y people dislike alexander/krazy horse/kimbo

[devante]

i put this in the standup cus i thought it might be wasted in the heacyweight forum and because the guys in this suceed w/standup, plus some of the best self def.tech discusiion comes in this forum.

there is alot of hate for these three guys, an alot of people revel in their failures or losses or *****s in their armor.

the reason for the hate is these guys to some extent have proven that strength power toughness aggression speed and physicality can make up for tech shortcomings by forcing an opp out of his comfort zone an applying enough pressure to break an opp will and mindset.

most people like to look at mma and martial arts as the equalizer; better tech will allow u to overcome a superior physical opp, an these three along w/bob sapp have disproved this to a certain degree. Basically using avg technical standup that is bolstered by alot of power, athleticism, strength to walk through tech superior strikers; as well as guys w/better ground skills,,,

now sapp/alexander/horse have all to an extent been exposed to have HUGE holes in their games which have resulted in decisive losses; nonetheless all have had more success than they should have based on skills and have in instances been able to compete w/the best in the world moreso than more skilled and well rounded opp

ex-alexander-crushed a superior striker w/good hands/muay thai and good handspeed, power and coordination; a 500. guy in the ufc, but a more exp and skilled guy def. He also walked through keith jardine, the same jardine who decisioned liddel, beat down gouveia and loss a competitive dec to bonnar. A guy w/decent; but very limited standup crushed a top 5 lhw guy a/aggression power physicality.

krazy horse-koed noons-the guy who blasted out edson berto, an beat the hell out of nick diaz and was a pro boxer; horse is a guy w/educated but rudimentary standup. But he koed a guy nick diaz couldn't touch. An he has beaten some lower level guys, all guys who had better groundskills; but most werent able to deal w/his aggression and athleticism yoshiro maeda in pride, gerald strebent, shad smith. These guys aren't world beaters; but just on skills alone should have crushed him an didnt, hell he even put on a good performance against gomi, the same gomi who walked through jadson costa (chutebox) and ralph gracie w/out breaking a sweat was on his heels against a tech inferior one dimensional fighter. This same guy was able to dominate ludwig b4 gassing and losing , the same guy who jens pulver and johnathan goulet couldn't make it out a round w/

bob sapp-beat up better skilled guys w/size strength power and damn near killed noguiera, in what nog called one of his hardest fights; the same nog who walked through coleman, dominated herring twice, dominated and subbed hendo,


now these guuys have had decisive losses; but its the successes that disturb people, because it relates back to us on the street who have to accept the fact that skills don't always guarantee a win or success against a guy who is coming to hurt u esp if they are athletically superior.

which is part of the reason for the hate for kimbo who is pretty much the same, people hate the fact that guys who arent national state or world champs can come in and walk through guys who the best guys in the world struggle w/based on basic ability and rudimentary skills.

people like to insist that if ur trained a guy w/limited or no skills cant win and these guys disprove that an it bothers people who love the art and the science of it, cus it goes against what they learned...

this is prob new to those who grapple; but to strikers we all know ability, will and toughness can carry u, which is where u will see the least amount of hate for these guys

thoughts/opinions

 

[devante]

also in the case of kimbo, most of us, b4 he got w/bas prob had better actual standup and groundskills; an he would have mopped the floor w/the majority of us in a fight.

w/strength basic standup athleticism and aggression size he would have ran us over; an to be honest krazy horse w/out all his exp would have stomped the majority of us out in a fair one, even given most of us have better skills

alexander is still not much of a tech and on the street would prob pound the majority of us out w/aggression athleticism power and strength..

same w/ sapp

guys who were able to compete on a world class level w/no real comparable skills, just power strength athleticism and aggression.

that bothers the real fans of mma and people who train, cus it puts us right back where we started; the bigger stronger aggressive guys beatin the hell out of the lesser gifted/imposing or tough guy.

 

[blanko]

i think that people really underestimated houston alexander... Jadine made an error by trading with him.

 

[devante]

i think that people really underestimated houston alexander... Jadine made an error by trading with him.

alexander didnt give him the chance, keith got him w/a body shot off houston's leg kick and dropped him w/a chopping left hand; instead of backing up, houston rushed him..pinned him up against the fence and proceeded to beat the hell our of jardine.

alot of alexanders success is the result of his "first line of def" or what i call streetfight approach go hard, land first; he gets off early stays in ur face and doesn't let u get space to do ur thing and find ur spots.


u would think w/jardine's skill and exp he could deal w/what jardine had to offer; but athleticism aggression did him in

 

[RJ Powell**]

dude, must you ramble so much in every thread you make? This aint a novel.

i'm prolly just jealous. nevermind. carry on.

 

[blanko]

alexander didnt give him the chance, keith got him w/a body shot off houston's leg kick and dropped him w/a chopping left hand; instead of backing up, houston rushed him..pinned him up against the fence and proceeded to beat the hell our of jardine.

alot of alexanders success is the result of his "first line of def" or what i call streetfight approach go hard, land first; he gets off early stays in ur face and doesn't let u get space to do ur thing and find ur spots.


u would think w/jardine's skill and exp he could deal w/what jardine had to offer; but athleticism aggression did him in

and the fact that jardine underestimated aleander's power. If they fought again keith would fight much more differently. He would fight houston like he fought chuck, by throwing low kicks and going in and out.

 

[$uperman]

edit.

 

[right hand lead]

Jardine would smash Alexander in a rematch.

it seems like Alexander/Krazy Horse/Kimbo all have major power behind their strikes but lack technique at times.

 

[Smw]

I hardly believe that kimbo has glaring short comings in his technique. Even during his street fighting days I always thought that he fought like a well oiled machine, more than a brawler. I still think that Kimbo looks better trading hands than a whole bunch of guys fighting in the UFC. Lets take Dan Henderson for example (not to say Kimbo would beat him). Kimbo has nice foot work, explosiveness, accuracy and defense for some one that is supposedly no more than a street fighter. I have no idea why people have such a dislike for his work inside the cage.

Now he needs a more challenging fight, imo.

 

[Ayin]

I think all the guys you listed (with the exception of Sapp) have a lot of confidence, which allows them to come out hard and fast, push the pace, and break other people mentaly and run them into the ground. Confidence is a major part of sports in general, but combat sports specificaly.
Martial arts are supposed to instill that confidence, but most practitioners, it seems, only have it as long as they are within their comfort zone. When they are really pressed or put outside of it, like against the come out fast swarming offence of these guys, they just can't handle it.

 

[Kosh]

Well, it's normal that people don't like those type od fighters... After all, a guy works hard, trains for years and suffers like hell, and then a big guy with no technique, who just happens to be big, naturally big, comes and takes away all that the other guy worked for years? Let's not forget other thing: can you guys imagine Bob Sapp punching you? No wonder he beat Hoost two times...

Let's see... The way Bob Sapp gets to the inside of his opponents: he asssumes the snail position and rushes his opponent! It's not pretty, but it works every single time. He has his gloves covering his face, you won't be able to land that much shots 'cause he's bent over, and he is there, right next to you! Then he throws those bombs, I mean, a punch from Sapp must have the double of the force of a top guy's punch... Hell, I rush my guys at the gym like he does and it works, they can't touch me! It's ugly? Yes. No technique? Yes? Effective and smart? Yes...

These big guys totally dismantle our fantasy that the sport has nothing to do with strength or size... They proves us wrong, thus making us not like them...

 

[joejitsuGZFS]

Guys like that( huge,strong,powerful,ect...) take apart a lot of GOOD strikers but I think a truly exceptional striker of smaller size would still destroy them. the most prominent example in my mind would of course be anderson silva, every guy he has totally ****ed up has been bulkier than him.
p.s. i know its my first post so if i said somethin stupid dont go totally ape**** on me

 

[Vector_X]

I think you said it pretty well why people don't like them. It is because if you enjoy watching a technical fight you tend to not see it a bunch because they kind of muscle their way through it. I do tend to see some glimpses of technique, but the fight seems to end so quickly(either in victory or defeat) that you never really get to see any rhythm develope.

 

[vangor]

I respect Alexander's power and athleticism a lot, I just don't respect his technique because he doesn't really have any.

 

[devante]

I respect Alexander's power and athleticism a lot, I just don't respect his technique because he doesn't really have any.

exactly based on tech and exp houston, krazy, sapp shouldn't win a fight; but because of phy ability and mindset they have been able to beat better guys

an jardine would beat alexander at this stage, maybe; but even in underestimating him, he shouldnt have lost in the 1st place which restates my orig point of how a vastly superior fighter is decimated by a limited but aggressive athletic opp.

which alot of people take personally because on the street, almost all of us are around those guys who have been the bully cus of those 3 factors; so when those guys start to lose, people get extra excited cus it bring it back to the way they relate to them athletic unskilled guy getting owned by the superior tech

 

[stu3ufc**]

race

 

[Soul Rebel]

I dont know where people get the idea that Kimbo is a brawler. As before stated, even in his BKB days he utilized boxing fundamentals such as head movement. He's not a thug like Crazy Horse.

Fuck Bob Sapp though, its his size and strength that poses a threat. In K-1 style compitition he was pretty useless (Hoost got robbed in their first match, I think he should come out of retirement just to wipe that blemish from his career).

 

[villasenor]

ex-alexander-crushed a superior striker w/good hands/muay thai and good handspeed, power and coordination; a 500. guy in the ufc, but a more exp and skilled guy def. He also walked through keith jardine, the same jardine who decisioned liddel, beat down gouveia and loss a competitive dec to bonnar. A guy w/decent; but very limited standup crushed a top 5 lhw guy a/aggression power physicality.

good hands? i have a lot of trouble taking anyone that says "good hands" seriously, what does that mean anyway? good power? hand speed? boxing? what? its the equivalent of saying "jits" instead of jiu jitsu

 

[lop dar]

just a bunch of naggers

 

[mschatz]

The whole street fights on youtube turned me off on Kimbo forever.