A bloody end to a multicultural fairy-tale: Balkan wars

[bad mojo]

Shala tribe , yes .
My family didnt leave Prishtina during the war and our first neighbors were Serbians(The main women in that family talked Albanian fluently) and even during war my family had a great relationship with them , They helped us in several occasions during the war with however they could and the main women of that family even cried alongside my family members when the nephews of my grandmother (sons of her sister) were massacred. We also helped her and her family for as long as they stayed in Prishtina post war (A short time) . There was another Serbian family in my apartment but we didnt have agood relationship with them and neither did the other Serbian family (our first neighbor) who would hangout with Albanians(us) more than that other Serbian family.

Fucking hell. That's Balkans for you, folks. I hope the only argument between the two of us happens if Rakić and Latifi ever step in the cage together. Until then, stay safe Sherbro.

 

[A.S. Deep]

This thread reminds me a lot of the Indian-Pakistan split of 1947, where a million people died due to essentially a civil war. My grandparents lived in Pakistan but were Sikh, so they had to risk the deadly journey to India to survive. Looking back though (and even my elder relatives agree), it was high-level stupidity from both sides. Neighbors who'd lived with each and had been friends with each other for decades became enemies and killed each other.

Ethnic hatred is such a great example of majoring in the minors. Guys (for example) of all religions and ethnicites typically want money, status, sex, a great love life, a loving family, meaningful work, hobbies they enjoy, having fun with friends, etc. How they dress, the color of their skin, which language they speak, which god they believe in, and which holidays they celebrate are all minor stuff.

 

[Caudillo]

This thread reminds me a lot of the Indian-Pakistan split of 1947, where a million people died due to essentially a civil war. My grandparents lived in Pakistan but were Sikh, so they had to risk the deadly journey to India to survive. Looking back though (and even my elder relatives agree), it was high-level stupidity from both sides. Neighbors who'd lived with each and had been friends with each other for decades became enemies and killed each other.

Ethnic hatred is such a great example of majoring in the minors. Guys (for example) of all religions and ethnicites typically want money, status, sex, a great love life, a loving family, meaningful work, hobbies they enjoy, having fun with friends, etc. How they dress, the color of their skin, which language they speak, which god they believe in, and which holidays they celebrate are all minor stuff.

Not so true. Religions with supremeacy in them want the elimination of the outside groups and domination. This also existed in pagan times.

 

[A.S. Deep]

Not so true. Religions with supremeacy in them want the elimination of the outside groups and domination. This also existed in pagan times.

From a simple root cause analysis, it's not so much the religion that's the issue but tribalism. People have always wanted to eliminate the "other", whether that be other religions, races, ideologies, etc. (especially when the "Other" is a minority group because they're an easier target). Once again, majoring in the minors. Majority X wants to eliminate minority Y because that minority believes in a different god (even though both the majority and minority are similar in all the big ways I listed).

 

[Caudillo]

From a simple root cause analysis, it's not so much the religion that's the issue but tribalism. People have always wanted to eliminate the "other", whether that be other religions, races, ideologies, etc. (especially when the "Other" is a minority group because they're an easier target). Once again, majoring in the minors. Majority X wants to eliminate minority Y because that minority believes in a different god (even though both the majority and minority are similar in all the big ways I listed).

From an evolutionary perspective. Racial and subracial tribalism is the most logical. And is what aninals do. Hence taxonomy. Ethnic groups are either pure subraces that label themselves as different or are mixed subraces and or racial groups or are separated by language.

But again 2 middle eastern religions and 1 eastern one had major ethno/subracialist components to it. And racial realism. And yes conquest. And the ascendancy of its followers to the top.

 

[A.S. Deep]

From an evolutionary perspective. Racial and subracial tribalism is the most logical. And is what aninals do. Hence taxonomy. Ethnic groups are either pure subraces that label themselves as different or are mixed subraces and or racial groups or are separated by language.

But again 2 middle eastern religions and 1 eastern one had major ethno/subracialist components to it. And racial realism. And yes conquest. And the ascendancy of its followers to the top.

Can you explain what you mean by racial realism?

 

[Caudillo]

Can you explain what you mean by racial realism?

Just send me message private.

Fucking hell. That's Balkans for you, folks. I hope the only argument between the two of us happens if Rakić and Latifi ever step in the cage together. Until then, stay safe Sherbro.

Just open your borders man. What can go wrong

 

[Caudillo]

One of my closest friends is a refugee from Bosnia. He lived in an eastern part of capital city, Sarajevo. When the war broke out, his family was trapped in an apartment building mostly populated by muslim families. They switched their place with a muslim family that lived across the street. After a couple of days, everyone involved had reached an agreement and they took out the carpets from apartments and hanged them to form some kind of wall between the buildings. It served as a cover for protection from snipers, and the deal was made that whoever chose to walk through the corridor of carpets would be left alone. They would go outside early in the morning in search for a food or anything else. At the same time, both Serb and muslim soldiers were occupying the buildings, so you never really knew if your parent or family member would get killed if some hot head decided to break the agreement. My friend's family managed to get him and his sister out of there and to Serbia after two months of living on a frontline.
In other places, you had to test your luck every time you went out. Not only could you get shot, but civil war in urban areas brings a ton of confusion. You can't carry your documents, everyone you meet looks the same, and you never know who's the guy walking towards you with an AK-47, a friend or foe. Insanity.

What are your thoughts on Tito?

It was completely the opposite. Why do you think there were so many Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia? Because those two countries never existed prior to ww2. After the war, foreign powers drew the borders of Yugoslavian republics, leaving millions of Serbs living outside Serbia. Simply put, Serbia with appropriate borders would've been too big to be allowed to exist.

And US is probably the greatest nation in the world, built on truly fantastic principles. But the difference is, US started from point zero, while many other regions in the world carry some real messed up history with them. Balkan being the one of them.

US is not great in history or why it exists. It was founded as a white ethnostate. Which is fine. But china has a much richer history. But yeah the US power on a global scale is unique. Interesting how they are weakening themselves though.

 

[bad mojo]

US is not great in history or why it exists. It was founded as a white ethnostate. Which is fine. But china has a much richer history. But yeah the US power on a global scale is unique. Interesting how they are weakening themselves though.

I admire the US constitution, and the liberty that is given to an individual. I'm far from an expert, but I'm not aware of a similar document anywhere in the world. China is of course an ancient empire, fascinating people. While I detest some of things US have done, my own country included, I'm able to separate its people from foreign policies. Some of the most honest, hard working people I've met in my life were average, middle class Americans. Hope they manage to keep their country as was intended.

 

[ferrari]

Can you explain what you mean by racial realism?

Just send me message private.


Just open your borders man. What can go wrong

The guy believes that people should identify by their skin color rather than by nation lol
This just shows you how big of a moron this guy is lol

 

[panamaican]

US is not great in history or why it exists. It was founded as a white ethnostate.

Sorry but that's not true.

 

[Caudillo]

Sorry but that's not true.

I wonder if after looking at the below you will argue against this just to act like you are right. Attack my spelling or argue semantics maybe.

All in good fun man. Cheers

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

A mere 14 year after US is offically founded. Hmmmm

Citizenship to all white europeans. Excludes africans, native americans and non europeans. That immigration act went unchallenged for the next 100 years and then you got this new act in 1924. Which was still race based. It took till 1924 to also give native americans citizenship and the 1950s to stop race based nationalization discrimination and 1965 the current immigration act.

"""Major changes to the definition of citizenship were ratified in the nineteenth century following the American Civil War. The Fourteenth Amendment in 1868 granted citizenship to people born within the United States and subject to its jurisdiction; but it excluded untaxed “Indians” (Native Americans living on reservations). The Naturalization Act of 1870 extended "the naturalization laws" to "aliens of African nativity and to persons of African descent." In 1898 the Supreme Court decision in United States v. Wong Kim Ark granted citizenship to an American-born child of Chinese parents who had a permanent domicile and residence in the United States, and who were there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China."""


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924

Lol look at the below commenrs and attempts to spin US racial history and wanting to keep all political and voting power in white hands. And exta lol at the alleged black guy commenting say the country was intended for all free people across the planet. Despite some counting as 3/5 a person and being in slavery.


https://www.quora.com/The-alt-right...te-people-alone-How-true-is-this-or-is-it-not

 

[panamaican]

I wonder if after looking at the below you will argue against this just to act like you are right. Attack my spelling or argue semantics maybe.

All in good fun man. Cheers

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

No need. I'm simply going to point out the difference between naturalization and birthright citizenship. The Naturalization Act applied to citizenship for non-citizens seeking to become citizens. Birthright citizenship was unaddressed.

Now, you could point to Dred Scott 60+ years later but that interpretation didn't last more than a handful of years.

 

[Caudillo]

No need. I'm simply going to point out the difference between naturalization and birthright citizenship. The Naturalization Act applied to citizenship for non-citizens seeking to become citizens. Birthright citizenship was unaddressed.

Now, you could point to Dred Scott 60+ years later but that interpretation didn't last more than a handful of years.

What about slavery? Non voting ability of non whites. Segregation. Everything about the society was for white domination. The idea that they (racist slave owning founders) wanted equality for all is a lie.

Birthright citizenship unadressed but look at who they allowed in only. The 1924 act tigtened immigration and eased it for some parts of the world.

 

[Caudillo]

I think a part of that was old grudges carrying over from WW2 times.

Croats administered a genocide of sorts on the Serbs, with the help of Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Serbs_in_the_Independent_State_of_Croatia

There was not much love between the two groups, when Yugoslavia collapsed. It was payback time on all sides. It's a miracle they were ever held together, "Tito's" regime being the glue.

Yugoslavia was great under Tito

 

[Caudillo]

During the WW2, Croats and muslims in Bosnia sided with nazis, while Serbs fought along allies. Some truly horrific stuff happened in Croatia and Bosnia, it is estimated that more 1,5 Serbs were killed by their neighbors. Basically, both Croats and muslims used the WW2 in order to create their own independent states. The trouble was that Serbs were around 35% population of today's Croatia and around 70% of Bosnia, and they had to be eliminated. What they failed then, they managed to do in 90s.

While it was more business thing for Croats, despite numerous death camps and atrocities, Bosnian muslims are ethnic Serbs whose forefathers accepted islam in order to survive Turkish medieval invasion. While the rest of my people suffered under islamic occupation but refusing to submit, they enjoyed the benefits of their treason.
Once the Turks were gone, native Serbs could not accept their brothers who turned to islam as "real Serbs", and even to this day, there is deep scorn in Serbian people towards those who submitted to the oppressors. At the same time, Bosnian muslims know their families histories, and I guess it's hard living with the knowing what your grandfathers have done. It's deep and will never end.



Absolutely, I appreciate everyone who took an interest in this thread. I was hesitant to start it (didn't want it to turn into "who did what"), but nothing but pure class by Sherbros so far.

I dont blame them for taking Islam. It is a more dominant religion, tribal and powerful and more of one of practice and usually stronger community than even orthodox christianity. Issue is i am not so sure serbs who converted did it out of sencirity at first.

 

[Konster]

For the first time today I heard that a few Serbs came to Artsakh (Karabakh) to fight for Armenians. I want to know if this is true because I know the Artsakh Liberation War pretty well and this is the first time I’m hearing of it.

 

[Mastoness]

Yugoslavia was great under Tito

Yugoslavia was never great, it was an artificial creation, a communist, socialist dump destined for demise, built on the myth of brotherhood and unity. Yes, the life was solid for maybe 10 years, because all of the loans that Yugoslavia took from those evil capitalist countries.

Now, just to clear some facts:

- Croatia didn't sided with nazis in WW2. Bear in mind, Croatia was a part of Yugoslavia. Northern parts were occupied by nazi Germany and the southern parts were occupied by fascist Italia. "Independent state of Croatia" was nothing else but the puppet state, installed by the Italians. Ustashe were never a regular croatian army and were formed mainly by the folks from some parts of Lika and Herzegovina. I wan't deny the fact that those sons of whores have killed 300 000 people in Jasenovac camp, among the victims were jews, Serbs, gipsies, communists and even the catholic priests who condamned the fascist regime. Majority of Croats were in partizans, a Yugoslav resistance movement and they fought the Ustashe (ISoC), serbian Chetniks, Germans and Italians. Josip Broz Tito, a leader of the partizan movement was a Croat. Funny thing, serbian chetniks, loyal to the king, sided with nazis and fought together with ustashe against the Yugoslav resistance forces. So, maybe I should claim that Serbia sided with the nazis just like you are doing with the Croats? Of course, serbian sherdoggers didn't mentioned that the capitol city of Serbia, Belgrade, was the first Judenfrei city in Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Serbia

- no we didn't commit a genocide against the Serbs in Croatia during the 90's. They knew about the operation Storm and most of them left for Serbia. There wasn't a single civilian target during the Storm and not a single Serb was forced to move from their homes. There were some crimes against the Serbs in the parts of the former "Krajina state" and unfortunately, those were the older folks who didn't fled with the rest of the Serbs. Many of those assholes who did those crimes were judged and prosecuted by the Croatian courts. Majority of them are serving a prison sentences. There are still investigations that are being led against those who commited those crimes. Every damaged and destroyed serbian house was rebuilt or renewed by the Croatian government and every single one of those houses still belongs to it's rightfull owner. After the end of war, Croatian government invited all of those who fled to return to their houses. Only a part of them returned to their houses. Today, the parts of Croatia where Serbs are in majority are declared as areas of special care. Those people have their national symbols and language in those areas, they have schools where they learn serbian language and about serbian history. They even have their own representative in Croatian parliament.

That would be all from me, feel free to continue with your myths and propaganda.

 

[Orgasmo]

Multiculturalism works relatively okay as long as you don't throw Muslims into the mix.

 

[Caudillo]

For the first time today I heard that a few Serbs came to Artsakh (Karabakh) to fight for Armenians. I want to know if this is true because I know the Artsakh Liberation War pretty well and this is the first time I’m hearing of it.

Really wish Stalin went through with his idea/plan to invade Turkey and annex decent sized portions and that Mountain range to armenia. And give a portion of the north east coast to Georgia. Woodrow wilson agreed to this. Shame it did not happen.

The only way greater Armenia happens at this rate is you ally with a larger power who helps dismantle turkey. Russia is more interested in it seems a dual relationship between Israel and Iran. But i think israel they prefer. Turkey and Russia are temporarily being pushed together. Russian strategists have argued Turkey is better off either secular or partioned. I would prefer to see it partioned.

Azerbaijan can annex a portion of north Iran once Iran is regimed changed by the US.