Calvillo vs Calderwood: post-fight exchange

[CPH]

I don't think Holly came in overweight.

And I'm not comparing her to Hendricks, not sure where you're getting that. And the fact that she knew months in advance what weight the fight would be at, then not bothering to make weight isn't hyperbole, its just a fact.

I'm just saying, if you didn't hold up your end of the deal, that you signed off on, months in advance, maybe just be grateful that your opponent agreed to still fight. Maybe be thankful that the AC allowed you to compete despite the fact you didn't meet the most basic requirement of the bout agreement.

If you're struggling with weight, move up. Don't put your opponents, the AC, the promotion in a position where they have to cater to your personal struggles. Its selfish to miss weight. And its ridiculous to then act the way she did after doing so.

Anyway, from what I've read, I think she plans on moving up now. And I wish her the best. It probably sounds like I'm hating on her but I'm not. I'm just hating on her actions from missing weight, to post fight complaining. Its embarrassing.

I don't believe that missing weight (for the first time) is some destardly deed that obligates the guilty fighter to behave differently than they normally would. You can apologize to management and the opposing fighter, and of course pay the fine and then it's over. You must put the episode behind you and do your best to be in the same exact mindset as you normally would. If you don't do this, then what is the point of even competing?

I honestly don't get your logic. If Calderwood feels that Calvillo is trying to gain a mental edge by pushing her arm down at the faceoff, she is supposed to allow that, as part of her repentance? And as the decision is about to be rendered, she is obligated to stay mum as Calvillo declares she'd "better not get robbed"?

 

[eon001]

I'm done with Jojo. Predictable striking. Slow starter. No ground game. I think she won, but I'm kinda glad she didn't win. Might force her to improve.

 

[aerius]

I think it is time MMA judges starting scoring blocked head kicks to some extent, sure very few of JoJo's kicks landed cleanly, but it still hurts to be kicked in the forearm.

All those kicks seem to be completely disregarded as offense even though failed submissions attempts are scored highly.

If fighters can head kick like Cro Cop where opponents get rocked backwards or have their arms broken when they block the kicks then sure, we can score them. But weak kicks that barely move the blocking arm and have no effect on the head or upper body? Nope. You might as well give some points to Hendricks for putting his head in Robbie's crotch if you're gonna score blocked kicks that have no effect.

 

[knock_you_out]

At least Calvillo was running/moving quickly. JoJo looked like she was stuck in second gear.

 

[Sjb1888]

If fighters can head kick like Cro Cop where opponents get rocked backwards or have their arms broken when they block the kicks then sure, we can score them. But weak kicks that barely move the blocking arm and have no effect on the head or upper body? Nope. You might as well give some points to Hendricks for putting his head in Robbie's crotch if you're gonna score blocked kicks that have no effect.

Why?

What's the difference from a scoring point of view than landing a leg kick, they both inflict damage.

I'm not saying they should be scored like head kicks, just that they should be scored.

 

[aerius]

Why?

What's the difference from a scoring point of view than landing a leg kick, they both inflict damage.

I'm not saying they should be scored like head kicks, just that they should be scored.

Because damage matters. Tip tap shit like this shouldn't score since it does nothing.



Kicks that knock the opponents backwards or break their balance & posture are the ones that should be scored, for example, this.

 

[CPH]

No. One can cut off the cage if one knows what one is doing. Jo Jo likes to move forward, but she tends to follow her opponents around the cage rather than cut off the cage.

You talk like it was Calderwood's goal to 'catch' Calvillo - as in cornering her and engaging in prolonged exchanges.

She actually cuts the cage much better than most and had no trouble keeping up with Calvillo at any point in this fight. What she wanted here though, was to keep her at kicking range, pick away at her until she got frustrated and made a mistake.

It's not the fight she likes and not the fight we wanted but it is unfortunately the classic strat employed by strikers fighting dangerous grapplers. The result is always the same: lots of hesitation on both sides, strikes falling short, few strikes landing. Look at Maia's fights against Silva, Masvidal. Even Hendo vs Palhares.

Seems like it's hip to shit on Calderwood ATM and any pretext will do. I can see the mistakes she made but some of this stuff is just random IMO.

 

[Torrid]

Shit fight that could have gone either way.

Calvillo came close finishing with like 40 seconds of grappling though; something neither of them did with the striking. I like seeing Calderwood lose though because I only ever hear her whine, bitch and make excuses.

 

[Sjb1888]

Because damage matters. Tip tap shit like this shouldn't score since it does nothing.



Kicks that knock the opponents backwards or break their balance & posture are the ones that should be scored, for example, this.

You seem to be missing my point, of course damage matters, what i'm saying is soft leg kicks are scored all the time, and that there's no reason kicking someones leg should necessarily be scored any higher than kicking someones arms, which is what is happening when headkicks are blocked.

For Calvillo to have got the nod in this fight I think JoJo's multiple arm kicks must have been completely ignored.

 

[knock_you_out]

The way I see it, is that every strike or submission attempt that has fight-ending potential, score much more than those that do not. Calvillo's two submissions attempts were much closer to ending the fight than anything Calderwood landed. Strikes thrown but blocked don't count but may be considered as aggression or octagon control, everything else being equal.

 

[aerius]

You talk like it was Calderwood's goal to 'catch' Calvillo - as in cornering her and engaging in prolonged exchanges.

She actually cuts the cage much better than most and had no trouble keeping up with Calvillo at any point in this fight. What she wanted here though, was to keep her at kicking range, pick away at her until she got frustrated and made a mistake.

It's not the fight she likes and not the fight we wanted but it is unfortunately the classic strat employed by strikers fighting dangerous grapplers. The result is always the same: lots of hesitation on both sides, strikes falling short, few strikes landing. Look at Maia's fights against Silva, Masvidal. Even Hendo vs Palhares.

Seems like it's hip to shit on Calderwood ATM and any pretext will do. I can see the mistakes she made but some of this stuff is just random IMO.

There comes a point where fighting not to lose becomes fighting to lose and unfortunately far too many strikers fall into that trap. Rather than imposing their striking game and making their opponents hesitant in attempting takedowns, they become overly cautious and stop using their best weapons & tactics which then makes it easy for the grappler to play his game.

A striker needs to put the fear of being punched in the face into their opponents, for instance, Joanna Jedrzejczyk is equally vicious with her striking whether she's facing a striker or grappler. She's not going to go to a jab & teep from the outside strategy when she's facing a grappler, she continues using her full range of strikes & setups to beat up her opponents, and by the 2nd or 3rd round the fights are either over or getting very one sided in her favour.

 

[Xuh]

Look at the reasons Calderwood fans are reduced to using to claim she won the fight:

'Calderwood's blocked strikes should have won her the fight because they hurt her opponents arms a little!'

'Having a fully sunk in RNC at the end of the round when the bell rings should not count for anything with the judges because it causes no damage, unlike a push kick!'

 

[CPH]

There comes a point where fighting not to lose becomes fighting to lose and unfortunately far too many strikers fall into that trap. Rather than imposing their striking game and making their opponents hesitant in attempting takedowns, they become overly cautious and stop using their best weapons & tactics which then makes it easy for the grappler to play his game.

A striker needs to put the fear of being punched in the face into their opponents, for instance, Joanna Jedrzejczyk is equally vicious with her striking whether she's facing a striker or grappler. She's not going to go to a jab & teep from the outside strategy when she's facing a grappler, she continues using her full range of strikes & setups to beat up her opponents, and by the 2nd or 3rd round the fights are either over or getting very one sided in her favour.

Everything you say is true. Jojo is coming off an embarrassing loss though, and her third one by way of submission. She wanted to be safe ...and yeah: it backfired.

 

[aerius]

You seem to be missing my point, of course damage matters, what i'm saying is soft leg kicks are scored all the time, and that there's no reason kicking someones leg should necessarily be scored any higher than kicking someones arms, which is what is happening when headkicks are blocked.

For Calvillo to have got the nod in this fight I think JoJo's multiple arm kicks must have been completely ignored.

And I'd agree that soft leg kicks that don't buckle the leg, upset the stance, or do anything visible to the opponent should be scored a lot lower. At the same time, those blocked head kicks from Calderwood weren't exactly Cro Cop head kicks, they barely moved Calvillo's arms when she blocked them. It's not like when Samkor was kicking into that poor Japanese guy's arms and knocking him halfway across the ring.

 

[CPH]

'Having a fully sunk in RNC at the end of the round when the bell rings should not count for anything with the judges because it caused no damage, unlike a punch to the face, (or a blocking arm, for that matter) which actually hurts (even if only a little)!'

Nice strawman.

No one said it "shouldn't count for anything". Just that a failed submission (because not finishing befor the bell IS a failed submission) plus 30 sec of back control should not win Calvillo that round. I did not see the striking being that close.

 

[leto1776]

At the end of the day, who had the really shitty attitude in that exchange? The one who was talking about potentially getting robbed in a close, boring fight, or the fighter who objected to the other acting like a snot?

 

[Sauce Castillo]

The fight sucked. It could've gone either way though so neither fighter can complain

 

[Dart Feld]

There comes a point where fighting not to lose becomes fighting to lose and unfortunately far too many strikers fall into that trap. Rather than imposing their striking game and making their opponents hesitant in attempting takedowns, they become overly cautious and stop using their best weapons & tactics which then makes it easy for the grappler to play his game.

A striker needs to put the fear of being punched in the face into their opponents, for instance, Joanna Jedrzejczyk is equally vicious with her striking whether she's facing a striker or grappler. She's not going to go to a jab & teep from the outside strategy when she's facing a grappler, she continues using her full range of strikes & setups to beat up her opponents, and by the 2nd or 3rd round the fights are either over or getting very one sided in her favour.

Whittaker put on 2 great displays of committing to strikes while facing the 2 best grapplers/wrestlers in his division this year. Even with the more conservative nature of the Romero fight, his push kicks were damaging and actually thrown to set up his offense rather than merely probing.

Having a focus on neutralizing your opponent's style only is a tricky game to play in this kind of stylistic matchup(esp. when strike total is low), it always leaves an opening for a grappler to swing rounds. In this case, the TDs were actually substantiated with significant proceeding grappling exchanges rather than LnP. Overall I think the fight was close but I believe JoJo left the door open for her not getting the nod by having so much of her volume being on strikes that were only thrown to attempt to maintain distance. If she had mixed in more elbows(which Calvillo was open for on the end of her combinations) and attacked the lead leg more then it might've been less of a window for Cynthia to edge it.

 

[Xuh]

Nice strawman.

No one said it "shouldn't count for anything". Just that a failed submission (because not finishing befor the bell IS a failed submission) plus 30 sec of back control should not win Calvillo that round. I did not see the striking being that close.

You did say that near finished subs should not count as high as knockdowns, though ('Unless near finished subs count as high as KDs...'), apparently unaware of how absurd that sounds in an MMA context (perhaps having a sunk RNC or armbar at the bell should only count as much as throwing a punch, given Calderwood didn't even score a KD in either of those rounds!).
Since you're obviously extremely biased towards striking, can safely ignore your opinion on this, nothing more to discuss here, moving on...

 

[Sjb1888]

And I'd agree that soft leg kicks that don't buckle the leg, upset the stance, or do anything visible to the opponent should be scored a lot lower. At the same time, those blocked head kicks from Calderwood weren't exactly Cro Cop head kicks, they barely moved Calvillo's arms when she blocked them. It's not like when Samkor was kicking into that poor Japanese guy's arms and knocking him halfway across the ring.

Yeah I agree, but when you compare it with Calvillo doing next to nothing for most of the fight, it should have been enough for her to get a couple of rounds in my opinion.