Commemorating 34 dead and 174 wounded U.S Sailors is "hateful," but the murderers are not hateful?

[oldshadow]

Why would they attack a US ship other then by accident?

What woupd they have to gain?

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

Israel apologized immediately and made financial restitutions in 1968 and 1980.

I can only imagine how outraged @abiG is at all the other deaths of US servicemen that haven’t been apologized and paid for. Must be loads of threads on those...

Yes, but look at her post to likes ratio. Interesting isn't it?

And Trump is President, whew lawd what a time to be alive.

 

[jefferz]

Yes, and all the Americans who were there that very day are lying.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Go read the declassified Israeli communication cables, showing the ongoing 14 hour attack, clearly flown American flag, multiple attempts by the Liberty to identify itself, ect.

The official narrative of this was completely debunked by Israel's own communications.

• Exclusive: Audio tapesfrom Israeli jets, proved Israel identified the USS Liberty as American before its forces attacked the ship in 1967.
• Exclusive: first reveal of the network of pro-Israel agents inside the Lyndon Johnson administration – identified in declassified Israeli documents by codenames – who fed secret information back to Jerusalem and worked to sway the president to cover up the attack on the Liberty
• Sole dissenting voice in the Israeli camp, documents show, was the Ambassador to US, Avraham Harman, who sent a secret cable noting the audio tapes existence, and saying those responsible should be put on trial
• Several of America’s most senior intelligence and State Department officials were convinced Israel intentionally targeted an American ship. Despite those convictions, the US Government, aware of the tapes, and receiving Russian made weapons haul from Israel, deliberately covered up the extent of the attack, and released inaccurate, watered-down reports that exonerated Israel of blame
• A media blackout on the ship and the families was issued, and a team of 300 Maltese workers worked 6 weeks to repair the ship and hide the damage before it arrived back in the US.

http://pr.aljazeera.com/post/101339900710/israel-knowingly-attacked-us-military-ship-in-1967

 

[Phr3121]

Israel apologized immediately and made financial restitutions in 1968 and 1980.

No, it wasn't 'immediately', and the restitution was 'shit' compared to what the family of those sailors should have received. Some families denied that money. Just look at financial aid received by Oskar Schindler from Jews after WWII when he was broke. It is a joke, and he saved 1,200 Jewish lives.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

No, it wasn't 'immediately', and the restitution was 'shit' compared to what the family of those sailors should have received. Some families denied that money. Just look at financial aid received by Oskar Schindler from Jews after WWII when he was broke. It is a joke, and he saved 1,200 Jewish lives.

It was within a year. That’s pretty immediate in these kind of international situations. It took the USA 100 years to apologize for the overthrow of our lawful Hawaiian government and still haven’t given us shit, so I guess it’s all relative.

Was Israeli restitution more or less than what American families affected by slavery for generations received? More or less than received by Canadians killed by Americans in the Tarnak Farm incident in 2002? I could go on forever like this...

Edit: and I’m not hating on the USA, I’m a proud American and former trusted federal employee with a Secret security clearance. My point is this is nitpicky and another example of holding Israel to higher standards than her neighbors, and even the USA, for “some reason.” All deaths during wartime are tragic, particularly friendly fire incidents.

 

[Phr3121]

It took the USA 100 years to apologize for the overthrow of our lawful Hawaiian government and still haven’t given us shit, so I guess it’s all relative.

Overthrow? That's news to me. Would you like to go back to being your own country? Hawaii is in a sorry state of affairs, this with Federal aid. Hawaii wasn't even a state when it was attacked by the Japanese.

Was Israeli restitution more or less than what American families affected by slavery for generations received? More or less than received by Canadians killed by Americans in the Tarnak Farm incident in 2002? I could go on forever like this...

Apples and oranges. Slaves and American Indians falls under a different category. Plenty of accidents. Remember the Iran Air Flight 655 that was shot down by the U.S. Navy in 1988? Let's finish addressing Israeli restitution first, and I'm still waiting for them to return stolen Uranium from U.S. nuclear facilities.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

Overthrow? That's news to me. Would you like to go back to being your own country? Hawaii is in a sorry state of affairs, this with Federal aid. Hawaii wasn't even a state when it was attacked by the Japanese.



Apples and oranges. Slaves and American Indians falls under a different category. Plenty of accidents. Remember the Iran Air Flight 655 that was shot down by the U.S. Navy in 1988? Let's finish addressing Israeli restitution first, and I'm still waiting for them to return stolen Uranium from U.S. nuclear facilities.

1) yes it was an unlawful overthrow of a lawful government. That’s a fact. I’m not personally upset over it (as my edit indicates) but lots of people are

2) only four states rely on federal aid less than Hawaii:
https://taxfoundation.org/states-rely-most-federal-aid/
And I definitely would not choose to live in any of them over here.

3) the rest of your deflections and ignoring my point are noted. You hold Israel to a different standard than you do other countries regarding friendly fire incidents and that’s fine.

 

[ocfightfan]

Accidents happen, Israel has nothing to gain by deliberately attacking a US ship.

 

[Phr3121]

1) yes it was an unlawful overthrow of a lawful government. That’s a fact.

"In the 1950s, eager to gain full representation in Congress and the Electoral College, residents actively campaigned for statehood. In Washington there was talk that Hawaii would be a Republican Party stronghold so it was matched with the admission of Alaska, seen as a Democratic Party stronghold."

"In March 1959, Congress passed the Hawaii Admission Act, which U.S. President Eisenhower signed into law. The act excluded Palmyra Atoll from statehood; it had been part of the Kingdom and Territory of Hawaii. On June 27, 1959, a referendum asked residents of Hawaii to vote on the statehood bill; 94.3% voted in favor of statehood and 5.7% opposed it."

Do you prefer that Hawaii be like Puerto Rico is today? They would love to be the 51st state.

2) only four states rely on federal aid less than Hawaii. And I definitely would not choose to live in any of them over here.

That is interesting. Why would Oregon, Montana, and Maine rely so heavily on federal funding?

3) the rest of your deflections and ignoring my point are noted. You hold Israel to a different standard than you do other countries regarding friendly fire incidents and that’s fine.

You have to remember that the Israelis fired on that ship on three separate occasions. No my friend, that is not an accident or mistake. They were trying to sink the ship so no evidence would exist.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

"In the 1950s, eager to gain full representation in Congress and the Electoral College, residents actively campaigned for statehood. In Washington there was talk that Hawaii would be a Republican Party stronghold so it was matched with the admission of Alaska, seen as a Democratic Party stronghold."

"In March 1959, Congress passed the Hawaii Admission Act, which U.S. President Eisenhower signed into law. The act excluded Palmyra Atoll from statehood; it had been part of the Kingdom and Territory of Hawaii. On June 27, 1959, a referendum asked residents of Hawaii to vote on the statehood bill; 94.3% voted in favor of statehood and 5.7% opposed it."

Do you prefer that Hawaii be like Puerto Rico is today? They would love to be the 51st state.



That is interesting. Why would Oregon, Montana, and Maine rely so heavily on federal funding?



You have to remember that the Israelis fired on that ship on three separate occasions. No my friend, that is not an accident or mistake. They were trying to sink the ship so no evidence would exist.

Yeah statehood is preferable to being a colony. That’s a completely separate matter from the overthrow of the Hawaiian government which resulted in Hawaii becoming a US territory.

Besides, I already told you I’m happy being part of the US. Not everyone shares my position. President Clinton issued an apology for a reason. Regardless of anyone’s feelings about whether they prefer American citizenship now, the US did objectively horrible things in the occupation of Hawaii like outlawing native religion and language and essentially a “Denationalization” plan that amounted to genocide.

Edit: regarding your last point, then it is worse than I thought. But in 1968 they apologized for an abhorrent act in 1967. There’s enough to criticize Israel over today without dredging this up. Both my maternal grandparents survived the Nazi Holocaust, my grandfather being literally the only surviving member of his family. Germany has apologized and even they accepted it. I certainly hold no ill feelings toward the German government or people. For me to start a thread over it for the purpose of my Two Minutes Hate would be inconceivable to me. Just as it would be for the genocide of my father’s people by the US government.

 

[Phr3121]

Edit: regarding your last point, then it is worse than I thought. But in 1968 they apologized for an abhorrent act in 1967. There’s enough to criticize Israel over today without dredging this up. Both my maternal grandparents survived the Nazi Holocaust, my grandfather being literally the only surviving member of his family. Germany has apologized and even they accepted it. I certainly hold no ill feelings toward the German government or people. For me to start a thread over it for the purpose of my Two Minutes Hate would be inconceivable to me. Just as it would be for the genocide of my father’s people by the US government.

Check my post, #7, and the link listed there (USS Liberty incident). I applaud you on your attitude against hate. It only consumes a person and leads to more hate, a circle of hate. I have not reached that point yet, where you are, and I'm Catholic. Still working on it.

I was in the U.S. Army for many years. I read a lot about battles and war - past and present. Atrocities and war crimes were committed by every major Army in history. We Americans are no different. Confederate and Union prisons during the American Civil War had similar conditions to Nazi concentration camps in 1945. Brother against brother. Truly amazing what humans can do to each other, and this was 1865. The U.S. Army slaughter the American Indian. Men, women and children. We also ran the Japanese camps just after Pearl harbor in 1941. Those were American citizen being held in a camp. They later proved to be some of the best soldiers who fought in the European theater. U.S. and British bombings of Dresden (Germany) was a war crime. Four (4) separate bombings, day and night. No military value. 25,000 dead, men, women, and children.

In some ways Jewish hate of the Arabs is similar to Nazi hate of the Jews. They have become the very thing that they despised:

"The question to be asked is how long can the history of anti-semitism and the Holocaust be used as a fence to exempt Israel from arguments and sanctions against it for its behavior towards the Palestinians, arguments and sanctions that were used against other repressive governments, such as South Africa? How long are we going to deny that the cries of the people of Gaza... are directly connected to the policies of the Israeli government and not to the cries of the victims of Nazism? You cannot continue to victimize someone else just because you yourself were a victim once, there has to be a limit." Author: Edward Said

 

[Roaming East]

Israel didnt 'deliberately' attack the Liberty. What occured was extremely shit target identification, compounded by lack of centralized control of weapons release. Basically Israeli aircraft and ships operated on a 'trust your gut' kinda thing, and once the shooting starts, its hard to reign it in because nobody short of the president had the authority to tell them to knock that shit off. So you got pilots asking 'hey what nation is that ship?' and control (like usual in EVERY military) not knowing what the fuck is up and saying 'just do what you want'. pilots bombing shit and the navy getting in on the action because why the fuck not, its already being shot at so it MUST be an enemy.

 

[Phr3121]

Israel didn't 'deliberately' attack the Liberty.

Yeah, of course not. They attacked the ship 3 separate times and their planes were unmarked.

What occurred was extremely shit target identification

Yeah, of course. I'm sure they could recognize an Israeli flag if they saw one on a ship, plane, or tank. They can't see a red-and-white stripped flag but they can sure see the Star-of-David. Last time I checked pilots needed to be 20/20 on vision and not color blind.

 

[Phr3121]

@Roaming East - Why is your name in yellow? You don't even have a card. I've been seeing a lot of people with names in 'yellow' lately. I guess if you do get a 'yellow card' things won't change much.

 

[Roaming East]

@Roaming East - Why is your name in yellow? You don't even have a card. I've been seeing a lot of people with names in 'yellow' lately. I guess if you do get a 'yellow card' things won't change much.

mod rules against 'slurs'. I test it out every now and then to see what gets you notified. I crack on black folks or Hispanics and its alright, i say anything untoward about jews and i get yellowed. This time i think i got yellowed for using the term 'cracker' non-ironically. So whites are the protected race of the month this time.

 

[Roaming East]

Yeah, of course not. They attacked the ship 3 separate times and their planes were unmarked.



Yeah, of course. I'm sure they could recognize an Israeli flag if they saw one on a ship, plane, or tank. They can't see a red-and-white stripped flag but they can sure see the Star-of-David. Last time I checked pilots needed to be 20/20 on vision and not color blind.

not a matter of colorblindness. Most ground attack strikes are conducted at about 5000 feet. At that altitude, you are NOT going to be making out a flag designed to be seen from ground level, especially in a strike envelope attitude. Used to do ground and artillery strikes as a profession you know. Saying goes, 'everything looks hostile from 5 angels' is a warning to ground pounders not to get overly enthusiastic about calling in danger close air taskings. The USAF is particularly notorious for our inability to distinguish friendly from non.

But this isnt about that. i 100% believe that the initial attack was indeed a case of mistaken identity. The FAULT however lies in that once the error was made known, Israeli communications were too incompetent, and the chain of action to loose, to do anything about it. In the US military, every sortie 'action' is a separate engagementt. An A-10 or whatever has to ask for reauthorization for each weapons release or pass as directed. Apparently the Israelis operate by a 'dog pile' methodology wherein once an attack is begun, its impossible to call the motherfuckers off because they have free pass to deploy munitions whenever and however they see fit. So one jet performs a sortie, realizes he may have fucked up, but has not command ability to call off other units from attacking that same target. its fucking retarded and pretty much what i expect from the IDF given how cavalier their military tends to be run. They give their guys super wide berth to fuck shit up and dont tend to prosecute for them so its an institutional bias against restraint.

This is an aerial view of the NN shipyard here in virginia. this is about 2,000 feet up. That Carrier in the background? one of the largest ships in the USN? can you see its flag? Now imagine your on a terminal attack going 350kts. trying to identify a ship half as big. Your identify/engage window in this shot is about 2 seconds. and you've been told by GCI no allied ships are in the area.

 

[Phr3121]

mod rules against 'slurs'. I test it out every now and then to see what gets you notified.

Ha, that's news to me. Weird... Man, the whole forum is going to be 'yellow' in the near future.

 

[VivaRevolution]

It makes literally no sense for the Israeli's to attack their single greatest ally. There is no logic too it. Not one ounce of it. So this is all unsubstantiated bullshit. Its like leftist tin foil hattism.

The way I understood what happened was the Liberty entered a hot combat zone. Once Israel boarded the ship they realized they made a mistake. Maybe this is wrong but I cannot imagine why they would attack a nation that supports them like the US does.

However, Liberty survivors, and some former U.S. officials, believe that the attack was deliberate, staged to conceal Israel’s pending seizure of Syria’s Golan Heights, which occurred the next day. The ship’s listening devices would likely have overheard Israeli military communications planning this controversial operation. Captain McGonagle was later awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for his heroic command of the Liberty during and after the attack.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/israel-attacks-uss-liberty

 

[Son of Jamin]

Ok, lets say that Israel intentionally wanted to hit that ship...

What did they hope they would gain by attacking an ally?