Evolution will no longer be taught in Turkish schools

ShadBo said:
These animals belong to the order Pegasoferae.

I'm pretty sure this order was mentioned in the video with the phologeny challenge (although it may be a different but related video.)

Did you watch that one rip? You usually love yourself some youtube knowledge.
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I did not. where is it?
 
turkey will be next saudi arabia, turkish people want sharia not european democracy
 
Squarechoke said:
How do you determine what's possibilities exist within the gene pool then? Do you understand all the species' genomes that well? After all humans share 60% of the gene pool with bananas.
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You determine by seeing. I don't know if there is a way to ever fully determine what possibilities exist until you see them.

It's not only possible to gain complex new traits, it's been observed. Like the Italian wall lizard developing a new digestive system (which had never been observed before) in decades after being migrated. Decades of course being an absurdly short time in the span of genetic change.
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*sigh* I've addressed this a million times. This is nothing but adaptation. This new digestive system is referring to the presence of 'cecal valves' which are just large stomach muscles that better digest veggies. Guess what? Cecal valves are already seen within other lizard population...just not this particular one. So either random evolutionary changes like 'entire digestive systems' just so happen to randomly recreate themselves within different lizard populations OR...these traits already existed and were brought to the forefront due to their environment. Occums razor and all that.

This example is like all examples of evolution...a leap and a conflation.
 
MicroBrew said:
Just because you say it is "unproven" does not make it so. It is just your opinion.
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And vice versa, right? Something is proven when it can be demonstrated, observed, repeated, and predicted. None of that has happened with evolution. All you have is circumstantial 'evidence' like fossils. Some are convinced by this evidence and some are not. But it's not been objectively proven or concluded.

In the same vein: I can claim the earth is flat because I can not observe/see with my eyes the earth being near spherical (oblate spheroid)
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Can't we leave earth, turn around, and look at it?
 
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jgarner said:
Because that difference exists only in your head and not in evolution. I don't know where you got this idea that micro evolution selects from existing genes and macro evolution doesn't.
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I never said macro evolution doesn't select from existing genes. Where did you get that idea from? The distinction betweenmicro and macro is that one ONLY selects from pre-existing genes/traits where the other not only selects from pre-existing genes but creates entirely new ones through "mutation".

Macro evolution is simply the mutation of existing genes via microevolution compounded over a long period.
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It's not just the mutation of existing genes but mutation that leads to new and more complex features and functions. We've seen genes mutate and degrade already existing features and functions but have we ever seen genes mutate and form new ones?
 
TheGreatA said:
I think they are looking to over-write the entire legacy of the Western civilization and its impact on Turkey, and start over from 1917, prior to Ataturk's reforms.

The evolution theory is merely an incomplete attempt at an explanation about the various phenomenons that we have not yet comprehensively understood. A man can understand scientific concepts without being too deeply invested in evolutionary biology, yes, though I'd still say it's a theory that one ought to be familiar with.

The problem here is that this is simply a part of Erdogan's "anti-Western" campaign, to create an "alternative" Islamic narrative of his own. One that's going to suit his agenda of creating a modern day Caliphate, which he and his successors can reign over as the "Sultanate".

Intellectual castration of the Turks is required before he can fully achieve this feat.

We're not going to be talking about some peaceful Christian community here, which just wishes to live a simple life undisturbed by modern perversions, but a delusional attempt at re-living the Ottoman legacy. That's going to end up pretty damn bad considering how things went for the original.
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Well I definitely don't support any pushes for a population to become "anti-intellectual" nor do I support the re-establishment of the Ottoman legacy. But if we're talking about strictly the topic of (macro)Evolution then I fully support not teaching theories and fantasy as settled science. I think people are better off without the theory of (macro) Evolution.
 
TheComebackKid said:
You determine by seeing. I don't know if there is a way to ever fully determine what possibilities exist until you see them.



*sigh* I've addressed this a million times. This is nothing but adaptation. This new digestive system is referring to the presence of 'cecal valves' which are just large stomach muscles that better digest veggies. Guess what? Cecal valves are already seen within other lizard population...just not this particular one. So either random evolutionary changes like 'entire digestive systems' just so happen to randomly recreate themselves within different lizard populations OR...these traits already existed and were brought to the forefront due to their environment. Occums razor and all that.

This example is like all examples of evolution...a leap and a conflation.
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Lol, so what you're saying now is that you don't know what possibilities exist, at the same time as your overall argument is that certain things can't happen. You really ruined your argument since they are mutually exclusive. Either you know what possibilities exist and can therefor say that something can't happen, or you don't know what possibilities exist (which is logical given how much dna all living beings share) and therefor can't say exactly what can and cannot happen.

And of course it's adaption, we're talking about evolution. You should sigh less and focus more on not stating the extremely obvious (not all of us are uneducated enough to have to be told in the thread what a theory is). I presented that fact as it was in line with what you talked about, which was complex changes in a species.
 
Squarechoke said:
Lol, so what you're saying now is that you don't know what possibilities exist, at the same time as your overall argument is that certain things can't happen. You really ruined your argument since they are mutually exclusive. Either you know what possibilities exist and can therefor say that something can't happen, or you don't know what possibilities exist (which is logical given how much dna all living beings share) and therefor can't say exactly what can and cannot happen.
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It is also possible that purple sea monkeys are flying around outer space and we just haven't seen them. But it is possible, right...right? Is that really your argument? You went from "(macro) Evolution is proven fact!" to "well, we can't rule it out..." Lol, the weakest of sauce I ever did see.

Plus I don't know if I ever said it can't happen but rather we've never seen it happen, it's unproven, and it doesn't even make sense theoretically.

And of course it's adaption, we're talking about evolution. You should sigh less and focus more on not stating the extremely obvious (not all of us are uneducated enough to have to be told in the thread what a theory is). I presented that fact as it was in line with what you talked about, which was complex changes in a species.
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I'm not talking about simply "complex changes in a species". I'm talking about the development of new genetic information that leads to new, more complex features and functions. That is what macro evolution is and that is what is necessary for a single cell organism to evolve into everything we see. And you have exactly 0 examples of that. And...it doesn't even make sense theoretically.
 
TheComebackKid said:
It is also possible that purple sea monkeys are flying around outer space and we just haven't seen them. But it is possible, right...right? Is that really your argument? You went from "(macro) Evolution is proven fact!" to "well, we can't rule it out..." Lol, the weakest of sauce I ever did see.

Plus I don't know if I ever said it can't happen but rather we've never seen it happen, it's unproven, and it doesn't even make sense theoretically.
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Show me all the evidence built up for purple sea monkeys and see if that matches all the evidence for evolution and you might have a point. But since you can't you just showed how out of your league you are here because that was really, really unintelligent. And no, I've stated that evolution is by far (understatement) the most well founded explanation for how life came to be, and what I said to you now isn't an argument for evolution but merely a deconstruction of the argument you made. You definitely need to learn to separate such fundamental things if you're to be discussing anything.

So again, how can you say that something that has plenty of evidence supporting it definitely can't happen if you at the same time don't know what options are available?

Evolution makes perfect sense theoretically, at least to anyone with decent education and that's not an unintelligent supporter of blind belief that will have a clear agenda since his fairy tale is being threatened by observation and evidence. There's plenty of scientists that challenge the theory in the name of science (and we've had plenty of changes to it) but they of course don't come off as dumb as your simple refutes.

TheComebackKid said:
I'm not talking about simply "complex changes in a species". I'm talking about the development of new genetic information that leads to new, more complex features and functions. That is what macro evolution is and that is what is necessary for a single cell organism to evolve into everything we see. And you have exactly 0 examples of that. And...it doesn't even make sense theoretically.
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What doesn't make sense is that you're asking for direct proof for things that's happened over millions of years. Of course that's not going to be available. There's plenty of evidence around though and all findings support the theory. You just disagree because you're a blind supporter of a fairy tale that definitely doesn't align with the findings that have been made, plus that you've proven to be so uneducated that you didn't even know what a theory is. If you fail at comprehension of such fundamental things you're of course not going to understand much about the talk around the theory of evolution.

There's a reason you don't have proper phylogeny charts of "kinds", because it will make it all that much clearer that it doesn't even come close to adding up.
 
Turkey is going full retard. not really surprising since the overwhelming majority of population is religious, and Muslims at that.
and lol at this thread. why are people arguing over and over with these religious retards? havent your learned the first time?
 
Bagatur said:
Turkey is going full retard. not really surprising since the overwhelming majority of population is religious, and Muslims at that.
and lol at this thread. why are people arguing over and over with these religious retards? havent your learned the first time?
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At least I'm doing it for the entertainment factor. It doesn't matter that you can't change the mind of a religious nut since they have less and less influence on our western world as we've put them on leashes. They realize deep down that the world that the secular people built is much better than what was back when religion had actual rule.
 
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