Dick's and Walmart Are Being Sued for Age Discrimination re Gun Sales

Lord Coke

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https://d3aya7xwz8momx.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Age-Discrimination-Laws-2018.pdf


The actual corporate gun lobby i.e. the NSSF has compiled a list of states that have state age discrimination laws which Dick's and Walmart are violating due to their new 21 and over law for gun sales. The list is linked above. So far suits have been brought in Michigan and Oregon. I believe the list to be accurate but incomplete because California has a law called the Unruh Act which might be used to bring a lawsuit. If you practice in the states listed this is as close to free money as it gets.
http://reason.com/volokh/2018/03/07/michigan-lawsuit-against-dicks-sporting


In Fulton v. Dick's Sporting Goods, Inc., filed yesterday, an 18-year-old plaintiff is suing over Dick's refusing -- based on his age -- to sell him a rifle. Michigan law categorically prohibits age discrimination except where allowed by other provisions (which would include laws banning alcohol sales to under-21-year-olds, the federal law banning handgun sales by licensed gun dealers to under-21-year-olds, and the like):

Except where permitted by law, a person shall not:

(a) Deny an individual the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation or public service [which includes retailers -EV] because of religion, race, color, national origin, age, sex, or marital status.

(b) Print, circulate, post, mail, or otherwise cause to be published a statement, advertisement, notice, or sign which indicates that the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation or public service will be refused, withheld from, or denied an individual because of religion, race, color, national origin, age, sex, or marital status, or that an individual's patronage of or presence at a place of public accommodation is objectionable, unwelcome, unacceptable, or undesirable because of religion, race, color, national origin, age, sex, or marital status.

Plaintiff is seeking damages, injunctions, costs, and attorney fees. (Under the Michigan statute, sec. 37.2802, a court is authorized but not required to award costs and attorney fees to prevailing plaintiffs.) I don't know of any provision in Michigan law that "permit" refusing to sell rifles or shotguns to 18-to-20-year-olds, so this seems like a winning claim, like the Oregon lawsuit against Dick's and Walmart that I blogged about yesterday.

My question: Doesn't Dick Sporting Goods have a legal department? I'd think a company with stores nationwide would realize that age discrimination might be illegal in some states, would quickly review what those states might be, and would then simply set up a policy that excludes them. True, the companies are presumably trying to make a public statement with their no-gun-sales-to-under-21-year-olds policy; but that statement shouldn't be much diluted by an exception for some states when the explanation for the exception is that they have to comply with the law. And now the news is shifting to "Dick's Sporting Goods being sued for illegal discrimination" instead of "Dick's Sporting Goods is taking a stand to try to prevent gun crime," which was presumably Dick's goal.

Nor are these some sorts of obscure laws that would be a surprise even to company lawyers. Perhaps some city and county ordinances might be, though I take it that retailers are aware that localities sometimes have special rules; but state antidiscrimination laws, including ones that reach far beyond federal law, are well-known, and the fact that different states have different rules is, too. It shouldn't be a surprise that, even if many states don't ban age discrimination in retail sales, a substantial minority of states does. And nationwide bricks-and-mortar retailers must have learned over the decades that they need to think about laws being different in different states.

Now perhaps I'm expecting too much -- perhaps it's just that mistakes happen in business, and the failure to properly vet the policy is one of them. Or perhaps this wasn't a mistake, and Dick's deliberately thought that a blanket policy, even if it's illegal in some states, would get it much more public relations punch than a policy that excepted some states. Or perhaps the Dick's management has such a firm moral opposition to sales of rifles and shotguns to 18-to-20-year-olds that it doesn't mind a few lawsuits (though I suspect that, while some corporate managers are militantly opposed to selling guns, few would be fine with selling guns to 21-year-olds, but be so firmly opposed to selling to 20-year-olds that they'd deliberately violate the law as a result). In any case, this failure to take into account state antidiscrimination laws seemed like an odd business decision.
 
https://d3aya7xwz8momx.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Age-Discrimination-Laws-2018.pdf


The actual corporate gun lobby i.e. the NSSF has compiled a list of states that have state age discrimination laws which Dick's and Walmart are violating due to their new 21 and over law for gun sales. The list is linked above. So far suits have been brought in Michigan and Oregon. I believe the list to be accurate but incomplete because California has a law called the Unruh Act which might be used to bring a lawsuit. If you practice in the states listed this is as close to free money as it gets.
http://reason.com/volokh/2018/03/07/michigan-lawsuit-against-dicks-sporting

The hypocriscy from all sides at this point is making my face hurt. The Right's position is that a business can run it's business any way it sees fit, correct?
 
This should be intresting and they might win.

I actually support the bussness in this case.

However I can understand the case as age discrimination.
 
Interesting - quoted from a MI pro-gun forum:

Michigan has laws in place that require car rental companies to rent to licensed drivers 18 and older.

Historically, vehicle rental companies in Michigan have routinely refused to rent to individuals between the ages of 18 and 24. This violates the age provisions of the Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act, which protects individuals from discrimination regardless of their chronological age.

On November 17, 2000, MDCR (that's the Michigan Department of Civil Rights) entered into a settlement agreement in the case of MDCR, ex rel. Philip Bickham v. Hertz Rent-a-Car, MDCR No. 113521-PA32. That agreement provides that the Hertz will comply with the Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act and also rent vehicles to individuals between ages 18 and 24. If the rates charged by Hertz for renting to customers in this age group are higher than standard rental rates, the higher rate must be justified. This is the second such agreement; a similar agreement was reached with Thrifty Rent-A-Car in December, 1999.
 
The hypocriscy from all sides at this point is making my face hurt. The Right's position is that a business can run it's business any way it sees fit, correct?

This is about free money. You have to chase the wave in this life. brother. Every man's wave is a little different but for the solo practitioner this is the North Shore in February.
 
Lame

But it’s what happens when you make anti discrimination laws. They can be used for good or bad
 
Interesting - quoted from a MI pro-gun forum:

Michigan has laws in place that require car rental companies to rent to licensed drivers 18 and older.

Historically, vehicle rental companies in Michigan have routinely refused to rent to individuals between the ages of 18 and 24. This violates the age provisions of the Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act, which protects individuals from discrimination regardless of their chronological age.

On November 17, 2000, MDCR (that's the Michigan Department of Civil Rights) entered into a settlement agreement in the case of MDCR, ex rel. Philip Bickham v. Hertz Rent-a-Car, MDCR No. 113521-PA32. That agreement provides that the Hertz will comply with the Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act and also rent vehicles to individuals between ages 18 and 24. If the rates charged by Hertz for renting to customers in this age group are higher than standard rental rates, the higher rate must be justified. This is the second such agreement; a similar agreement was reached with Thrifty Rent-A-Car in December, 1999.

They may just have a case here.
 
the left is anti discrimination while actively discriminating against certain people

also, this new push to raise the required age to buy a gun is really annoying given the military and voting aspects .. 'hey you can't buy a gun until you're 21 because at your age you don't really have the mental capacity yet to handle firearms .. by the way would you like to join the army so we can send you off to fight in war zones ?' .. 'also, even though we think you're too stupid and emotionally undeveloped to handle firearms, go ahead and vote and influence the long term direction of the country' .. they don't even know wtf they're doing .. just pandering to random whims
 
The hypocriscy from all sides at this point is making my face hurt. The Right's position is that a business can run it's business any way it sees fit, correct?
I do know there's on instance of a Dick's employee leaving and suing them cause he was 20 and working the gun counter and is a hunter... so at 20 he can sell the gun but can't buy one to go hunting.
 
This should be intresting and they might win.

I actually support the bussness in this case.

However I can understand the case as age discrimination.

I do wonder how many 18-20 year olds were actually purchasing firearms at Wally World or Dicks Overpriced Apparel. I agree though... fuck it, let the free market sort it out.
 
The hypocriscy from all sides at this point is making my face hurt. The Right's position is that a business can run it's business any way it sees fit, correct?

Within reason. This isn't a complicated discrimination case, where say religious freedom is involved. This is just straight up discrimination.

If Dick's wants to stop selling guns altogether, they're free to do so. However, if they want to be able to sell guns, they have to adhere to the laws in place that allow people of a certain age to purchase them. They can't just make up their own laws.
 
Dicks should say they are not going to sell guns to gays and the right would support them again.
 
I do wonder how many 18-20 year olds were actually purchasing firearms at Wally World or Dicks Overpriced Apparel. I agree though... fuck it, let the free market sort it out.
A lot. The Dicks up the road from me sells plenty to the young military guys that get stationed here
 
Within reason. This isn't a complicated discrimination case, where say religious freedom is involved. This is just straight up discrimination.

If Dick's wants to stop selling guns altogether, they're free to do so. However, if they want to be able to sell guns, they have to adhere to the laws in place that allow people of a certain age to purchase them. They can't just make up their own laws.

This was kind of his point... the Right (in general) supported the Christian bakers who didn't want to make a gay wedding cake. Why can't they support Wally/Dicks for not wanting to sell firearms to anyone under the age of 21?
 
This was kind of his point... the Right (in general) supported the Christian bakers who didn't want to make a gay wedding cake. Why can't they support Wally/Dicks for not wanting to sell firearms to anyone under the age of 21?

Other than the obvious reasons, I'd say because one issue is more complicated than the other. Dick's isn't citing any religious freedom that would prohibit them from selling guns to younger people. They're just discriminating based on...what exactly? A school shooting? That's not a valid reason.

This is like if a gun store wanted to stop selling to blacks, because of some gang violence they read about in Chicago. You can't do that.

Unless the State changes the laws, I don't think Dick's has a leg to stand on here.
 
Knew this was coming. Whether you agree or disagree with guns sales to 18-20 year olds, I think this is clearly against the same discrimination laws designed to stop a person from refusing service to someone based on skin color, religion, sexual preference, etc. Age is also a protected aspect of that
 
This was kind of his point... the Right (in general) supported the Christian bakers who didn't want to make a gay wedding cake. Why can't they support Wally/Dicks for not wanting to sell firearms to anyone under the age of 21?

The difference isn't that the bakers wouldn't make a cake for a gay couple, they wouldn't make a gay wedding cake even if sold to straight people. It was the product, not the customer, they were refusing

Dicks has every right to no longer sell AR15s to anyone at all, but I believe they are breaking discrimination laws by not selling rifles/shotgun to people aged 18-20 when they law says they can legally buy that
 
The difference isn't that the bakers wouldn't make a cake for a gay couple, they wouldn't make a gay wedding cake even if sold to straight people. It was the product, not the customer, they were refusing
Do you use different ingredients when making a gay cake?
 
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