Chuck Norris's Judo useless grappling with the Gracies

spacetime said:
Don't you see the sadness in referencing the 1950?? Really?
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Errr... What? I’m just stating that you keep repeating a myth as if it were documented fact. I am trying to help you recover from your Helioitis. It is a very embarrasing disease after all.
 
Kaffe said:
Errr... What? I’m just stating that you keep repeating a myth as if it were documented fact. I am trying to help you recover from your Helioitis. It is a very embarrasing disease after all.
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I am referencing Judo in the 80s with much more newaza than today, and it sill got demolished by the Gracies. Judo in the 50s had even more Newaza and was hardly distinguishable from BJJ
 
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spacetime said:
Judokas newaza is not white belt but it sure sucks compared to bjj. Kimura did not finish Helio in the time he declared and lost the challenge in actuality
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Yoshida was more or less even with Royce Gracie on the ground both times they competed (Royce was much better at striking). Considering Yoshida was weak on the ground for an Olympic level judoka, the only way to say judo's newaza sucks is to say Royce's BJJ sucks - ie that Royce should have been say a BJJ blue belt.

BJJ is better on the ground than judo because they spend 90% of their time on the ground, whereas judo spends 80% of its time on their feet. Of course BJJ is going to be better on the ground and judo on their feet (either throwing or avoiding being throw/taken down). But to say that judo sucks on the ground and BJJ sucks at throws is a huge generalization; many judoka are good on the ground, many BJJ'ers have good throws. That doesn't mean judoka are going to win the mundials or BJJ'ers judo in the Olympics, but elite people in either are going to beat recreational people in the other.
 
spacetime said:
I am referencing Judo in the 80s with much more newaza than today, and it sill got demolished by the Gracies. Judo in the 50s had even more Newaza and was hardly distinguishable from BJJ
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Yoshida held his own against Royce in early 2000. Just saying.
 
backlight said:
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The only way for any judoka to have gotten as good as Rickson on the ground (even assuming the same knowledge, which is simply not the case) is to have spent as much time on the ground as Rickson has. Which meant that judoka would have spent 90% of their time on the ground. No top level judoka has ever done that.

Jacare has excellent throws. He's going to throw around most recreational judo black belts. He's not winning at Olympic level judo. For the same reason, not enough time on his feet.
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
Yoshida was more or less even with Royce Gracie on the ground both times they competed (Royce was much better at striking). Considering Yoshida was weak on the ground for an Olympic level judoka, the only way to say judo's newaza sucks is to say Royce's BJJ sucks - ie that Royce should have been say a BJJ blue belt.

BJJ is better on the ground than judo because they spend 90% of their time on the ground, whereas judo spends 80% of its time on their feet. Of course BJJ is going to be better on the ground and judo on their feet (either throwing or avoiding being throw/taken down). But to say that judo sucks on the ground and BJJ sucks at throws is a huge generalization; many judoka are good on the ground, many BJJ'ers have good throws. That doesn't mean judoka are going to win the mundials or BJJ'ers judo in the Olympics, but elite people in either are going to beat recreational people in the other.
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I am saying Judos newaza sucks compared to BJJ. It is fine enough against a guy who doesn't know aything
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
Royce and Helio didn't know anything? Boy, you have tough standards.
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Royce is not even near the all time greats in submission grappling. It is perfectly possible for a submission wrestler like Hughes, or a judoka, to dominate him.
 
spacetime said:
Royce is not even near the all time greats in submission grappling. It is perfectly possible for a submission wrestler like Hughes, or a judoka, to dominate him.
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Sure, but your statement is a lot stronger than that. You're not just saying a top level judoka is not beating a top level BJJ'er on the ground (fairly non-controversial, just as saying a top level BJJ'er is not beating a top level judoka with throws), you're saying that top level judoka sucks - is in fact like a white belt (the Chuck Norris quote you like).

Which means that anyone who can be held to a standstill by any judoka must suck, because if someone sucks that means the only people they can compete with are other people who suck.

Which means Helio and Royce sucked.

BTW, if you think your average recreational BJJ black belt (there are over 5000 of them) is going to hold their own against Royce you're in dream land. Its like thinking your average recreational basketball player is going to hold his own against the last guy on the bench in the NBA. Try competing against even the worst professional in some activity you do recreationally - you'll find out why that last guy riding the pine in the NBA is still getting 500K a year to play basketball.
 
Fuck's sakes it's a Spacetime I need attention cause "Mommy didn't pop a boob or change my poppy diaper when I cried" thread.

Next!
 
RJ Green said:
-1/10.

walker texas ranger telling an anecdote bout getting his ass kicked by the gracies during a fuckin infomercial stings to the point where ima turn my back on a dozen years of training and just play scoots-and-footsies until i'm dead?

the same chuck norris who wasn't like 'yeah bruce, we should probably end the fight in any other bobdamn way besides you breaking my neck from a standing arm-in guillotine since that's not how that works'?

i give about as many fucks about the average american judo black belt's insight as to their ground proficiency as i do about the average BJJ blue belt's insight into their takedown proficiency.

which is zero. zero fucks given.
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spacetime said:
Royce has never been concidered a great BJJ guy. Matt Hughes made him look like a fool.
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He beat Renzo too.

Royler Gracie, Ryan Gracie... all fools in the head of Spacetime.
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
Sure, but your statement is a lot stronger than that. You're not just saying a top level judoka is not beating a top level BJJ'er on the ground (fairly non-controversial, just as saying a top level BJJ'er is not beating a top level judoka with throws), you're saying that top level judoka sucks - is in fact like a white belt (the Chuck Norris quote you like).

Which means that anyone who can be held to a standstill by any judoka must suck, because if someone sucks that means the only people they can compete with are other people who suck.

Which means Helio and Royce sucked.

BTW, if you think your average recreational BJJ black belt (there are over 5000 of them) is going to hold their own against Royce you're in dream land. Its like thinking your average recreational basketball player is going to hold his own against the last guy on the bench in the NBA. Try competing against even the worst professional in some activity you do recreationally - you'll find out why that last guy riding the pine in the NBA is still getting 500K a year to play basketball.
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Compared to the elite in BJJ Royce was never great
 
Also, comparing "groundgame" is noob stuff. A BJJ guy is better under his rules? Go figure.

How good are they at applying osaekomi or escaping in time? Scoring reversals? Racking up riding time? Forcing matte and standups?

Nice try though, spacetime. You've annoyed a bunch of people.
 
Bluesbreaker said:
Also, comparing "groundgame" is noob stuff. A BJJ guy is better under his rules? Go figure.

How good are they at applying osaekomi or escaping in time? Scoring reversals? Racking up riding time? Forcing matte and standups?

Nice try though, spacetime. You've annoyed a bunch of people.
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I bet you Rickson would smash the Judokas under their newaza rules in the Olympics too. 100%
 
Bluesbreaker said:
I bet you he wouldn't. Judokas force matte at least 99/100 times.

Nice try, though.
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Rickson subs ANY judoka on the ground at will, under any rules. I would bet everything I have on that. Why the fuck would the Judo ground rules give him problem? The ground is his home
 
spacetime said:
Rickson subs ANY judoka on the ground at will, under any rules. I would bet everything I have on that. Why the fuck would the Judo ground rules give him problem? The ground is his home
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Um, because if there is a moment where nothing looks like it's happening, the ref will stand them up.

Will await your reply, once you are familiar with judo.
 
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