very clearly said that it's impossible in the past. Perhaps some reason exists in your mind.

There is nothing sensible about random mutations forming all the life around us. Once again that is just your opinion and one most human beings do not share.

Again it's the opinion shared by most people that causes the world to progress, and your opinion is shared by the uneducated and extremists.

I only asked for proof to illustrate the fact that you can't provide any. I'm sorry man but until you can demonstrate, observe, repeat, or predict (macro) evolution then all you got is a personal opinion. You don't have proof. All you have is a theory based on flimsy evidence and flawed logic. Well, in my humble opinion of course.

To mix it up I'll point out that it's not just an opinion, it's a scientific theory, which is a term that has requirements until something is founded well enough to be called one. There's tons of evidence found in many forms and none speak against the theory yet. They certainly speak against the creationist story though, so believing in that is actively going against what's been found.

Look at how much of your post is dedicated to pure insult. This is what happens when you challenge an evolutionists faith. They react the same way a muslim does when someone draws muhammad.

I was mainly stating the observed facts, they just don't happen to be very flattering. It's funny that you try to draw up the comparison to muslims, when creationists have far, far more in common with them. That's why Turkey now starts living the creationists dream, by dumbing down education, which dumbs down the population, which makes them more likely to be religious.
 
this

and this


is all you need to know, people.
Gotta give rip credit though, he really leaves you nowhere to go with this type of argument. All you're left with is...
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So @TheComebackKid , just some food for thought here. You keep comparing the idea of God's creation vs. "random" processes, dismissing diversity of life in the absence of a creator as unlikely. Why are those the only options? For sure life and the universe in general seems to have order and purpose. This does not in and of itself require a singular creative entity, i.e. "God", in the Abrahamic sense. Perhaps life has the ability to change, adapt, and evolve in profound ways without a supreme head honcho creator. Believing that evolutionary theory, as compelling as any rational human would have to consider it, is incomplete does not leave God, Allah, Zeus, Odin, etc. as the default option.

Interesting though, that it has taken the theory of evolution to bring you to seeing eye to eye with some backwards Muslim shithole of a country. I doubt you'll appreciate my thought that you're closer in mindset than you realize with those assholes but Abrahamics gonna Abrahamic. It's a slippery slope I tell ya.
 
Obviously, this is stupid because evolution is real. But, I love how the American left has such a high tolerance when Muslim communities do or promote "conservative" beliefs while the American left becomes enraged when American Christians do or promote "conservative" beliefs. There is a major double standard there.
Yeah I have been saying that constantly , that the Liberals give Muslims and Islamic society a pass for behavior that is anti-liberal.

Islam is a very rightwing religion and Muslims in general are rightwing and thus very much like our own rightwing. The reason both our rightwing and Muslims dislike each other is because rightwings will always clash when they meet , because the very nature of the right is in-group vs. out-group.
 
And vice versa, right? Something is proven when it can be demonstrated, observed, repeated, and predicted. None of that has happened with evolution. All you have is circumstantial 'evidence' like fossils. Some are convinced by this evidence and some are not. But it's not been objectively proven or concluded.

Can't we leave earth, turn around, and look at it?

There is no vice-versa here. Evolution is called a theory , because scientists conclude the evidence justifies it.

How are you going to leave earth, 99.99% of people alive can not leave earth. If I personally can not leave earth, and 99.99% of the people around me can't either , then why am I going to trust the claims of some individual somewhere.
 
Yeah I have been saying that constantly , that the Liberals give Muslims and Islamic society a pass for behavior that is anti-liberal.

Islam is a very rightwing religion and Muslims in general are rightwing and thus very much like our own rightwing. The reason both our rightwing and Muslims dislike each other is because rightwings will always clash when they meet , because the very nature of the right is in-group vs. out-group.

If Muslims typically voted Republican the American left wouldn't be so high on letting them pour into the country.
 
If Muslims typically voted Republican the American left wouldn't be so high on letting them pour into the country.

Arabs used to actually vote GOP but they changed after NeoConservative Bush admin. They left the GOP, for tribal/ethnic reasons. Bush Jnr got very high % of Arab American voters, about 70+% in Michigan.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...6-trump-bush-dearborn-detroit-michigan-214134

" How the GOP Lost Arab-American Voters "

"The Arab-American community is strongly entrepreneurial, socially conservative and fiscally cautious, all qualities that align with the GOP brand."

Like the GOP grassroots, Arabs also hate Political correctness (unless the PC is to their benefit) and they don't like high taxes because it is mostly going to help non-Arabs. And Arab culture does not like Gays, Feminism, blase sexual norms , Blacks , people perceived as coming from lower races and generally anyone who is not one of them.
 
Excellent. Soon we'll see the first far right nationalistic Islamic dictatorship, but less educated than most 3rd world shit holes. Combine the worst aspects of Burka Fasino, Nazi Germany and Afghanistan? Sounds like Turkey has a bright future.
 
Excellent. Soon we'll see the first far right nationalistic Islamic dictatorship, but less educated than most 3rd world shit holes. Combine the worst aspects of Burka Fasino, Nazi Germany and Afghanistan? Sounds like Turkey has a bright future.
Our government is selling them the F-35. Which they will use to advance their indegenous weapons industry. Even though they are in NATO , we should not be giving them our 5th generation fighters. The Erdogan regime has proven to not only hate democrasy but also hate Western civilization but the West keeps supporting cultures that hate us and want to destroy us.
 
If Muslims typically voted Republican the American left wouldn't be so high on letting them pour into the country.

If the right-wing would realize they have a lot in common with Muslims and stopped thuer islamaphobia then the Muslims probably would vote R. But then again it's R presidents that love bombing their home lands.
 
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