Belfort justifies TRT usage

[trane]

I don't care one way or the other. I'm not "singling" Vitor out, the thread is about Vitor. These guys can do whatever they want, just don't lie and pretend like they NEED it as if it's insulin. It's obviously to enhance athletic performance so they should say that instead of treating everyone like we're children. Since steroids lower t and he did them and thus has lower t, anything that additionally lowered it doesn't matter.

Who's lying, I've been against TRT from the beginning

I'm just saying you're making accusations that cannot be proven, there are guys years younger then him that are on it, I can't say that he has lower levels because of steroid abuse, I don't know

 

[kpt018]

yes, steroids don't turn someone into an undefeatable monster. suggesting it is straw man.

it does give the user a huge edge they didn't have before. and when competition is so tight - when parity is a razor's edge - it can make all the difference in the world.

on a spectrum, if i am a 2, Silva is a 99, and Nate Marquart is an 80, pre-Sonnen might be a 78 and post-Sonnen might be an 83, Sonnen suddenly becomes the #1 contender. but no one is suggesting TRT turned him into the Incredible Hulk; only a bit better than he was.

here is a good article that explains how 5 ball players came into the pro's with roughly the same skill levels; 1 cheated and got a ring with the Yankees; 4 didn't and never got out of AA. no, the cheater didn't become Felix Hernandez. he simply got from AA to the bigs. and made millions doing so.

an edge in a very competitive sport with a lot of parity. an edge. that's it. and that little edge often enough to go from top 20 to top 3.

Good points. A small seemingly small advantage can make a huge difference at the highest level of competition. Not just mma, all sports.

 

[tappedtostrikes**]

The only difference between TRT users and steroid cheaters is a doctor's note.

 

[...El Ray]

As I see Wand in your AV, before I say this, let me be clear I am a HUGE WAND fan.

But isn't it funny how many people accused/accuse him of PEDs in Pride, yet he doesn't take TRT now?

What's their response? I am curious.

1. Anyone thinks PRIDE stars weren't on PEDs is a bit naive.
2. Who says he isn't using now? (current PED testing is a joke)
3. You don't automatically lose the ability to produce test when you take PEDs, it just greatly increases the chances.


Huge Wand fan, btw.

 

[zbelt]

Lol this guy...he sounds so guilty...

 

[CanadianBJJ101]

Being caught in his career it's hard giving him the benefit of the doubt

 

[dropshot001]

Ok, whoever believes he really NEEDS TRT is a fckn idiot.
Vitor is a liar, a cheater and I hope Rockhold knocks him out.

You cannot prove he doesn't need it. The doctors have medical evidence that he needs it and he is being open with the ufc about it. Don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[...El Ray]

Who's lying, I've been against TRT from the beginning

I'm just saying you're making accusations that cannot be proven, there are guys years younger then him that are on it, I can't say that he has lower levels because of steroid abuse, I don't know

Used PEDs in the past.. fought in a PED friendly org. for years.. now on TRT..


NO CORRELATION?




Oh yeah, we're not "doctors", so we can't make the obvious statement..

 

[SocraticMethod]

A couple of things seems to be missed in this discussion:

The testosterone to epitestosterone ratio does not measure the actually testosterone level, only the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone.

Which means:
High testosterone and normal epitestosterone will give high T:E ratio
High testosterone and high epitestosterone will give normal T:E ratio
Low testosterone and normal epitestosterone will give high T:E ratio
Low testosterone and low epitestosterone will give normal T:E ratio

So there can be several reasons for a high level, just like a normal level doesn't mean that you do not have elevated testosterone. The relatively arbitrary set level of T:E ratio of 6:1 is apparently based on a study that showed that about 1 in 100 males have a natural level above 5.25:1, although the average is 1:1.

This means that if you are on TRT you basically can give yourself a T:E ratio that puts you above the top 1% of the population....

Also, the urine test doesn't check if you have taken any synthetic steroids / testosterone or epitestosterone. It is therefore fully possible if you have at least a semi smart doctor to either cycle properly so that your T:E ratio will be normal come fight night, or to take synthetic epitestosterone as a masking agent so that your T:E ratio will be normal

In conclusion, the current drug testing makes it very easy to artificially elevate your testosterone levels, both legally via TRT and illegally due to the rudimentary drug testing in the UFC.
This won't change unless drug testing becomes more akin to Olympic drug testing.

Are you talking about someone on TRT who doesn't disclose it and get a TUE? Because if you have a TUE, you are subject to blood testing.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Good points. A small seemingly small advantage can make a huge difference at the highest level of competition. Not just mma, all sports.

thanks. it's shocking to me (well, not really "shocking", more like "it just adds to the overall disappointment of the thinking capacity of the average fan") that people still use the MMA the equivalent of "steroids don't help you hit a curve ball".

yes, they don't help hand-eye coordination. but they help everything else (bat speed, strength, recovery, etc) which allows a guy to go from a .210 batter with 9 HR's and scores of pop-outs to a .310 batter with 30H HR's and dozens of pop-outs. likewise, they don't help a guy's bjj or jab accuracy; they only help every aspect of his physical game which allows a guy to maximize his techniques. and yes, not getting tired as fast DOES help a jab & bjj.

i seriously thought that type of ridiculous thinking about PEDs was put to rest in the 80's. until i interacted with some MMA fans

 

[trane]

Used PEDs in the past.. fought in a PED friendly org. for years.. now on TRT..


NO CORRELATION?




Oh yeah, we're not "doctors", so we can't make the obvious statement..

There are guys years younger then him that use it so like I said it could be a reason but it can't be stated as fact because we don't know

I view all TRT users in the same light I'm not going to single one guy out

 

[Based God]

Think of it like this. I'm a 20 year old dude with no intention of going to UFC, but I'm young and dumb and want to look swole on the beach. So I roid up and ruin my natural production. Then I turn 28 and want to fight seriously but need TRT to function normally and compete normally. Should I be denied my chance b/c of something stupid I did when I was younger?

Yes you should be denied your chance, because nobody is forcing you to become a professional fighter.

If you're 28 years old and can't be an athlete without chemical help you shouldn't be an athlete.

Manny Ramirez and all those other baseball players all broke down and started sucking after they got caught on steroids, they weren't given legal right to TRT by Major League Baseball after their steroid abuse, so why should you or any MMA fighter get that right.

It's basically saying "I was a cheater at one point in my life, pity me now"

 

[Based God]

There are guys years younger then him that use it so like I said it could be a reason but it can't be stated as fact because we don't know

I view all TRT users in the same light I'm not going to single one guy out

Here's one of the guys years younger than Vitor that use it in the UFC. This guy is only 27 years old and "needs" TRT

Nah couldn't have been steroid abuse

Duffee had his TRT exemption as far back as 2010 at age 24 lol no hulking 24 year old has naturally low test, not humanly possible.

 

[Deleted member 409801]

t.r.t doesn't win fights? bull-fucking-shit.

belfort wouldn't be on it if it didn't help him.

since it's legal, he, "legally" isn't doing anything wrong. but you can't hide behind the law to justify actions that are self-evident.

Yeah....that argument is retarded. Jeff Gordon can have all the skill and experience in the world and he isn't winning a race in a freaking go-cart. If testosterone levels didn't mean anything or improve your game, the Rickson Gracie's, Gene Lebels and Randy Coutures of the world would be Dominating in the UFC.

 

[...El Ray]

There are guys years younger then him that use it so like I said it could be a reason but it can't be stated as fact because we don't know

I view all TRT users in the same light I'm not going to single one guy out

Yeah, young guys need it because their body never produced enough test in the first place.

A 36 year old muscular athlete who has been caught for PEDs in the past doesn't have naturally low T..

 

[trane]

Here's one of the guys years younger than Vitor that use it in the UFC. This guy is only 27 years old and "needs" TRT

Nah couldn't have been steroid abuse

Duffee had his TRT exemption as far back as 2010 at age 24 lol no hulking 24 year old has naturally low test, not humanly possible.

Exactly so why try to single out one person, as like I said many others can be accused of the same

I see the guys against TRT and then I see the guys with agenda trying to single people out, I view TRT users in the same light, from Dan Henderson to Todd Duffe, it's all the same to me, same advantages, same shit being put into their bodies. But people want to try to pick and choose targets, that's unfair in my opinion

 

[...El Ray]

Hmm, I wonder if people are singling out Belfort in this thread because it's a thread about Belfort??? HMMMMMMMMM.....

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Yeah, young guys need it because their body never produced enough test in the first place.

A 36 year old muscular athlete who has been caught for PEDs in the past doesn't have naturally low T..

again:
http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2011/...one-replacement-therapy-is-too-ripe-for-abuse

The bottom line is that TRT was developed and intended for the medically necessary treatment of a small subset of young boys who need this hormone to develop normally and have a shot at a more normal life – and not, amazingly, healthy young men who want a shot at the title.

do you think Chael & Hendo got to the highest levels of international amateur wrestling being born with naturally low T?

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Hmm, I wonder if people are singling out Belfort in this thread because it's a thread about Belfort??? HMMMMMMMMM.....

i agree. fans shouldn't be singling out Vitor. the issue is bigger than him.

 

[rlm81]

Loss 14