Belfort justifies TRT usage

[Orni]

Who knows what these guys ratio is when they are not getting tested though, i mean during training camps, they don't get tested randomly without warning right?

 

[Peacemaker45]

If your balls don't produce enough juice to fight its time to quit fighting.

Natures way of saying "move on to something else son!"

 

[SocraticMethod]

If that's their solution and it works, then that's great. It's brutally unfair to target someone who got popped almost a decade ago, but that's their call and probably better than doing nothing.

I think you think I'm arguing in favor of TRT, when all I'm arguing for is for people to stop bashing a fighter for utilizing legal performance enhancers. I'm simply stating that if there's a legal avenue, fighters would be stupid NOT to take it.

I see what you're saying, and I don't think we disagree much, actually. I was really just saying that I understand the argument some are making differentiating Vitor versus another fighter. I'm not saying I agree with it.

I'm not a doctor or a TRT expert by any stretch of the imagination.

Have you seen Bigger, Stronger, Faster? There's a part in it where the filmmaker goes to his chiropractor to get a prescription for testosterone just to show how easy it is. There's one line to the affect of "The doctor says I can have test because my levels are low, but there's no actual set number for what's low or high or normal." And while he's doing this, the doctor is like, "Yeah, see you're pretty low so we want to bring your levels up to optimal."

I saw that before the TRT issue really hit in MMA with the first Sonnen test. So that was always in the back of my mind: is it really that easy to get a doctor to say you need it? And if it is, why wouldn't all these guys be doing that?

 

[Over and out**]

My question was.. How do you know that is the determining factor as to why he needs TRT now. Could that contribute, sure. Is it possible that just like any other older man his testosterone levels are just dropping... Yes.

Busted once means he was doing for long periods of time?

Plus he was a kid. Hopefully you don't still get shit for the things you did as a kid..

19 year old is a kid now? its not like he was given steroids at 3 years old where he wouldnt know any better. pretty sure 19 year olds can make decisions for themselves.

 

[OmegaRugal]

What ways is there around it without getting caught?

The issue people have is that you can take more than enough TRT to give you abnormally high levels of Testosterone during training camp then lower it right before a test.

By testing more often ... you can see if they abuse it or not.

If their levels show up as nothing more than "normal" ... than I personally don't see an issue.

I think the real issue is that some people can't look at TRT without looking at Roids.

They don't see the benefit of TRT ... they just look at it as a Roids users miracle drug.

 

[BrandDC]

puffing on a doobie leads to mainlining hay-ron!

Drinking protein shakes won't make you need TRT when you hit 40.

 

[west42]

Are we talking TRT or Roids here?

My fault, that didn't make sense. Look up nutrient partitioning. Consider how much muscle mass you added going through puberty, now compare that to what drinking a shake and some creatine would do in relation to building muscle. Look up studies which tested muscle gain in people-roiding and lifting/lifting/roids and no lifting. The subjects who don't even lift but were getting test exceed the natural subjects who lift. Test. compared to protein or creatine is like comparing an energy drink to crystal meth. Test is the single biggest factor in determining how much muscle one's body maintains/builds. Protein and creatine have nothing to do with signaling your body to increase muscle mass.
On a side note, there's huge market for TRT/low t syndrome/etc where I live. Walk into any gym, and 80% of the dudes you see and go,"Holy shit, that guy is huge!" are well into the 40's at least. THe young guys, barely any are like that.

 

[OmegaRugal]

My fault, that didn't make sense. Look up nutrient partitioning. Consider how much muscle mass you added going through puberty, now compare that to what drinking a shake and some creatine would do in relation to building muscle. Look up studies which tested muscle gain in people-roiding and lifting/lifting/roids and no lifting. The subjects who don't even lift but were getting test exceed the natural subjects who lift. Test. compared to protein or creatine is like comparing an energy drink to crystal meth. Test is the single biggest factor in determining how much muscle one's body maintains/builds. Protein and creatine have nothing to do with signaling your body to increase muscle mass.
On a side note, there's huge market for TRT/low t syndrome/etc where I live. Walk into any gym, and 80% of the dudes you see and go,"Holy shit, that guy is huge!" are well into the 40's at least. THe young guys, barely any are like that.

I'm still a little confused ... you keep mentioning people roiding.

All I am comparing is TRT to Creatine ... not roids.

Outside of a doctors note ... there seems to me at least ... no real difference. They are both performance enhancers. One can be taken at any time ... the other with a doctors note as you age.

Whether they are taking it because of prior roid abuse is another issue.

If they were caught using Roids and Roids is illegal period ... my suggestion would be a lifetime ban and a fine for the money they made while on it. That would be the only way to stop people from "cheating".

Legal use of TRT is not "cheating". It is available to anyone with low T levels.
Just like taking creatine powders to boost your creatine levels.

 

[Davelh]

Trane, this is extremely old fashioned thinking. 50 years ago, the average life expectancy was 50 or 60, now its 80. 50 years from now it will be 120. Why should a 40 year old feel like a 40 year old. Instead of classifying people by age, why not just say, keep at peak performance for as long as possible. That is what science is all about. To improve upon what already exists.

One could easily make the same argument about protein powders, creatine and other various supplements. These things were made to improve upon what had existed in the past. Cars get faster and more reliable. computers get faster and more powerful. that's how the world works my friend.

As we speak, we have near 50 yr olds winning world boxing championships(bernard hopkins) in the future, we are going to see 50 years olds and 60 year olds. Nothing ever stays the same. things always improve. That is the way it has been since the dawn of time. To deny this is simply not logical. Both heavy champions, the Klitchkos are both near 40 or older.

Wow I guess I've got another 90 years to live...

The average life expectancy of a male in the US has gone up by about 12 yrs from 66 to 78 in the last 50 yrs. There is a zero percent chance that our life expectancy will increase at a rate to get to 120 in the next 50 yrs.
Even though you are seeing some athletes compete at older than normal ages, this is nowhere near a majority and your average career length for an athlete hasn't gone up much at all. Bhop is an exeption and the Klitchko's are heavyweights and we've seen that before with Foreman.
We are not going to see multiple 50-60 yr old champs in the next 50 yrs as you are claiming. Our biology hasn't changed that much. Science has but we haven't and this is the main point that you're missing

 

[TheShockmaster]

Vitor, it's not very hard....but you wouldn't want to say that it's because you put needes in to your ass for the majority of your career would you?

 

[DrFIGHT]

A couple of things seems to be missed in this discussion:

The testosterone to epitestosterone ratio does not measure the actually testosterone level, only the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone.

Which means:
High testosterone and normal epitestosterone will give high T:E ratio
High testosterone and high epitestosterone will give normal T:E ratio
Low testosterone and normal epitestosterone will give high T:E ratio
Low testosterone and low epitestosterone will give normal T:E ratio

So there can be several reasons for a high level, just like a normal level doesn't mean that you do not have elevated testosterone. The relatively arbitrary set level of T:E ratio of 6:1 is apparently based on a study that showed that about 1 in 100 males have a natural level above 5.25:1, although the average is 1:1.

This means that if you are on TRT you basically can give yourself a T:E ratio that puts you above the top 1% of the population....

Also, the urine test doesn't check if you have taken any synthetic steroids / testosterone or epitestosterone. It is therefore fully possible if you have at least a semi smart doctor to either cycle properly so that your T:E ratio will be normal come fight night, or to take synthetic epitestosterone as a masking agent so that your T:E ratio will be normal

In conclusion, the current drug testing makes it very easy to artificially elevate your testosterone levels, both legally via TRT and illegally due to the rudimentary drug testing in the UFC.
This won't change unless drug testing becomes more akin to Olympic drug testing.

 

[KickFromHell]

Sonnen lost because he was against Anderson and Jones...

But Vitor, could you please answer why do you have low testosterone levels so you need TRT? I think you know the answer yourself too.

 

[wellz6]

Vitor has always been my favorite fighter. And I admit I'm not happy about his TRT usage. His need for TRT is more than likely due to his past steroid abuse. Now with that being said, he obviously cannot change the past or his past decisions to take steroids, so he has two choices: Use TRT or retire. Personally, I don't want to see him retire just yet. And I also have no issue with the UFC testing him throughout his camp as often as they feel necessary. So as long as his test results are not showing elevated levels, I'll just sit back and enjoy his fights.

 

[NosLliWhsoj]

TRT is a doctor prescribed treatment that raises your testosterone level back to normal levels.

There is nothing wrong with having normal levels of testosterone.

If you need something to RAISE your levels of a hormone, it obviously is NOT your "NORMAL" level.

Do you mean "Average"? And by that, you mean "average" test levels of the best fighters in the world?

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Sonnen lost because he was against Anderson and Jones...

yes, steroids don't turn someone into an undefeatable monster. suggesting it is straw man.

it does give the user a huge edge they didn't have before. and when competition is so tight - when parity is a razor's edge - it can make all the difference in the world.

on a spectrum, if i am a 2, Silva is a 99, and Nate Marquart is an 80, pre-Sonnen might be a 78 and post-Sonnen might be an 83, Sonnen suddenly becomes the #1 contender. but no one is suggesting TRT turned him into the Incredible Hulk; only a bit better than he was.

here is a good article that explains how 5 ball players came into the pro's with roughly the same skill levels; 1 cheated and got a ring with the Yankees; 4 didn't and never got out of AA. no, the cheater didn't become Felix Hernandez. he simply got from AA to the bigs. and made millions doing so.

an edge in a very competitive sport with a lot of parity. an edge. that's it. and that little edge often enough to go from top 20 to top 3.

 

[Deleted member 409801]

I'm still a little confused ... you keep mentioning people roiding.

All I am comparing is TRT to Creatine ... not roids.

Outside of a doctors note ... there seems to me at least ... no real difference. They are both performance enhancers. One can be taken at any time ... the other with a doctors note as you age.

Whether they are taking it because of prior roid abuse is another issue.

If they were caught using Roids and Roids is illegal period ... my suggestion would be a lifetime ban and a fine for the money they made while on it. That would be the only way to stop people from "cheating".

Legal use of TRT is not "cheating". It is available to anyone with low T levels.
Just like taking creatine powders to boost your creatine levels.

are you questioning whether they are morally the same or if the benefits provided physiologically are the same?

Morally, since it is currently legal to take trt I guess it's similar.

Physiologically.....not even fucking close!

TRT is legalized cheating in my opinion. Too short to play basketball? Do something else. Too slow to be a running back? Do something else. Too old to hold up to MMA training? Do something else

 

[SocraticMethod]

I'm still a little confused ... you keep mentioning people roiding.

All I am comparing is TRT to Creatine ... not roids.

Outside of a doctors note ... there seems to me at least ... no real difference. They are both performance enhancers. One can be taken at any time ... the other with a doctors note as you age.

Whether they are taking it because of prior roid abuse is another issue.

If they were caught using Roids and Roids is illegal period ... my suggestion would be a lifetime ban and a fine for the money they made while on it. That would be the only way to stop people from "cheating".

Legal use of TRT is not "cheating". It is available to anyone with low T levels.
Just like taking creatine powders to boost your creatine levels.

Because testosterone is a steroid.

http://www.e-steroid.com/steroid-profiles/testosterone.html

Testosterone, although naturally produced in the body, is synthetically produced by Schering, Organon and Ciba in 1930s. It was the first artificially produced anabolic steroid, thus became the basis or reference drug of all succeeding steroids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone

Testosterone is a steroid hormone from the androgen group and is found in mammals, reptiles,[1] birds,[2] and other vertebrates.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/vm12.htm

Testosterone is a 19-carbon steroid hormone produced primarily by the Leydig cells of the testes (in men) and the ovaries (in women).

 

[DrFIGHT]

I hate to break this to you, but you have been severely mislead as to the so called negative aspects of steroids. Stop listening to main stream media and start going on some real bodybuilding websites and listen to some real experts regarding steroids. Millions of people take steroids, yet, where are all the dead bodies? I have known guys that have been taking steroids for decades and are as healthy as they come.

The media loves to talk about the so called negative aspects of steroids. Ever see Sly Stallone for example? this guys is like 65 years old and is jacked as hell and healthy as hell. you don't think this guy does steroids and has been doing steroids for decades? Of course he has. With a few additional natural supplements, any negative aspects of steroids can be remedied.

I don't need to go into all the bodybuilders from the 70s that did tons of steroids, yet are alive and healthy to this day.

You do know that many of these guys, including Arnold, have needed coronary bypass surgery due to the negative impact the steroids can have on your lipid profile. Steroids are associated with a higher risk of myocardial infarction (heart attack) so although they do have some health benefits, they are not without side-effects

 

[SlomiGa]

Ok, whoever believes he really NEEDS TRT is a fckn idiot.
Vitor is a liar, a cheater and I hope Rockhold knocks him out.

You are obviously mentally challenged to the point where I can't imagine you wiping your own ass.

TRT is a perfectly legitimate treatment.

 

[ZappBrannigan]

"I think they should release everyone who's on it, because that would bring more legitimacy to the sport"

HUH? So they should release him then?