Abel Sanchez on African American Fighters

TownBiz said:
so, how do you categorise the black style?...according to your previous post, there' such a thing. how is it different from the white style?
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Ask Abel, he is the boxing expert. I've never hear of white style before. I've heard of Mexican, Cuban, Eastern European, but not white. He might see Phillyshell and similar styles as black style, for whatever reason. Of course, he has a sharper eye for style, he is an expert, so he will see things the average person won't. He can see patterns which mostly black people exhibit, and categorise it as such. Or maybe his categorisation is based on genealogy or whatever.

I've been boxing for a decade and I can see differences in styles and I'm certain I can categorise. But I'm sure Abel can see it in a more nuanced way and fine grained way. And the most important thing is that categorisation is not a rigid and fixed thing like classification. The borders between categories are fuzzy and overlapping.
 
Boxer said:
Can I just ask what has Trump got to do with anything said?

"makes abel look like the biggest trump supporter in the world."

That's got to be the most stupid thing I've read today.

Anyway if I'm going to be very "general" and make a stereotypical comment from my own experience I would say that African American fighters tend to have a "Not get hit, safety first" style, again "in general" they don't seem to like to get hit compared to Mexican, Russian or white fighters and so tend to do a lot of hit and move (height and weight permitting).

However ...........

That is not an insult its actually smart fighting, the whole point of boxing is to hit and not be hit.

Now I know you said "there isn't an African American style" but if you look at the 30's - 60's and look at the way white guys fought ....... sloppy, undisciplined, always willing to brawl except for the exceptions like Willie Pep, African Americans since have had a huge impact with their more slick way of boxing.

African Americans dominated that era because in a sense they took advantage of the typical white American boxer who would just follow them around the ring taking 4 shots to every 1 given.

Jack Johnson, Muhammed Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson, Ezzard Charles, Walcott etc

In fact that was why Marciano was so revered because he was the one white (well Italian american who they adopted) guy who didn't get beat, all the rest pretty much did.

Fast forward to today and I think again "being stereo typical" I think it still rings true in the main even though its evened out i.e more white guys now can be technical and smart to.

But again your not likely to see a white Roy Jones Jr, Ray Leonard, Errol Spence or Floyd Mayweather as you are to see a black Murat Gassiev, GGG or Gatti.

Again its evened out a lot more now but I kind of get what Abel is un-articulately trying to say.

Maybe in a nutshell he's trying to say a lot less African Americans are willing to brawl it out and he thinks that's what people want to see which is kinda incorrect in itself but whatever .............
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well, i used the term "trump supporter" as a pejorative because donald trump is a racist, ignorant, misogynistic, anti-human rights buffoon...so, to be a "trump supporter" you actually have to be a bigger racist, misogyonistic, anti-human rights buffoon...and a fkin a-hole to boot. Hope that helps.

Secondly, you're clearly a trump supporter...how did i arrive at this conclusion? its based on your post which i actually read.

For example, you listed 4 guys who exemplified the "black style" in ali, srr, joe walcott and ezzard charles...now, i can certainly see the similarities between ali, srr and charles...but walcott? i think not...but if you do a random sample of black fighters, let's say the last 10 recognized african american heavyweight champs...wilder, holyfield, tyson, norton, holmes, spinks foreman, frazier, ali and liston. So, two out of the ten, ali and holmes have a similar style...that's 20%. on the other hand, tyson, frazier, liston, spinks and foreman have styles that would be considered somewhat similiar...you might even count holyfield in that bunch....so, that's 50-60%...with norton and wilder having styles that don't fall into either of the first two categories..

wouldn't that mean the typical african american fighter fights more like tyson and less like ali?....i mean, i understand stereotypes exist for reasons...usually not GOOD reasons...but i'm just asking.
 
The Can Opener said:
That's all he ever does. He pretends to actually want to discuss something but it's just poorly disguised trolling that gets worse and worse as the thread goes on. By the end everyone is calling him out for being a complete troll then he stops replying and starts all over again with a new thread a few days later.

He ALWAYS attacks specific fighters and trainers.

He ALWAYS reverts to the same bullshit tactics and arguments.

He ALWAYS exposes himself in the end when he gives up on pretending to be a decent logical human and goes full on trolltard shit stirring biased lying pile of crap. He's like the english speaking version of Uncle Termite mixed with some Queen B without the thick skin.
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translation...you're a ggg dikkrider who can't deal with the facts when they're presented to you...go fk yourself.
 
quincy k said:
lmfao anyone thinking lara legit challenging golovkin

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2015/11/erislandy-lara-moving-to-160-targeting-golovkin/

you dont go around spounting off talking about moving up in weight and fighting a guy who was koing everyone at mw only to end up fighting zaveck, gausha, vanes and yuri foreman.

nobody believed erislandry lara but a very few floyd mayweather-loving, manny pacquioa/gennady golovkin-hating retards

just the same as only a retard can claim a guy is ducking another fighter who is fighting one or two weight divisions above him
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this is the thing i don't get about ggg dikkriders...i can't even call y'all stupid anymore....it's so far beyond that...it's to the point now where it's like y'all are some kind of blind cult-followers repeating total and complete inanities...

dude, it was ggg who issued the challenge....ggg said he would fight anybody from 154 to 160.....it wasn't lara who said that....those were ggg's words. so, when lara challenged ggg at 154 why didn't ggg accept the challenge? are you saying ggg didn't really mean ANYBODY from 154- 168...he actually meant A SELECT FEW from those weight classes? in that case ggg shoulda said "i'll fight CERTAIN guys from 154 to 168"...and there would be no problem when he turned down challenges from ward and lara.

I mean, what is lara supposed to do? give up his title and chase a guy in a higher weight class who don't want anything to do with him when it was THAT GUY to begin with who issued the challenge? How could you be expected to CHASE a guy who challenged YOU?...makes NO sense. As your link showed, lara was even willing to move up to 160!...but ggg had no interest in the fight....i wonder why...

lara will most likely move up to 160 when he's ready...and when he does, he'll have a good shot to beat ggg at 160. Lara already beat canelo and canelo drew with ggg...sure, styles make fights, but lara would be a good bet to hand ggg an L if and when ggg decides to accept the challenge.
 
I just came to the realization fellas...i must apologize....i now understand what all the folks talking about the "african american style" are talking about...what they really mean, which i didn't quite understand before was that the MOST FAMOUS african american fighters in history (ali and fmj) fought a certain way...so, because those particular posters are not familiar with any other african american fighters it was totally understandable that their train of thought goes something like "if ali and fmj are african americans, and they both fight in a defensive posture, it must mean that all african americans fight in a defensive posture, ergo the defensive posture is the "african american" style"...now, i completely understand why abel sanchez and a buncha dudes on this forum were so fervent about the "african american style"....clearly they were using a certain level of analysis and insight not often seen in boxing.
 
TownBiz said:
translation...you're a ggg dikkrider who can't deal with the facts when they're presented to you...go fk yourself.
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I said literally nothing about ANY fighter at all but whenever someone points out who the Town troll is they must be a fan of the fighter who apparently hurt you as a child somehow or a trump fan which honestly makes no sense at all.

Pathetic as always.

Everyone sees you for the complete troll you are. Calling everyone here either "Trump supporters" of "GGG dickriders" is about the stupiest thing I've ever seen. People who are fans of all kinds of fighters and all kinds of politics agree that you're a piece of shit. You bring everyone together which is probably the only purpose you'll ever serve before you are finally banned.
 
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I think he just means slick/defensive.

I use Tevin Farmer, Robert Easter, Adrien Broner, etc.


Last Saturday was Mexican (Ramirez) style vs African American (Imam) Style
 
Queen B said:
I think he just means slick/defensive.

I use Tevin Farmer, Robert Easter, Adrien Broner, etc.


Last Saturday was Mexican (Ramirez) style vs African American (Imam) Style
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yeah, that mike tyson was a real slickster.
 
TownBiz said:
this is the thing i don't get about ggg dikkriders...i can't even call y'all stupid anymore....it's so far beyond that...it's to the point now where it's like y'all are some kind of blind cult-followers repeating total and complete inanities...

dude, it was ggg who issued the challenge....ggg said he would fight anybody from 154 to 160.....it wasn't lara who said that....those were ggg's words. so, when lara challenged ggg at 154 why didn't ggg accept the challenge? are you saying ggg didn't really mean ANYBODY from 154- 168...he actually meant A SELECT FEW from those weight classes? in that case ggg shoulda said "i'll fight CERTAIN guys from 154 to 168"...and there would be no problem when he turned down challenges from ward and lara.

I mean, what is lara supposed to do? give up his title and chase a guy in a higher weight class who don't want anything to do with him when it was THAT GUY to begin with who issued the challenge? How could you be expected to CHASE a guy who challenged YOU?...makes NO sense. As your link showed, lara was even willing to move up to 160!...but ggg had no interest in the fight....i wonder why...

lara will most likely move up to 160 when he's ready...and when he does, he'll have a good shot to beat ggg at 160. Lara already beat canelo and canelo drew with ggg...sure, styles make fights, but lara would be a good bet to hand ggg an L if and when ggg decides to accept the challenge.
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Look at your first paragraph and whenever you write GGG, just put [Fighter's Name] instead. The reality is that everyone that is a fan is going to fit the criticisms you outlined. Those observations aren't unique to any particular fighter, or that fighter's fans.

Now, whether or not they run around riding "dikk," is something else altogether. What kind of fans are you running with, anyway? Is this a normal fan experience for you? Cuz if that's your thing when your a fan of someone, then you're more than a fan, you're a groupie.
 
Well I’m only one person, but I can confidently say I’m pleased with the fighting style of many many black fighters. So his assessment certainly isn’t true for this fan. In my universe, he’s an idiot.
 
TownBiz said:
well, i used the term "trump supporter" as a pejorative because donald trump is a racist, ignorant, misogynistic, anti-human rights buffoon...so, to be a "trump supporter" you actually have to be a bigger racist, misogyonistic, anti-human rights buffoon...and a fkin a-hole to boot. Hope that helps.

Secondly, you're clearly a trump supporter...how did i arrive at this conclusion? its based on your post which i actually read.

For example, you listed 4 guys who exemplified the "black style" in ali, srr, joe walcott and ezzard charles...now, i can certainly see the similarities between ali, srr and charles...but walcott? i think not...but if you do a random sample of black fighters, let's say the last 10 recognized african american heavyweight champs...wilder, holyfield, tyson, norton, holmes, spinks foreman, frazier, ali and liston. So, two out of the ten, ali and holmes have a similar style...that's 20%. on the other hand, tyson, frazier, liston, spinks and foreman have styles that would be considered somewhat similiar...you might even count holyfield in that bunch....so, that's 50-60%...with norton and wilder having styles that don't fall into either of the first two categories..

wouldn't that mean the typical african american fighter fights more like tyson and less like ali?....i mean, i understand stereotypes exist for reasons...usually not GOOD reasons...but i'm just asking.
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Dude put your tampon back in.

You really need to brush up on your "conclusions" then because I'm A) not a Trump supporter, B) I'm British not American although that doesn't automatically exclude me from being a Trump supporter it certainly doesn't help and C) I'm half white / half Middle Eastern so yeah ......... Trump is "clearly" not my flavour of the month.

Now back to the boxing .......

Yes I know what your saying, I could make a list of African Americans who don't "hit and move" Hagler, Earnie Shavers, Fraizer, Rubin Carter etc ...........

There is obviously a cross over in approach due to height and weight alone, an African American who's heavy set is not going to be on his toes the whole night.
Oscar Delahoya certainly didn't fight the "Mexican way" and Joe Calzage was as good at hit and move as any African American.

But you have to admit when you do the ratio there was practically no white fighters back in the 50's who ever fought like a Sugar Ray, they mainly lumbered forward caveman style just dukeing it out.
Mexican fighters have that reputation but they don't all fight the "Mexican way".

Hence why I use the term "stereotyping" I don't see how you can even argue (unless your going to e argumentative for the sake of it) that before the black pioneers of the 50's 60's no other fighters ever really fought that way in numbers any more than a handful in fact if I'm so off the line .......... name me 10 white fighters before the 60's that were on their toes using hit and move tactics.

I'll wait, you can also apologise for your off base assumption of my voting habits and political preference please.
 
black folks often say "he fights like a slick brotha" in regards to agile, fleet footed guys that typically avoid getting into a brawl.
 
Noraaq said:
black folks often say "he fights like a slick brotha" in regards to agile, fleet footed guys that typically avoid getting into a brawl.
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I have a feeling "brotha" is not the most commonly used term, another word probably is. At least where I'm from. Then I go yeah I'm not allowed to use that word but he is slick.
 
What a load of nonsense. He should go and tell Deontay Wilder that to his face and see whats up
 
People make stupid comments all the time even the elected president.

But that's no excuse for blatant racism and not using facts, like iff Floyds style was so displeasing then why can he generate the highest PPV and demand and get 200 million dollar paydays? why because he's a master offensive fighter and a master defensive fighter that makes the science of boxing look easy and nobody pays for a boxing match for a 100 dollars to see a all time great unbeaten boxer, destroy a non professional boxer with no armature experience, for 100 dollars and almost brake the record, if they were boring and didn't like his style whatsoever, also nobody forks out a 100 dollars for a boring fighter just to see him maybe lose if some MMA fighter gets lucky , they pay because he's a master of the sweet science of boxing and they are baffled he's that talented and they actually enjoy the hell out of his style and defensive abilities and that's a fact.
 
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