A bloody end to a multicultural fairy-tale: Balkan wars

[Rod1]

@bad mojo

Ill take your word on the muslim thing since they did the same thing in Syria, but if Serbs were so innocent why did you guys also fought against Croats?

 

[Rod1]

That's my point. The different cultures are the problem. The races all vote differently from the founding values. Limited gov't. Free speech. The 2A, etc. No other majority demographic except Caucasians supports these things. .

Black people used to vote Republican when Republicans actually cared about these values. Also FDR expanded the government like crazy and he was wildly popular among the white majority.

Minorities dont vote Republican because Republicans have used identity politics in order to push their unpopular agenda.

Not to mention that "small government" is not something any of the current parties support.

 

[Greoric]

Black people used to vote Republican when Republicans actually cared about these values. Also FDR expanded the government like crazy and he was wildly popular among the white majority.

Minorities dont vote Republican because Republicans have used identity politics in order to push their unpopular agenda.

Not to mention that "small government" is not something any of the current parties support.

All fine and great. As it is, different genetic populations have different ideas about what they want their society to look like, and currently when it looks like the white majority is looking to be over taken, the only majority demographic that wants the founding values secured are.... shocker. Whites!

Other populations are just different with different values. That's just a flat reality of the universe. I've actually arrived at this position tragically by the way. I wish it wasn't the case, but two data points (one being anecdotal) pushed me over the edge. One was when I realized the demographic make up of the libertarian conventions (most all white), and when I saw the voting patterns broken down by race. That was the threshold. We do not belong under the same set of laws or the same governance.

 

[TheGreatA]

@bad mojo

Ill take your word on the muslim thing since they did the same thing in Syria, but if Serbs were so innocent why did you guys also fought against Croats?

I think a part of that was old grudges carrying over from WW2 times.

Croats administered a genocide of sorts on the Serbs, with the help of Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Serbs_in_the_Independent_State_of_Croatia

There was not much love between the two groups, when Yugoslavia collapsed. It was payback time on all sides. It's a miracle they were ever held together, "Tito's" regime being the glue.

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

All fine and great. As it is, different genetic populations have different ideas about what they want their society to look like, and currently when it looks like the white majority is looking to be over taken, the only majority demographic that wants the founding values secured are.... shocker. Whites!

Other populations are just different with different values. That's just a flat reality of the universe. I've actually arrived at this position tragically by the way. I wish it wasn't the case, but two data points (one being anecdotal) pushed me over the edge. One was when I realized the demographic make up of the libertarian conventions (most all white), and when I saw the voting patterns broken down by race. That was the threshold. We do not belong under the same set of laws or the same governance.

Why do you think these differences are genetic and not cultural?

 

[AlexDB9]

I saw that the golden retriever from Denmark tried to derail the thread, but an interesting conversation is being had here, posting to bookmark

 

[Greoric]

Why do you think these differences are genetic and not cultural?

Because different races have different genetic profiles, and genetics are antecedent to the cultures they predispose.

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

Because different races have different genetic profiles, and genetics are antecedent to the cultures they predispose.

Lol does that not strike you as a little unspecific?

What proportion of genetic difference produces a minority subpopulation that needs to be governed differently?

 

[Greoric]

Lol does that not strike you as a little unspecific?

What proportion of genetic difference produces a minority subpopulation that needs to be governed differently?

I'm not sure I understand your question, but likely self identification in a racial group. That matches up 99% with best fit genetic clusters. But out of an interest in not derailing this thread, you can PM me with your questions about biology and evolutionary psychology, and I would be glad to educate you. Have a great night.

 

[Bald1]

I think a part of that was old grudges carrying over from WW2 times.

Croats administered a genocide of sorts on the Serbs, with the help of Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Serbs_in_the_Independent_State_of_Croatia

There was not much love between the two groups, when Yugoslavia collapsed. It was payback time on all sides. It's a miracle they were ever held together, "Tito's" regime being the glue.

Well, that and Croatia was always a bit different than its eastern neighbours. A personal union with Hungary that spanned over 500 years followed by ~150 years in the Austrian, Austria-Hungary empires kinda set them apart from the rest of the Yugos. As in, for almost 700 years they were economically and politically closer to their non-slavic neighbours than their relatives. (Don't tell anyone I said they were related, ok?)

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

I'm not sure I understand your question, but likely self identification in a racial group. That matches up 99% with best fit genetic clusters. But out of an interest in not derailing this thread, you can PM me with your questions about biology and evolutionary psychology, and I would be glad to educate you. Have a great night.

I do think this is probably best suited for another thread, but I also think that if you took that last claim of yours ("we do not belong under the same governance") and evaluated it as you would vet a claim in a field you actually know well, you'd be better able to recognize how flabbergasting it is.

Another time.

 

[TheGreatA]

Well, that and Croatia was always a bit different than its eastern neighbours. A personal union with Hungary that spanned over 500 years followed by ~150 years in the Austrian, Austria-Hungary empires kinda set them apart from the rest of the Yugos. As in, for almost 700 years they were economically and politically closer to their non-slavic neighbours than their relatives. (Don't tell anyone I said they were related, ok?)

It is, in truth, a thousand year conflict that rekindled during the breakdown of Yugoslavia.

I haven't looked into the specifics of which party was responsible in the 90's (the Serbs probably did hold the most power, though), but in any case, this conflict is something that has gone on forever.

We should appreciate the fact that even with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people dead over the years, there does not seem to be any current sentiment amongst Croatians or Serbians, to start another fight.

Both people having their own land, it seems, has helped build a path towards peaceful co-existence.

 

[Prutfis]

Contrary to what reputable sources like CNN and BBC told you, Mladić was an old-school communist general. He knew that entering Srebrenica would be disaster. But since many of Serbian officers had their families massacred while they were preparing for Christmas by the guys coming out from "military free" zone, he decided to take the city. Srebrenica was completely surrounded by Serbian forces the entire duration of war, he could have taken it anytime.

When Serbs entered Srebrenica, the plan was to kill everyone. Mladić was held at the gun point by his officers, believe it or not. He managed to get the women and children out of there with the help of UN forces.

 

[bad mojo]

@bad mojo

Ill take your word on the muslim thing since they did the same thing in Syria, but if Serbs were so innocent why did you guys also fought against Croats?

During the WW2, Croats and muslims in Bosnia sided with nazis, while Serbs fought along allies. Some truly horrific stuff happened in Croatia and Bosnia, it is estimated that more 1,5 Serbs were killed by their neighbors. Basically, both Croats and muslims used the WW2 in order to create their own independent states. The trouble was that Serbs were around 35% population of today's Croatia and around 70% of Bosnia, and they had to be eliminated. What they failed then, they managed to do in 90s.

While it was more business thing for Croats, despite numerous death camps and atrocities, Bosnian muslims are ethnic Serbs whose forefathers accepted islam in order to survive Turkish medieval invasion. While the rest of my people suffered under islamic occupation but refusing to submit, they enjoyed the benefits of their treason.
Once the Turks were gone, native Serbs could not accept their brothers who turned to islam as "real Serbs", and even to this day, there is deep scorn in Serbian people towards those who submitted to the oppressors. At the same time, Bosnian muslims know their families histories, and I guess it's hard living with the knowing what your grandfathers have done. It's deep and will never end.

I saw that the golden retriever from Denmark tried to derail the thread, but an interesting conversation is being had here, posting to bookmark

Absolutely, I appreciate everyone who took an interest in this thread. I was hesitant to start it (didn't want it to turn into "who did what"), but nothing but pure class by Sherbros so far.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

So TS, what’s a good book a westerner can read about this stuff? Jihadi groups from this area and Chechnya have always peaked my interest.

 

[bad mojo]

So TS, what’s a good book a westerner can read about this stuff? Jihadi groups from this area and Chechnya have always peaked my interest.

Books written by Tim Judah, "Kosovo: war and revenge" are maybe most worthy of reading concerning Balkan conflicts, he tried to paint the most objective picture, as far as I know. Unfortunately most of the books written follow the official media storyline. If you want to know more about jihadists involvement in Balkans, google "el mujaheed Bosnia", and go from there. Not too many videos with English subtitles, unfortunately. Serbs completely failed at media war department, and it can be seen when you look at what's available for someone who wants to know more about the area.

 

[Ruprecht]

Calling Yugolsavia a "mini-eu" is laughable. Switzerland would be closer.
It's funny to hear a Serb talk about crime soaring and blaming Muslim immigration though, given my experience with Serb refugees here in Australia.

 

[tonni]

Arkan's tigers were just lashing out in self defense!

 

[bad mojo]

Calling Yugolsavia a "mini-eu" is laughable. Switzerland would be closer.
It's funny to hear a Serb talk about crime soaring and blaming Muslim immigration though, given my experience with Serb refugees here in Australia.

Again, I'm not trying to present one-sided story here. There are Serbs all across Europe, also. Are some of them criminals? Of course they are. But you don't see stories of Serbian grooming gangs, Serbs chopping people's heads off or people plotting terrorist acts in Orthodox church gatherings. Everyone is free to form their own opinion. Western Europeans can surely make good judgement whether their countries were safer before massive middle-eastern immigration. Serbs were already there for decades, so they can compare.

 

[bad mojo]

Arkan's tigers were just lashing out in self defense!

If Arkan was an American, you would see a dozen of Hollywood movies about the guy. And yes, The Tigers were bad as hell. Even the regular Serbian forces in Bosnia and Croatia feared them.