"You dont stop the fight, the ref does!"

[LilMountain]

How do you think the ref is supposed to signal to both fighters that the fight is over? Hint: it's not by walking out of frame in the wrong direction as a leglock is being applied. It's also not by just saying "STOP" in a deafening loud arena and hoping somebody hears you.

It's by physically interjecting yourself between the 2 fighters. That's the only way to make sure they notice you.

A hand on the fighter holding the sub?

Like so;

or so

 

[ISWThunder]

if you don't think there's such a thing as a ref being out of position than i don't know what to tell you - it's obvious from the video and i'm not the only one saying it - and no he doesn't make contact with palhares 1st - it clearly shows him going to the sub 1st and then moving up to get palhares' attention - if anything the histrionics on display painting palhares as some evil villain are far more egregious and obvious than any supposed "rationalizing" on my part

clearly we won't agree - i'm neutral when it comes to palhares in general so none of this is any skin off my back

I never said that a ref can't be out of position. I said that he wasn't out of position in this scenario. He was walking around the fighters as they spun away from him.


The ref's first contact is clearly his left hand on Palhares' left shoulder. As he slides around, his right hand grabs Palhares' by the legs.

 

[hussar922]

I didnt say he needed to let go when he felt the taps, just to be more aware of the ref's impending arrival. Thus when the ref first put a hand on him as he was sliding in that should have been sufficient, all this "he didnt see him right away" and "the ref didnt assert himself enough" acts like he had no idea a ref might be coming

they weren't in a library - he's concentrating on the sub - the crowd is roaring and their bodies are all tangled up - watch herb dean or big john ref - when they stop a fight the 1st thing they do is make sure they have the dominant fighter's attention

 

[That209]

1.8 seconds too late.

It's OK to choke your opponent unconscious and drop them on their face though.

 

[hussar922]

I never said that a ref can't be out of position. I said that he wasn't out of position in this scenario. He was walking around the fighters as they spun away from him.


The ref's first contact is clearly his left hand on Palhares' left shoulder. As he slides around, his right hand grabs Palhares' by the legs.

he was clearly out of position - this thread is getting repetitive and a little boring and i don't care enough about palhares as a fan to keep making the point so we'll just have to disagee

 

[LilMountain]

they weren't in a library - he's concentrating on the sub - the crowd is roaring and there's bodies are all tangled up - watch herb dean or big john ref - when they stop a fight the 1st thing they do is make sure they have the dominant fighter's attention

Yeah, and having already felt multiple taps by pierce he shouldn't have been surprised by the feeling of a rubber glove on his shoulder, which should have sufficed

 

[Sano]

It's not overblown. When you've been busted once for an offense, and repeat it later, the action taken against you should be harsher, despite the second offense arguably being less severe.

If you were convicted of an assault on someone and sent them to the hospital for a month and they were eating out of a tube, you'd get punished. Let's say a few years later you beat another guy up, but this time you just broke his nose and scraped him up. The second assault is less physically damaging, but legally it's a huge fuck-up. You did your time for your first offense but apparently did not learn your lesson. You shouldn't get the same type of slap on the wrist that a first-time offender would get for breaking a guy's nose; instead your past crimes which were equal in character but inequal in severity should be factored into your sentence.

I get what you are saying, but I'm not sure the law analogy is the same thing, because these things are not set in stone.

Firstly, we are in agreement that his past mistakes overshadows this one. Where we don't agree, and where it becomes kind of subjective, is did he break any rule at all this time? And if he did, was it an infraction big enough to warrent being banned, even with the past in mind?

I've explained how I see it. The one second, him looking at the ground(look at the youtube clip), letting go when he looks up and sees the ref, no crank(the ref's weight pushed them over) and no injuries. This is what I see and that is not enough.

I do agree that he has messed up a lot, and I don't have any personal attachment to him as a fan, it is just how I see this matter.

Also, I find the hypocrisy glaring. Rarely, if ever, have we seen a reaction like this. Which is not in proportion to the damage, or lack off, done in this fight. Other people have been hailed for much worse. Not saying two wrongs make a right, but it's something to consider.

 

[RcksonbyArmbar]

Except he failed to follow the "bosses orders" by finishing early and by finishing late, twice. Neither of those are correct.

There are a lot of great athletes who simply don't have the mental faculties to understand basic sporting rules.
There is a specific place for them to compete, and it is called the Special Olympics.

Palhares might not be the brightest guy the ufc has ever seen, but your special olympics comment is fucked up.

on top of that consider the fact that someone has to translate that to him in portuguese. some context and meaning could have been lost. although it takes some experience to really understand what i mean by that.

Beyond all that crap im not giving my opinion because 90% of sherdog has already said the same things. such as your entire post.

 

[Cygnus-X]

Why the hell is the ref trying to stop by diving in towards both fighters legs and somehow untie the leg lock? Fucking stupidity. Go towards the fighter that needs to be stopped instead, ffs.

 

[wake_me]

Babalu got in similar shit. Yet, no repercussions for Rampage against Wandy or BJ vs Pulver

 

[tdluxon]

I've seen no evidence that the ref was late to step in. It looks to me like the ref stepped in quickly.

I agree, I thought the ref got there pretty fast to me, as fast as you could reasonably expect.

To me the more important factors though are
1. He is a repeat offender known for doing this exact thing, and has already been disciplined for it once (this is the most important factor by far),
2. Regardless of the ref, it was pretty obvious Pierce was tapping like crazy and screaming in pain, and
2. The heel hook is a submission that is known to be particularly dangerous. If it was a RNC or something it wouldn't have been nearly as big a deal.

 

[DrewGZA]

I'm pretty sure there's worse from Gracie but 2:50

 

[tdluxon]

I'm pretty sure there's worse from Gracie but 2:50

True but things were way different then... Keith Hackney wailed on Joe Son's balls for like ten punches in a row.

 

[JKS]

He didn't stop as soon as the ref stepped in. This is not the first time he's done this. He did it in ADCC as well.

He's shown he can't be trusted to follow ref's orders, so he's a liability.

What does ADCC have to do with this?? He is in the UFC.

He let go 1 second after the ref came grabbed him..........have a look at Penn vs Pulver and how long BJ held that choke. Same shit

 

[DrewGZA]

True but things were way different then... Keith Hackney wailed on Joe Son's balls for like ten punches in a row.

True, but Palharas could have been thinking of this:

5:33

 

[Jocke]

The contest is over once one fighter submits, be it by submission or strikes. If a person is unconcious naturally they can't submit and then it's up the ref to do his job to protect the fighter.

 

[tenniswhiz]

this - i just watched that fight (minutes ago - didn't see it fight night) and i didn't really see it it - it seemed to me as soon as he noticed the ref break in he let it go

Yes, the Drwal fight, the ADCC offense, the roids, and whatever they felt about the Pierce fight added up in fans' minds.

 

[laleggenda27]

The Unified Rules are unclear as to whether the fight ends with the tap, or whether referee intervention signals the official end of the bout. Either way, Palhares clearly should have released the hold earlier. Pierce was screaming and blatantly tapping - this wasn't a reluctant or questionable tap. Palhares is a very experience grappler and he knows exactly what he's doing out there. He's exhibited this kind of behavior in both the grappling and MMA contexts. Holding chokes for a second or two longer is one thing (although still bad), but torquing limbs for a second or two extra can drastically affect a fighter's ability to earn a living.

 

[TobikanJudan94]

Except he didn't stop when the referee grabbed him.

And did that shit TWICE...and in ADCC,outside UFC,and BJJ tournaments as well.
People just can't understand this guy is a psycho.

 

[VAfan]

TS is misinterpreting Dana worse than paul harris might have - he meant the ref signals the end of the fight, not the ref needs to hit you over the head with a bat because you're latched on permanently like some rabid animal.