2nd Amendment: The Militia Issue - A Discussion

[ShinkanPo]

Metal Militia!

 

[Whippy McGee]

The original post is easiest answered with this...

 

[xcvbn]

They're called arms. Nuclear arms. Arms race. Sounds like they're covered under the general heading of "arms". The right thing to do would be to add an Amendment prohibiting indiscriminate weapons of mass destruction. Were there arms at the time of founding that were illegal for citizens in good standing to own? If not...

It's a scary reality, but no legal interpretation of 2A should disallow even the worst weapons. Amend, repeal, whatever you gotta do. Unfortunately we have exactly zero notable politicians who have the balls to call it like it is- they simply refuse to honor their oaths to uphold the Constitution.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Metal Militia!

 

[Dolomite]

^ That one chick, 3rd over from the left, I would just totally destroy.

 

[Teppodama]

We don't want your guns...

Unless you're under the age of 21. Not only don't want them sold to you, but we also don't want you to own them period unless your an Olympian, a member of the US Shooting team, a National Guard member or Military.

Illinois - HB1465 sponsored in the Illinois House and passed with a vote of 64-51 on February 28th. On it's way to the Illinois Senate...

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/bil...GA=100&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=101955&SessionID=91

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ful...=HB&LegID=101955&DocNum=1465&GAID=14&Session= - Full Text

Sec. 24-1.9. Delivery or sale of assault weapons, assault
8 weapon attachments, .50 caliber rifles, and .50 caliber
9 cartridges to persons under 21 years of age prohibited;
10 possession of assault weapons, assault weapon attachments, .50
11 caliber rifles, and .50 caliber cartridges by persons under 21
12 years of age prohibited.
13 (a) Definitions. In this Section:
14 (1) "Assault weapon" means:
15 (A) any rifle which has a belt fed ammunition
16 system or which has a detachable magazine capable of
holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition;
2 (B) a semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to
3 accept a detachable magazine and has any of the
4 following:
5 (i) a folding or telescoping stock; or
6 (ii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially
7 or completely encircles the barrel, and that
8 permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the
9 non-trigger hand without being burned;
10 (C) a semi-automatic pistol that has the ability to
11 accept a detachable magazine and has any of the
12 following:
13 (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
14 (ii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially
15 or completely encircles the barrel, and that
16 permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the
17 non-trigger hand without being burned; or
18 (iii) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or
19 more when the pistol is unloaded;
20 (D) a semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine
21 that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds of
22 ammunition; or
23 (E) a semi-automatic shotgun that has:
24 (i) a folding or telescoping stock; and
25 (ii) contains its ammunition in a revolving
26 cylinder; or




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1 (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5
2 rounds of ammunition, except as may be authorized
3 under the Wildlife Code and excluding magazine
4 extensions during the snow geese conservation
5 order season; or
6 (iv) an ability to accept a detachable
7 magazine of more than 5 rounds of ammunition;
8 (F) a .50 caliber rifle centerfire rifle capable of
9 firing a .50 caliber cartridge, not including any
10 antique firearm, any shotgun including a shotgun that
11 has a rifle barrel, or any muzzle-loader which uses
12 black powder for hunting or historical re-enactments.
13 "Assault weapon" does not include:
14 (A) any firearm that:
15 (i) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever,
16 or slide action;
17 (ii) is an unserviceable firearm or has been
18 made permanently inoperable;
19 (iii) is an antique firearm;
20 (iv) uses rimfire ammunition or cartridges; or
21 (iv) has been excluded as an assault weapon in
22 a Department of Natural Resources rule. The
23 Department of Natural Resources shall have the
24 authority to adopt rules to further define
25 exclusions of assault weapon types under this
26 Section, provided the make, model, and caliber of




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1 the firearm excluded has a viable application to
2 hunting game and conforms to accepted hunting
3 principles of fair chase.
4 (B) any air rifle as defined in Section 24.8-0.1 of
5 this Code.
6 In this Section, a firearm is considered to have the
7 ability to accept a detachable magazine unless the magazine or
8 ammunition feeding device can only be removed through
9 disassembly of the firearm action.
10 (2) "Assault weapon attachment" means any device
11 capable of being attached to a firearm that is specifically
12 designed for making or converting a firearm into any of the
13 firearms listed in paragraph (1) of this subsection (a).
14 (3) "Antique firearm" has the meaning ascribed to it in
15 18 U.S.C. 921 (a)(16).
16 (4) ".50 caliber cartridge" means a cartridge in .50
17 BMG caliber, either by designation or actual measurement,
18 that is capable of being fired from a centerfire rifle, not
19 including any memorabilia or display item that is filled
20 with a permanent inert substance or that is otherwise
21 permanently altered in a manner that prevents ready
22 modification for use as live ammunition or shotgun
23 ammunition with a caliber measurement that is equal to or
24 greater than .50 caliber.
25 (5) "Locking mechanism" means secured by a device or
26 mechanism, other than the firearm safety, designed to




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1 render a firearm temporarily inoperable; or a box or
2 container capable of containing the firearm and that can be
3 securely locked.
4 (b) Except as provided in subsection (d) of this Section,
5 on or after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the
6 100th General Assembly, it is unlawful for any person within
7 this State to knowingly deliver or sell, or cause to be
8 delivered or sold, an assault weapon, assault weapon
9 attachment, .50 caliber rifle, or .50 caliber cartridge to any
10 person under 21 years of age.
11 (c) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (d) of this
12 Section, 90 days after the effective date of this amendatory
13 Act of the 100th General Assembly, it is unlawful for any
14 person under 21 years of age within this State to knowingly
15 possess an assault weapon, assault weapon attachment, .50
16 caliber rifle, or .50 caliber cartridge.
17 (d) This Section does not apply to or affect any of the
18 following:
19 (1) Members of the Armed Services or Reserve Forces of
20 the United States or the Illinois National Guard, while in
21 the performance of their official duties or while traveling
22 to or from their place of duty.
23 (2) Transportation, transfer, or sale of weapons,
24 attachments, or ammunition for sale or transfer in another
25 state.
26 (3) Possession of any firearm if that firearm is




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1 sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee and by
2 USA Shooting, the national governing body for
3 international shooting competition in the United States,
4 but only when the firearm is in the actual possession of an
5 Olympic target shooting competitor or target shooting
6 coach for the purpose of storage, transporting to and from
7 Olympic target shooting practice or events if the firearm
8 is broken down in a non-functioning state, is not
9 immediately accessible, or is unloaded and enclosed in a
10 firearm case, carrying box, shipping box, or other similar
11 portable container designed for the safe transportation of
12 firearms, and when the Olympic target shooting competitor
13 or target shooting coach is engaging in those practices or
14 events.
15 (4) Any non-resident who transports, within 24 hours, a
16 weapon for any lawful purpose from any place where he or
17 she may lawfully possess and carry that weapon to any other
18 place where he or she may lawfully possess and carry that
19 weapon if, during the transportation the weapon is
20 unloaded, and neither the weapon nor any ammunition being
21 transported is readily accessible or is directly
22 accessible from the passenger compartment of the
23 transporting vehicle. Provided that, in the case of a
24 vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's
25 compartment the weapon or ammunition shall be contained in
26 a locked container other than the glove compartment or




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1 console.
2 (5) Possession of a weapon at events taking place at
3 the World Shooting and Recreational Complex at Sparta, only
4 while engaged in the legal use of this weapon, or while
5 traveling to or from this location if the weapon is broken
6 down in a non-functioning state, or is not immediately
7 accessible, or is unloaded and enclosed in a firearm case,
8 carrying box, shipping box, or other similar portable
9 container designed for the safe transportation of
10 firearms.
11 (6) Possession of a weapon only for hunting use
12 expressly permitted under the Wildlife Code, or while
13 traveling to or from a location authorized for this hunting
14 use under the Wildlife Code if the weapon is broken down in
15 a non-functioning state, or is not immediately accessible,
16 or is unloaded and enclosed in a firearm case, carrying
17 box, shipping box, or other similar portable container
18 designed for the safe transportation of firearms.
19 (7) The manufacture, transportation, possession, sale,
20 or rental of blank-firing assault weapons and .50 caliber
21 rifles, or the weapon's respective attachments, to persons
22 authorized or permitted, or both authorized and permitted
23 to acquire and possess these weapons or attachments for the
24 purpose of rental for use solely as props for a motion
25 picture, television, or video production or entertainment
26 event.




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1 (e) Sentence.
2 (1) A person who knowingly delivers, sells, or
3 possesses or causes to be delivered or sold, in violation
4 of this Section an assault weapon commits a Class 3 felony
5 for a first violation and a Class 2 felony for a second or
6 subsequent violation or for the possession or delivery of 2
7 or more of these weapons at the same time.
8 (2) A person who knowingly delivers, sells, or
9 possesses or causes to be delivered or sold, in violation
10 of this Section an assault weapon attachment commits a
11 Class 4 felony for a first violation and a Class 3 felony
12 for a second or subsequent violation.
13 (3) A person who knowingly delivers, sells, or
14 possesses or causes to be delivered or sold, in violation
15 of this Section a .50 caliber rifle commits a Class 3
16 felony for a first violation and a Class 2 felony for a
17 second or subsequent violation or for the possession or
18 delivery of 2 or more of these weapons at the same time.
19 (4) A person who knowingly delivers, sells, or
20 possesses or causes to be delivered or sold, in violation
21 of this Section a .50 caliber cartridge commits a Class A
22 misdemeanor.

23 (720 ILCS 5/24-1.10 new)
24 Sec. 24-1.10. Delivery or sale of large capacity ammunition
25 feeding devices to persons under 21 years of age prohibited.




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1 (a) In this Section:
2 "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means:
3 (1) a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar
4 device that has a capacity of, or that can be readily
5 restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of
6 ammunition; or
7 (2) any combination of parts from which a device
8 described in paragraph (1) of this subsection (a) can be
9 assembled.
10 "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" does not
11 include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and
12 capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition
13 or a tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action
14 firearm or any device that has been made permanently
15 inoperable.
16 (b) Except as provided in subsection (c) of this Section,
17 it is unlawful for any person within this State to knowingly
18 deliver or sell, or cause to be delivered or sold, a large
19 capacity ammunition feeding device to a person under 21 years
20 of age.
21 (b-5) Except as provided in subsection (c) of this Section,
22 it is unlawful for any person under 21 years of age to possess
23 a large capacity ammunition feeding device within this State.
24 (c) This Section does not apply to or affect any of the
25 following:
26 (1) Members of the Armed Services or Reserve Forces of




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1 the United States or the Illinois National Guard, for the
2 performance of their official duties.
3 (2) Sale of large capacity ammunition feeding devices
4 for sale or transfer in another state.
5 (3) Sale or rental of large capacity ammunition feeding
6 devices for blank-firing assault weapons and .50 caliber
7 rifles, to persons authorized or permitted, or both
8 authorized and permitted to acquire these devices for the
9 purpose of rental for use solely as props for a motion
10 picture, television, or video production or entertainment
11 event.
12 (d) Sentence. A person who knowingly delivers, sells,
13 possesses, or causes to be delivered or sold, in violation of
14 this Section a large capacity ammunition feeding device capable
15 of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition commits a Class 3
16 felony for a first violation and a Class 2 felony for a second
17 or subsequent violation or for delivery or possession of 2 or
18 more of these devices at the same time. Any other violation of
19 this Section is a Class A misdemeanor.

20 Section 99. Effective date. This Act takes effect upon
becoming law.".

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that here, on Sherdog, the 2nd Amendment is not going to get 'hashed out'.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

That's LA during the riots

lmao


WoW



@IGIT -BTFO!!

 

[IGIT]

lmao


WoW



@IGIT -BTFO!!

heyo AGGAMEMNON66,

that's not a militia as defined by the Militia Act. its people defending their property during a riot.

if you can name me a modern instance of a militia justly intervening with armed force, i'm all ears. name me a dozen, actually. with the proliferation of these patriots and rampant unrest you all cite, surely they've had numerous opportunities to swing into action.

something along the lines of this militia member, training his rifle on US citizens;

i'll be back in an hour or so, i'll be curious to see your examples.

- IGIT

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

heyo AGGAMEMNON66,

that's not a militia as defined by the Militia Act. its people defending their property during a riot.

if you can name me a modern instance of a militia justly intervening with armed force, i'm all ears. name me a dozen, actually. with the proliferation of these patriots and rampant unrest you all cite, surely they've had numerous opportunities to swing into action.

something along the lines of this militia member, training his rifle on US citizens;

i'll be back in an hour or so, i'll be curious to see your examples.

- IGIT

I was laughing at you dropping the ball in regards to WoW's comment. And you know this.


And I know you have this gimmick to keep up with and all, so I'll let you get back to that.

 

[Tylerl90]

A militia is the whole people, and need not be sanctioned by any form of government. You won't find a single quote arguing otherwise coming from the framers of the Constitution.

The militia consists of United States citizens, as a whole. Period.

 

[IGIT]

heya AGGY!

I was laughing at you dropping the ball in regards to WoW's comment. And you know this.

WoW was responding to a point i never made, though. lol.

i never claimed that the police, the FBI, the marines, etc, act like a personal security detail. that fellow he posted a picture of wasn't a member of any particular militia.

And I know you have this gimmick to keep up with and all, so I'll let you get back to that.

thanks my friend!

i thought i'd get back to the idea of militias. and their supplies that they'll need as they prepare to go to war on the United States Federal government.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

hi there Tyler, great to meet you!

A militia is the whole people,

that sounds great. but vague.

actually, i do not know what that means.

what is a "whole people"?

and need not be sanctioned by any form of government. You won't find a single quote arguing otherwise coming from the framers of the Constitution.

"need not be sanctioned by any form of government"? that sounds like its written somewhere. sounds pretty official, you know?

what form of government are we talking about? i mean - how many forms do we have?

also, i don't see the framers views on militias immutable. i get that they are all GOATs, but their idea of militias in post colonial America has no bearing on 2018. i mean, if George Washington could see this shit;

he'd remove his tooth so he could vomit.

The militia consists of United States citizens, as a whole. Period.

what does this mean, man?

we are all militia

is that what it means?

- IGIT

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

WoW was responding to a point i never made, though. lol.

Has being willfully ignorant always been a part of this gimmick?



Asking for a friend..

 

[IGIT]

hi and good evening Teppodama,

You can keep saying that as much as you want but that doesn't make the statement true and it doesn't deal with the complete reasoning for a militia as outlined in our constitution or why those very reasons will always be valid.

*rolls up his sleeves*

Tep, whether you agree or disagree with the existence of militias, you can't deny that their main aim is to prepare for the day where they'll have to kill Americans.

you can go read their rhetoric - this is a topic that interests you, aye? there's a great deal written about these kind of folks (which increased eightfold when when the Muslim Obama became POTUS).

they aren't here to repel an actual foreign power from invading militarily. apparently there is a group that "guards" the border and they spend most of their time fretting about an invasion.
from the UN.
that's right, lol. they are worried that the UN will mount a land invasion on the US.

so, the militias are getting ready to either kill Americans or defend the continent from an invasion from the United Nations.

How much of what occurred under those regimes would have been able to be accomplished to the degree they were accomplished had they recourse to arms from the outset?

if you want to take the example of the jews and Hitler, the dots won't connect for you, though. Hitler's rise to power was accelerated by weak arms control in the Weimar regime. it was like the wild west, and Adolph's brownshirts were shooting it out in the streets.

Hitler did take the guns, sure - but that was after he was made Chancellor. his rise to power had already been complete.

and the Jews?

if the Jews had some deer rifles and Dinty Moore, would they have fought back?

Tep, they did fight back. with knives, bats, hand grenades and, yes, guns. glorious.

then, 3 battalions of SS and Gestapo showed up, fortified by light armor, artillery and burned the Warsaw ghetto down. 13,000 jews were slaughtered. it was a trouncing of historic proportions. the just bleed crowd would have been on their feet.

One certainly hopes not but we certainly hear a lot of bluster from our politicians and media about how Trump is one questionable decision away from becoming such now don't we? Maybe only non-Democratic Presidents and politicians are capable of becoming such huh? Maybe it's "non-intellectuals" that only succumb to the temptation right? Certainly no modern educated man or woman would right?

i wasn't afraid of a tyrannical government takeover when Mr. Obama was POTUS, and i'm not now that Mr. Trump is. i think Trump's economic policies are becoming increasingly unhinged, but that's about it.

i don't know what to tell you, my friend. maybe i don't have a good imagination.

Doesn't Antifa believe they are fighting fascists? Don't they use that as the justification for the disruption, destruction, violence and intimidation? Maybe they're the civilian militia of the liberal progressives fighting the good fight against repression huh? Granted, they haven't started drawing down on people at their rallies, yet but is beyond comprehension that things couldn't escalate to that point if they truly and fully believe their current tactics simply aren't working? Granted, they'd have to buy guns first...learn to shoot them...

if someone in Antifa has a gun, could something nutty happen?

sure.

i think the folks in Antifa are nuts (i own Exxon Mobil stock, i wouldn't fit in with them), just like i think those fatsos in army/navy gear in the woods are nuts. when nuts have guns, anything can happen.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

Has being willfully ignorant always been a part of this gimmick?

Asking for a friend..

heyo AGGY,

nope, not at all.

i thought we were talking about militias. WoW posted an image from the LA riots of a Korean (i think) smiling on the roof of a building. Koreatown looked like Korea to me, so i thought the image was taken in Asia.

but as i said, i concede the point that the US marines will not be on call to personally protect me if there is a riot - though i never made that point.

it had nothing to do with militias.

- IGIT

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

nope, not at all.

So, it's a recent development then?

 

[IGIT]

So, it's a recent development then?

ahoy AGGY,

i don't know.

maybe!

- IGIT

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

ahoy AGGY,

i don't know.

maybe!

- IGIT

lol


Ok.


Cheers bud!!

 

[Tylerl90]

Pretty much exactly what it means. Anything I said comes from the framers of the Constitution, both federalists and anti-federalists. In the event of government tyranny, we are all responsible for the defense of this nation.

hi there Tyler, great to meet you!



that sounds great. but vague.

actually, i do not know what that means.

what is a "whole people"?



"need not be sanctioned by any form of government"? that sounds like its written somewhere. sounds pretty official, you know?

what form of government are we talking about? i mean - how many forms do we have?

also, i don't see the framers views on militias immutable. i get that they are all GOATs, but their idea of militias in post colonial America has no bearing on 2018. i mean, if George Washington could see this shit;

he'd remove his tooth so he could vomit.



what does this mean, man?

we are all militia

is that what it means?

- IGIT