Zookeeper Gabe’s Animal Thread V8.0

[Zookeeper Gabe]

@Zookeeper Gabe are mandrills dangerous or do i just think that because of the teeth and crazy face ?

They certainly can be extremely dangerous and are treated as so at zoos if one escapes.

 

[Gutter Chris]

They certainly can be extremely dangerous and are treated as so at zoos if one escapes.

Now youve made me curious about that

If a dangerous animal gets loose what is the protocol ? Try to empty the park dudes with tranqs and a stand by with a rifle ? I dont know anything about how a zoo runs but Im sure you guys gotta have some kind of back up plan ..... Its one of the reasons I hated Jurassic world it didnt seem likely to me that the park would just go oh shit and let it happen ...... I also didnt think the dactyls would just randomly start attacking everything in sight after years in captivity and being fed by people . As a hunter I would say the animals do not act like animals in those movies at all . In my experience most animals try to escape when they get freaked out or like a captive animal goes back to where it feels safest

 

[spilotes]

Now youve made me curious about that

If a dangerous animal gets loose what is the protocol ? Try to empty the park dudes with tranqs and a stand by with a rifle ? I dont know anything about how a zoo runs but Im sure you guys gotta have some kind of back up plan ..... Its one of the reasons I hated Jurassic world it didnt seem likely to me that the park would just go oh shit and let it happen ...... I also didnt think the dactyls would just randomly start attacking everything in sight after years in captivity and being fed by people . As a hunter I would say the animals do not act like animals in those movies at all . In my experience most animals try to escape when they get freaked out or like a captive animal goes back to where it feels safest

I was a Keeper for 20 years, my zoo had a protocol that all employees had to know in case of escape, everybody had a part to play. A code went over the walkies to alert all employees, and have details as to what was out, where it was last seen in the zoo, and what direction it was headed. Also if anybody was hurt. The head secretary would call local police and advise them of the situation and if any injuries were noted get medics on the way, and if it was something like a venomous snake and someone was bitten alert local hospitals what antivenin was needed so they could be locating that, most hospitals only store antivenin for native species, and even then not much, so most likely it would have to be flown in from another location. It depended on what animal was out on who responded to the actual animal, the keeper in charge of the section the animal stays and whoever knows the animal best and had the best relationship with the animal would be on the recovery team. Other keepers, along with security and maintenance and other employees would start closing all perimeter gates and exists(to contain the animal) and move visitors to the nearest safe place, whether that be a bathroom or shed or whatever, listening to the walkie to determine where the animal seemed to be headed and securing those areas first. The recovery team would be the big bosses, the keeper in charge of the animal and any keepers who could work the animal the best, the vet staff who would have tranqs ready, and a shooter team just in case, if a human is in danger of being killed the animal has to go down, but that is a only if absolutely necessary thing. Several employees would be trained to be shooters, and would be responsible for retrieving weapons and ammo and being on standby. It kinda depends on the animal on the specifics, every animal has different reactions and responses, even within the same species, so a lot of it just came down to knowing the animal and being able to read it’s behaviors. But the main thing we would do is try to open up a path for it to return to its enclosure, most animals once they get out they panic because all the sudden they are in the great unknown, and if given a chance will return to familiar places, so that is the main thing we would try to do. If that isn’t working then tranqs come into play, but only if it’s deemed a return to the enclosure isn’t gonna happen, because meds with animals can be hit and miss, with adrenaline pumping it may not work, and too much can kill them, a lot of animals even if they go down can pop up in the blink of an eye, not slowly but all the sudden wide awake, and it takes time to take effect and while you’re waiting for it to go down all you’ve done is piss it off. Even if we tranqed it we would wrap it in a heavy rope net in case it popped up. I can’t stress enough how much of a possibility that was. During vet procedures I’ve had a giant anteater wake up and stab me in the arm, I’ve seen chimps wake up and grab people, big cats like lions and jaguars have popped up on us, that will make you shit your pants! The police would automatically be in charge of it if it made it off zoo grounds, and if it became a blood bath on grounds they could take control any time but they understood we were more likely to be able to control things without any harm. But giving it time to return on its own was the biggest priority, even if took all day we’d leave people in their safe space and be patient, as long as nobody was in immediate danger that was the way we’d proceed. If there was a certain food or other item they would go for we’d try putting that out to lure them back in, whatever worked. And like i said most animals would return on their own, they get out and it’s like oh shit, this is overwhelming, I need to get back to where I know. Everybody had a role to play, and it was a requirement to know it all by heart, and we’d have drills to help play it out, somebody would play an escaped chimp or lion or whatever, nobody but a few planners would know, they’d just show up and have a sign that let you know it’s a drill and they were such and such animal and it’s go time. We’d try to cover as many different aspects as we could to prepare for different scenarios. One of the secretaries took notes during all drills, every move made, every word said, and afterwards we’d have a staff meeting and go every second of the whole thing, where could we improve, what could we do better, etc. The biggest problem we had was when something happens, everybody wants to run to the action, and that is chaos. All that does is stress the animal more and the recovery team. And if everybody is there nobody is securing visitors or closing gates. So if you didn’t do your proper part you’d face big trouble, we had to make sure everybody responded properly to make sure it ran smoothly. That applies to visitors too, some don’t want to go to a safe space. We weren’t suppose to give details, shit gets twisted the more it gets spread around, just say it’s an emergency, but some people would think it’s a drill I don’t have to play along, or they’d want to go film with their damn phone, we could give details if they kept refusing, but if it came down to being attacked then fuck you you’re on your own, should have listened. If you’re in a zoo and they try to get you to safety, go to safety, it may not be a drill, and I promise you if it’s a dangerous animal (chimp, lion, tiger) you’re not going to win, they are crazy strong and fast and tough, you’re going to get fucked up bad, if you survive.

 

[Gutter Chris]

I was a Keeper for 20 years, my zoo had a protocol that all employees had to know in case of escape, everybody had a part to play. A code went over the walkies to alert all employees, and have details as to what was out, where it was last seen in the zoo, and what direction it was headed. Also if anybody was hurt. The head secretary would call local police and advise them of the situation and if any injuries were noted get medics on the way, and if it was something like a venomous snake and someone was bitten alert local hospitals what antivenin was needed so they could be locating that, most hospitals only store antivenin for native species, and even then not much, so most likely it would have to be flown in from another location. It depended on what animal was out on who responded to the actual animal, the keeper in charge of the section the animal stays and whoever knows the animal best and had the best relationship with the animal would be on the recovery team. Other keepers, along with security and maintenance and other employees would start closing all perimeter gates and exists(to contain the animal) and move visitors to the nearest safe place, whether that be a bathroom or shed or whatever, listening to the walkie to determine where the animal seemed to be headed and securing those areas first. The recovery team would be the big bosses, the keeper in charge of the animal and any keepers who could work the animal the best, the vet staff who would have tranqs ready, and a shooter team just in case, if a human is in danger of being killed the animal has to go down, but that is a only if absolutely necessary thing. Several employees would be trained to be shooters, and would be responsible for retrieving weapons and ammo and being on standby. It kinda depends on the animal on the specifics, every animal has different reactions and responses, even within the same species, so a lot of it just came down to knowing the animal and being able to read it’s behaviors. But the main thing we would do is try to open up a path for it to return to its enclosure, most animals once they get out they panic because all the sudden they are in the great unknown, and if given a chance will return to familiar places, so that is the main thing we would try to do. If that isn’t working then tranqs come into play, but only if it’s deemed a return to the enclosure isn’t gonna happen, because meds with animals can be hit and miss, with adrenaline pumping it may not work, and too much can kill them, a lot of animals even if they go down can pop up in the blink of an eye, not slowly but all the sudden wide awake, and it takes time to take effect and while you’re waiting for it to go down all you’ve done is piss it off. Even if we tranqed it we would wrap it in a heavy rope net in case it popped up. I can’t stress enough how much of a possibility that was. During vet procedures I’ve had a giant anteater wake up and stab me in the arm, I’ve seen chimps wake up and grab people, big cats like lions and jaguars have popped up on us, that will make you shit your pants! The police would automatically be in charge of it if it made it off zoo grounds, and if it became a blood bath on grounds they could take control any time but they understood we were more likely to be able to control things without any harm. But giving it time to return on its own was the biggest priority, even if took all day we’d leave people in their safe space and be patient, as long as nobody was in immediate danger that was the way we’d proceed. If there was a certain food or other item they would go for we’d try putting that out to lure them back in, whatever worked. And like i said most animals would return on their own, they get out and it’s like oh shit, this is overwhelming, I need to get back to where I know. Everybody had a role to play, and it was a requirement to know it all by heart, and we’d have drills to help play it out, somebody would play an escaped chimp or lion or whatever, nobody but a few planners would know, they’d just show up and have a sign that let you know it’s a drill and they were such and such animal and it’s go time. We’d try to cover as many different aspects as we could to prepare for different scenarios. One of the secretaries took notes during all drills, every move made, every word said, and afterwards we’d have a staff meeting and go every second of the whole thing, where could we improve, what could we do better, etc. The biggest problem we had was when something happens, everybody wants to run to the action, and that is chaos. All that does is stress the animal more and the recovery team. And if everybody is there nobody is securing visitors or closing gates. So if you didn’t do your proper part you’d face big trouble, we had to make sure everybody responded properly to make sure it ran smoothly. That applies to visitors too, some don’t want to go to a safe space. We weren’t suppose to give details, shit gets twisted the more it gets spread around, just say it’s an emergency, but some people would think it’s a drill I don’t have to play along, or they’d want to go film with their damn phone, we could give details if they kept refusing, but if it came down to being attacked then fuck you you’re on your own, should have listened. If you’re in a zoo and they try to get you to safety, go to safety, it may not be a drill, and I promise you if it’s a dangerous animal (chimp, lion, tiger) you’re not going to win, they are crazy strong and fast and tough, you’re going to get fucked up bad, if you survive.

Thank you for taking the time to type all that out , Im always curious about how things work behind the scenes.I did not know bout the let them go back on their own but it makes perfect sense. I did work on a horse farm and once the animal would calm down a bit they almost always went to one of 3 places. The hay truck , to where their fave girl was or back home to the barn. Protocol in the stable was also close all gates and try to steer it home.

When you were a keeper who were the most troublesome animals to deal with? Was it the dangerous ones that wanted to act a fool or was it some little clever go like an otter or something that just wanted to mess with you guys ? When I worked on a farm it was actually the goats that caused the most trouble. Horses get freaked out and want to get back home but goats know its a game and will run you ragged trying to catch one . They didnt like to be steered home and they would let you almost catch them then run another 50 feet or so and look at you for the next round. I could never decide if they were dumb as a bag of hammers or extremely clever. Also a brand new truck is like a magnet to them and if you get one they are going to climb on the hood and roof almost every time without fail .

 

[Zookeeper Gabe]

@spilotes, that’s hilarious I saw someone had posted with the username Spilotes in my thread and I went well that’s a genus I know and love. What zoos have you worked at?

@Gutter Chris aza zoos have to do dangerous animal drills to maintain their accreditation at least once a year. Some zoos take them wicked serious and have a keeper or other member of the staff pretend to be the animal running around and hiding etc. other times you just need to imagine what you’re chasing lol. Dangerous animal escapes can go a bunch of different ways, a snow leopard was out for hours at The Bronx Zoo (I believe I could be wrong) and they couldn’t find it. It was curled up waiting to get back into its exhibit because it was scared.
You need to be prepared for as many different scenarios as you can, tranqs and firearms are on hand as a last resort. I was on the dangerous animal team at my last Zoo and was a designated shooter in case of emergency. I'm not currently because I have never gotten around to getting my firearms lic in RI but probably will eventually.

 

[MikeMcMann]

I was a Keeper for 20 years, my zoo had a protocol that all employees had to know in case of escape, everybody had a part to play. A code went over the walkies to alert all employees, and have details as to what was out, where it was last seen in the zoo, and what direction it was headed. Also if anybody was hurt. The head secretary would call local police and advise them of the situation and if any injuries were noted get medics on the way, and if it was something like a venomous snake and someone was bitten alert local hospitals what antivenin was needed so they could be locating that, most hospitals only store antivenin for native species, and even then not much, so most likely it would have to be flown in from another location. It depended on what animal was out on who responded to the actual animal, the keeper in charge of the section the animal stays and whoever knows the animal best and had the best relationship with the animal would be on the recovery team. Other keepers, along with security and maintenance and other employees would start closing all perimeter gates and exists(to contain the animal) and move visitors to the nearest safe place, whether that be a bathroom or shed or whatever, listening to the walkie to determine where the animal seemed to be headed and securing those areas first. The recovery team would be the big bosses, the keeper in charge of the animal and any keepers who could work the animal the best, the vet staff who would have tranqs ready, and a shooter team just in case, if a human is in danger of being killed the animal has to go down, but that is a only if absolutely necessary thing. Several employees would be trained to be shooters, and would be responsible for retrieving weapons and ammo and being on standby. It kinda depends on the animal on the specifics, every animal has different reactions and responses, even within the same species, so a lot of it just came down to knowing the animal and being able to read it’s behaviors. But the main thing we would do is try to open up a path for it to return to its enclosure, most animals once they get out they panic because all the sudden they are in the great unknown, and if given a chance will return to familiar places, so that is the main thing we would try to do. If that isn’t working then tranqs come into play, but only if it’s deemed a return to the enclosure isn’t gonna happen, because meds with animals can be hit and miss, with adrenaline pumping it may not work, and too much can kill them, a lot of animals even if they go down can pop up in the blink of an eye, not slowly but all the sudden wide awake, and it takes time to take effect and while you’re waiting for it to go down all you’ve done is piss it off. Even if we tranqed it we would wrap it in a heavy rope net in case it popped up. I can’t stress enough how much of a possibility that was. During vet procedures I’ve had a giant anteater wake up and stab me in the arm, I’ve seen chimps wake up and grab people, big cats like lions and jaguars have popped up on us, that will make you shit your pants! The police would automatically be in charge of it if it made it off zoo grounds, and if it became a blood bath on grounds they could take control any time but they understood we were more likely to be able to control things without any harm. But giving it time to return on its own was the biggest priority, even if took all day we’d leave people in their safe space and be patient, as long as nobody was in immediate danger that was the way we’d proceed. If there was a certain food or other item they would go for we’d try putting that out to lure them back in, whatever worked. And like i said most animals would return on their own, they get out and it’s like oh shit, this is overwhelming, I need to get back to where I know. Everybody had a role to play, and it was a requirement to know it all by heart, and we’d have drills to help play it out, somebody would play an escaped chimp or lion or whatever, nobody but a few planners would know, they’d just show up and have a sign that let you know it’s a drill and they were such and such animal and it’s go time. We’d try to cover as many different aspects as we could to prepare for different scenarios. One of the secretaries took notes during all drills, every move made, every word said, and afterwards we’d have a staff meeting and go every second of the whole thing, where could we improve, what could we do better, etc. The biggest problem we had was when something happens, everybody wants to run to the action, and that is chaos. All that does is stress the animal more and the recovery team. And if everybody is there nobody is securing visitors or closing gates. So if you didn’t do your proper part you’d face big trouble, we had to make sure everybody responded properly to make sure it ran smoothly. That applies to visitors too, some don’t want to go to a safe space. We weren’t suppose to give details, shit gets twisted the more it gets spread around, just say it’s an emergency, but some people would think it’s a drill I don’t have to play along, or they’d want to go film with their damn phone, we could give details if they kept refusing, but if it came down to being attacked then fuck you you’re on your own, should have listened. If you’re in a zoo and they try to get you to safety, go to safety, it may not be a drill, and I promise you if it’s a dangerous animal (chimp, lion, tiger) you’re not going to win, they are crazy strong and fast and tough, you’re going to get fucked up bad, if you survive.

Oh common man. Break that up into a few paragraphs even if arbitrarily done.

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

Horses get freaked out and want to get back home but goats know its a game and will run you ragged trying to catch one . They didnt like to be steered home and they would let you almost catch them then run another 50 feet or so and look at you for the next round. I could never decide if they were dumb as a bag of hammers or extremely clever. Also a brand new truck is like a magnet to them and if you get one they are going to climb on the hood and roof almost every time without fail .

They made you catch runaway goats? Isn't that what herding dogs are for?

 

[Gutter Chris]

They made you catch runaway goats? Isn't that what herding dogs are for?

It was a horse track/stable so there wasnt a farm dog on duty and with the amount of traffic they couldnt just roam free. . Besides I had 9 hours a day to kill and chasing goats beats the hell out of sitting in a hot office all day . Lastly playing with goats is fun .... dealing with horse owners was not

They would show up on race day in a shiny new mercades without a license to come in and without fail scream DO YOU KNOW WHO THE FUCK I AM . After dealing with that a couple dozen times I imagine you would prefer the goats too.

 

[spilotes]

@Zookeeper Gabe Hope you didn’t mind me jumping in. I set up an account last year, lurked for many years before that, but it was just to get the latest news and opinions on mma. Last night I couldn’t sleep and decided to roam the forums a bit, saw a keeper thread and noticed nobody had replied to the escapee question so I figured I’d have a go at it. Seems a lot of misinformation gets attached to zoos and keepers, I enjoy giving some knowledge to help correct that.

Oh man I’ve been working spilotes since the 90’s, my favorites! I was into them before most reptile people even heard of them. Nice to see them starting to catch on.

I worked at the Montgomery zoo in Alabama for 20 years. I was lead keeper when I retired, next in line to bump up to management, but my back was trashed, I just couldn’t make it any longer. I entertained going to other zoos from time to time, but Montgomery zoo was run by the city, which meant way better pay than most zoos and great benefits, which I got to keep after retirement so I stuck it out there. We would do some things at other zoos, workshops or prep work with a new species we had coming in, and times when hurricanes hit Florida hard we’d go down for a couple weeks and help out zoos down there, but Montgomery was the only one I was employed at.

And obviously I check out the zoos everywhere I go. Have my director call their director and get in free, usually with a behind the scenes tour!

 

[spilotes]

@Gutter Chris Oh man, that’s a hard question! Overall I’d say the primates were the most difficult, especially chimps. They tend to be more alert to their surroundings and how things work. We had locks on their doors, and then two nuts and bolts, because they are crazy strong. But they are smart, if we didn’t use a wrench to tighten down the nuts and bolts they would unscrew them. I’ve seen them try to pick a lock. Not like they understand picking a lock, but they watch us stick a key in a lock over and over day after day, and they would find a small object and try the same thing. You just couldn’t let your guard down with them.

But it really varied, some of the dangerous animals were really chill, we had some tigers that just wanted to be petted all the time. And it varies within species too. Some species could be really laid back, but you’d have one in the group that just was a jerk! Emperor tamarins were like that, most of the group was really easy going, one would sit on my shoulder and eat, but one of them was just a pain in the ass. They had a lot of branches for climbing, so when we raked we’d have to bend over to get under all the branches, and he’d jump on our back and bite. One time he got me, I was feeding, their food bowl hung on the cage, I’m setting it up, and he climbed down from the top of the cage and before I saw him he reached down and scratched my eye.

The dangerous animals overall were a little more difficult, but that was just because we couldn’t go in with them, so were limited on what you could do. We didn’t use force or anything, but for instance the male elk, which should have been off limits to be honest but wasn’t, when he went into rut he was a badass. He’d attack anything that moved, ive seen him scoop up full grown white tail deer, throw them in the air, and ram them as they came down. We had an aisle way we brought him through to get inside at night, and during rut he’d get in that aisle way and decide to test you. He’d curl his lip up, start turning his head sideways, and then come at you. If you ran he’d keep coming. But if you stood your ground and acted tough he’d back down and go inside. The more dangerous stuff we couldn’t do that, we couldn’t be in there with them. So lions and chimps and bears etc, they knew they could push things more and you’re stuck outside their area with limited options. But, most animals, dangerous or not, would get in a routine and not be much trouble. And the few times they were it was more related to breeding season and be aggressive due to that. I had a gator I worked with, she was real laid back, I could rake around her, clean her pool with her in there, but breeding season once she made a nest you couldn’t step foot in there without her charging.

And sometimes it depended on who was working them. Certain animals would just always give certain keepers problems. Some animals that were a pain would be amazing for only one or two keepers. Many things contribute to that. Smell could be a big part of that. The black bears couldn’t stand smokers. Certain perfumes would drive the big cars crazy. And if we had an animal trained, if you didn’t follow their routine to the letter they’d get worked up.

But yeah ultimately I’d have to say primates, and anything that was more intelligent than usual would be the biggest problems. Most of the animals we’d classify as dumber would fall into a routine fairly easy. Elephants could be horrible if you didn’t follow the routine. If you did they were a delight, but if they got in a mood it’s like they intentionally fucked with you haha!

I hear you on the goats, we had some in the petting zoo and they could be so stubborn!

 

[MikeMcMann]

@spilotes , I can say from experience that @Zookeeper Gabe is a badass who does not share well and has said before when it comes to zookeepers on this forum his view is...

Watch you head as he'll come looking for ya.

 

[spilotes]

@MikeMcMann My bad, didn’t realize I was getting graded!

Seriously though, noted. I usually don’t do that, had a rough night last night, and also didn’t realize how much I had typed. I just kinda got going on a topic I know a lot about and rambled. Once I realized, I thought fuck it, it’s an off topic thread on a mma board.

My apologies.

 

[spilotes]

@spilotes , I can say from experience that @Zookeeper Gabe is a badass who does not share well and has said before when it comes to zookeepers on this forum his view is...

Watch you head as he'll come looking for ya.

Haha, I enjoy a good challenge. As I tell my daughters boyfriend, I have access to animals that will dispose of bodies, plus a large incinerator!

 

[MikeMcMann]

@MikeMcMann My bad, didn’t realize I was getting graded!

Seriously thought, noted. I usually don’t do that, had a rough night last night, and also didn’t realize how much I had typed. I just kinda got going on a topic I know a lot about and rambled. Once I realized, I thought fuck it, it’s an off topic thread on a mma board.

My apologies.

haha. no worries. It seems like others who read it enjoyed it and I love the talk in these threads. But i just can't take that on in such a huge block. Think I would have an epileptic like fit trying.

Haha, I enjoy a good challenge. As I tell my daughters boyfriend, I have access to animals that will dispose of bodies, plus a large incinerator!

Well now it looks like its on as I don't think Gabe can let that pass.

 

[raty tat tat]

@Zookeeper Gabe any prehistoric beasts you'd
like at your zoo?

 

[Zookeeper Gabe]

To be fair @MikeMcMann the other was an imposter and thus needed to be dealt with...

Edit.
Now that I think of it this would be similar to the structure in a wild dog pack. When there’s an elderly, crippled animal that can no longer fully take care of itself the pack helps it. So, being the younger more physically fit one, I shall assist @spilotes in any way needed.

 

[jefferz]

 

[Monkadelic]

aza zoos have to do dangerous animal drills

So ... Man-drills?

 

[JOE QUEEF]

 

[spilotes]

To be fair @MikeMcMann the other was an imposter and thus needed to be dealt with...

Edit.
Now that I think of it this would be similar to the structure in a wild dog pack. When there’s an elderly, crippled animal that can no longer fully take care of itself the pack helps it. So, being the younger more physically fit one, I shall assist @spilotes in any way needed.

Thanks man, and I’ll pass along the wisdom of an old timer haha