2nd Amendment: The Militia Issue - A Discussion

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Teppodama, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. BEER

    BEER Resident Feminist Platinum Member

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    I'm a one-man militia and my rights will not be infringed.
     
  2. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

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    Teppodama,

    why do i need those things, though? i pay taxes for the police, the FBI, the dept of Homeland Security, the marines, etc, etc, etc.

    when civil society breaks down, we'll probably need militia-firemen, but i'm not practicing that on weekends either.

    i'm not being snarky.

    my general impression of militias is that they were formed or gained momentum under the Obama presidency with the goal of shooting other Americans. you know, the tree, Jefferson, blood and tyrants, and all that.

    alrighty.

    [​IMG]

    - IGIT
     
  3. WorldofWarcraft

    WorldofWarcraft Holy Paladin Banned

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    Where was the police, the FBI, the dept of Homeland Security

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

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    ahoy WorldofWarcraft, greetings from Elune!

    probably not in that country, i'd reckon?

    - IGIT
     
  5. WorldofWarcraft

    WorldofWarcraft Holy Paladin Banned

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    That's LA during the riots

     
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  6. RerouteToRemain

    RerouteToRemain Silver Belt

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    "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
    — George Mason 1788

    No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    -- Thomas Jefferson


    If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual State. In a single State, if the persons entrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.
    -- Alexander Hamilton

    That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... "
    -- Samuel Adams

    As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
    — Tench Coxe

    "[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
    --James Madison
     
  7. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

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    heya WorldofWarcraft!

    i just glanced at the image. i thought maybe it was Korea.

    is that guy under siege or something? he looks positively mirthful.

    - IGIT
     
  8. WorldofWarcraft

    WorldofWarcraft Holy Paladin Banned

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    police, fbi, homeland security tucked tail and were nowhere to be found when shit hit the fan. Same thing happened during Katrina. Same thing happened during the St. Louis, Fergusson riots.
     
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  9. HomerThompson

    HomerThompson Titanium Belt Platinum Member

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    I'm especially mad that Homeland Security didn't help out during those LA Riots in 1992.
     
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  10. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

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    hi ReroutetoRemain,

    why is what the Founders declared during post-colonial life so important to you? the injuns are conquered. England is not going think it over and try to retake the continent. we have around 800,000 LEOs in the country.

    we're not depending on the Continental army to defend our homeland, we don't need men with sterno, Dinty Moore and deer rifles to protect us. our military force and nuclear arsenal is probably enough to incinerate the planet several times over.

    at any rate, none of the august men you quote pictured this when they scribed their thoughts;

    [​IMG]

    3rd Squad, 4th Platoon, Whale Company

    - IGIT
     
  11. Teppodama

    Teppodama Red Belt

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    In the general theme of protection from purely civilian threats, how often are the police there on time or just prior to the act being committed? What do you do if the very people you are relying on are problem? How many topics are started here alone about corrupt cops whenever someone is shot and it makes the papers?

    Oh undoubtedly we'll need that too, but how many mobs in recent years have destroyed business properties and or assaulted innocent bystanders in their anger? If that's your business or you or a family member will you simply wait patiently for the often underfunded and understaffed police hopefully make it to you or business before you and yours are assaulted or your property destroyed? How long is it gonna take the National Guard to get to you to deal with the problem? How was the national guard utilized in these events these past years? How much damage and violence occurred before they could be a factor in any of them?



    We've had militias of various strengths and capabilities since our founding. Given that Obama and his supporters appeared to want to nibble away at a right provided by our constitution I believe fulfilled at least one component of the potential need for a militia. Fortunately, it didn't become necessary to see just how far everyone was willing to go with that.

    Ok, that's funny.
     
  12. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

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    heyo WorldofWarcraft,

    alright. i get that when a catastrophe strikes, civil functions may break down for a day or a week.

    have you ever heard of the Algiers Point Militia?

    during Katrina, Algiers Point was an officially designated evac zone. what did the Algiers Point Militia do? did they welcome the shell shocked victims with food, water and shelter? or did they patrol their streets with rifles, shoguns and an uzi (lol) and threaten anyone who didn't seem like they belonged there?

    what do you think?

    - IGIT
     
  13. WorldofWarcraft

    WorldofWarcraft Holy Paladin Banned

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    I don't know. I don't care about militias. I can sure as fuck tell you that families, friends and neighbors banded together with their ARs, AKs and whatever guns they had to defend their homes and neighborhoods. Instant militias.
     
  14. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

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    hey Teppodama,

    i'm unclear what any of this has to do with militias. if you're talking about personal protection? sure.

    the only way to really be safe is to have your gun and to keep it drawn, really, at all times and to wear kevlar. this has nothing at all to do with fat men in state parks swathed in the latest army/navy store couture.

    tell me about it, my friend.

    black lives matter rioted down the street i live on, four blocks from my condo and wrecked the bar next to my studio.

    look, when the militia swoops in and saves the day, tell me about it. i am all ears.

    gun rights expanded under President Obama.

    and what are you driving at, anyway?

    are you saying that if congress convenes and two parties bilaterally decide to write into law severe 2nd amendment restrictions because that is what the nation at large demands, that militias are going to shoot LEOs, Federal agents, and elected representatives? and that this would be justified?

    lol.

    - IGIT
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  15. hillelslovak87

    hillelslovak87 Gold Belt

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    Do you interpret the term arms as being open ended? Or do you see logical restraint put upon the definition by extremely intelligent and prudent men?
     
  16. Dolomite

    Dolomite Red Belt

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    What is the point of all this? Do you think you're going to Nicholas Cage some secret undiscovered Catch-22 in the Bill of Rights that will redefine the 2A?

    That some day the justices of the Supreme Court are going to sit around, nodding their heads in approval, as an office intern reads aloud your rambling militia clause diatribe?

    "Holy shit," Ruth Vader-ginsburg will finally say, "How did we miss this? That's it! Mr. & Mrs. America: Turn 'em all in!"
     
  17. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

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    ahoy WorldofWarcraft,

    yep!

    the Algiers Point Militia defended their homes and property in a Federally declared evac zone, telling survivors of the tragedy to get the fuck out of their neighborhoods.

    that's what i meant, my friend.

    the true rationale behind militias is to shoot other Americans.

    - IGIT
     
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  18. Fawlty

    Fawlty Legitimate Vice President of the WR

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    I think we could conduct an experiment here. Let's all go enlist in the Army and insist that we bring our own rifles.
     
  19. Trotsky

    Trotsky Silver Belt

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    He's engaging in his country's legal history and trying to make novel observations for discussion.

    Whether he's going at it with a preconceived agenda or not, engaging at that level at all (even the Wikipedia level) is more than most citizens do. Not sure why anyone would be a dick about someone doing that.
     
  20. Teppodama

    Teppodama Red Belt

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    What would I personally have done? Attempted to help anyone asking for assistance in good faith. Is that actually what a militia is for? No. That is what a local civilian version of support services would be for. The civilian militia defends against bad faith actors, the civilian support service attends to those with legit needs and that aren't a danger to the immediate community.

    When you don't have access to FEMA, Local Law Enforcement, Medical Services, National Guard, etc. An organized community working together intelligently brings together those that can fulfill those necessary roles so law and safety is maintained till official elements of these services arrive.

    Expecting the government to always handle all of your emergency shit and to handle it in your or your communities best interest is incredibly foolish.
     

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