Bisping: Georges St-Pierre "looks like he’s been impregnated by an alien.”

[listrahtes]

I was just answering the question asked: what else (besides HGH/insulin) can cause distended stomach. And while some clearly can't apply to GSP (pregnancy for instance, unless the aliens who abducted him have some pretty weird science), some of the others are as likely as HGH/insulin, for which there is basically no medical research which shows they produce distended stomachs - and even top level body builders are debating that link (opinions have changed dramatically the last few years on that - read up on the reactions to Schwartzenegger's comment about big bellied body builders).

Its somewhat amusing to read people rightly skeptical about medical research (the body is very complex), but who believe unproven bro-science (HGH etc). I'd suggest being equally skeptical about both, its much higher percentage.

And actually, there have been top level professional athletes who've played with some very serious illnesses (various cancers including Hodgkin's disease, multiple sclerosis, various heart problems, parasites, diverticulitis right off the top of my head - and it appears Serena Williams has played pro-tennis while pregnant).

Top level athletes aren't automatically healthy in terms of illness. Its actually pretty interesting to read up on it, and some of it is quite surprising. You can be fit and a world class athlete while being ill. Read up on Lou Gehrig for a very interesting example.

I know there is not enough evidence. We are at stage "believe" but you can either believe in evidence based hypothesis as close to "truth" as it gets or pure speculation (aka Religion). The extended ripped (important) stomachs/bellies did not start before HGH was abused in enormous doses by Dorian Yates and others. Sure there are other theories but the calory intake imo does not work because bodybuilders even in late 70s took close to 10 000/day. With insulin there "IMO" (i wont search all the studies now) enough evidence to support the growth of visceral fat especially in the belly region.
It fits to all we know about biochemical processes and how the whole insulin complex works. Its researched into detail because of diabetes.

I am open to other explanations but we should not make the mistake and take serious health conditions into consideration with highly suspicious athletes. Its gotten to the point that there are next to no bodybuilders at pro level without a gut. f that is not suspicious and can be linked to doping I dont know. And these athletes are very a very interesting peer group as we know most of them take this stuff in high doses. Like I wrote before my thesis is that the gut is only developed if you abuse in high dosages.
I.

Arnie looks so much better than todays bodybuilders

 

[TrainAllDay]

Yes, and they even allow threads on men fucking other men for money. Sad state of affairs really.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

I know there is not enough evidence. We are at stage "believe" but you can either believe in evidence based hypothesis as close to "truth" as it gets or pure speculation (aka Religion). The extended ripped (important) stomachs/bellies did not start before HGH was abused in enormous doses by Dorian Yates and others. Sure there are other theories but the calory intake imo does not work because bodybuilders even in late 70s took close to 10 000/day. With insulin there "IMO" (i wont search all the studies now) enough evidence to support the growth of visceral fat especially in the belly region.
It fits to all we know about biochemical processes and how the whole insulin complex works. Its researched into detail because of diabetes.

I am open to other explanations but we should not make the mistake and take serious health conditions into consideration with highly suspicious athletes. Its gotten to the point that there are next to no bodybuilders at pro level without a gut. f that is not suspicious and can be linked to doping I dont know. And these athletes are very a very interesting peer group as we know most of them take this stuff in high doses. Like I wrote before my thesis is that the gut is only developed if you abuse in high dosages.
I.

Arnie looks so much better than todays bodybuilders

I mainly agree, but there are some points I think are debatable. For instance, you can examples of distended (ripped) stomaches in pictures of old time strongmen (from a period decades before synthetic steroid were developed). Many body builders (including those who freely admit to using HGH) say the change from Yates time is due to the change in judging criteria rather than HGH; eating and training methods changed at that point, because the goal is to win. The theory goes that if the criteria goes back to what it was in Schwartzenegger's time (ie distended stomachs are counted against their score) then the builds will quickly follow; that is, judging criteria drives the bellies, not HGH. The analogy would be to the kind of techniques used in gymnastics - there was from the sixties on a marked increase in spinal problems, especially after retirement, in female gymnasts. The reason has always been understood (ie certain techniques which look impressive but are damaging), but it continued because it became impossible to compete at high levels without using those techniques. Note that this damage also coincides with increases in steroid use among gymnasts (especially in the old Soviet block) for recovery, but does that suggest the steroid use was causing those spinal conditions? As you are aware, as Hume said, correlation does not imply causation.

You are definitely correct in pointing out there is evidence that insulin is a factor in visceral fat, but it is only one of many factors (and probably less important than genetics and diet). That is, an individuals own insulin sensitivity probably plays a larger role than injections. For instance, in the general population (ie non-body builders or athletes) most people with significant visceral fat but low subcutaneous fat aren't on insulin. You see this fairly often with individuals who will admit to having a big belly, but will happily point out that its rock hard - typically a combination of a poor diet, hard physical work (with significant resistance but low cardio elements), and genetics (and of course dangerous because it is visceral fat rather than subcutaneous).

And its dangerous not to take serious health conditions into consideration with athletes - quite a few athletes have either died or run into severe medical conditions because they assumed that as professional athletes they were automatically healthy. In fact, professional sports teams now put a lot of effort into checking their athletes health, and even in terms of amateur drafts will not take otherwise highly rated prospects if they don't like what they see.

One last point; the definition of highly suspect athletes tends to be circular; its usually defined as someone with a certain condition (in this case distended stomach) which is assumed to be a sign of some abuse (here HGH/insulin) that causes the condition. But this is assuming the condition can only be caused that that abuse, and that is circular reasoning unless there is medical research linking and limiting that condition to the abuse.

 

[Martinezzz]

I dont like Bisbing but damn that was funny