Television X-MEN '97 (First Official Trailer, post #292)

[GearSolidMetal]

When most of these older "legacy" ips are almost exclusively white, how can you be surprised that it's the white characters that are changed to minorities and not the other way around?

Exactly. It only goes in one direction.

And its an outright admition this woke batch of comic writers can't create their own unique and creative original minority characters, they have to tokenize already popular characters.

Its not like female and minority comic characters haven't been created before, and some are very popular and have been mentioned in this thread.

So, apparently its an outright impossibility for them to create their own new characters.

And they also are wondering why their sales are in the shitter.

They're going to reboot all these franchises an essentially endless number of times. As they do so, they're going to want to reach a new audience with these existing ips.

And how well is that going for them?

Is the Asian Hulk's issues flying off the sales? In Asia?

Can you not see a logical reason for these changes, that doesn't have anything to do with hating white people? The comics creators themselves realized as far back as the silver age that having a completely homogenous world of only white characters wasn't good for growth long term. That's why as far back as the mid 70s we saw things like a reboot of the xmen with a cast of mostly minorities. Did that lead to every iteration of the xmen being all minorities? It didn't, right? Seeing as the xmen cartoon was mostly white characters and is one of the most popular lineups ever.

Oh they're going to fix that in the upcoming X-Men '97. That's a guarantee.

As for the silver age prediction of all white superheroes being bad for the long-term, that prediction was true. So, that's why many awesome and loved minority characters were created.

But now they're making tokenized versions of popular white superheroes.

Not only did they piss off the fanbases of the original characters, brushing them aside.... they've pissed off their targeted demographic of the tokenized characters!

Kids aren't buying comics anymore, they're buying Manga, although practically all of the biggest blockbuster movies of the last 15 years have been Superhero movies.

Brilliant.

Adding minority versions of characters doesn't mean they just erase the originals. That's literally never been how it's worked.

Just because the original characters aren't killed off, and in many cases they are (only to return later, because practically no one stays dead in comics), doesn't mean they're not brushed aside, filling a role in a storyline that should have gone to the original character.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

They had NO reason to kill off Peter Parker in that comic apart to blatantly replace him with another (diverse) character. It was not part of a crossover event or anything bigger than a short storyline, localised to that comic.

The comic continued for YEARS after they did that.

this is 100% wrong and shows you didn’t even read the event in question. Peter Parker died in a storyline with Norman Osborn and that’s when miles morales took over the mantle. You’re leaving out the part when peter Parker returned. And after secret wars the ultimate universe was reborn and spider man peter Parker was once again alive and well.

 

[Contempt]

They didn't have much of a reason to kill off daredevil, wasp, cyclops, magneto, doom, professor x, and many others in the Ultimatum event either. The powers that be fucked that entire imprint right into the ground. Sales flagged and they didn't know what to do, so they killed off basically everyone for shock value. Starting with the flagship character of that entire line. Spiderman. It was a shitty decision.

My main point there is that's a larger situation than just ultimate Spiderman. And contrary to what casuals that don't read comics often think, the main continuity 616 Spiderman was not killed off and replaced with a black Spiderman. But yes, they did kill off ultimates Peter and it sucked. That's around the time I stopped reading the ultimates line. As the writing on ultimates avengers and xmen had drastically declined around the same time.

Ultimate spiderman was one of their best selling comics for a long time and you think they just completely fucked and replaced the main character it for ratings?

That's around the time I stopped reading comics altogether... the art had regressed to an embarrassing level, the writing was garbage and the woke bullshit was just becoming obnoxious to the point that I had no interest in reading anymore and I had been collecting them since I was a little kid.

 

[Mike]

OK lets talk about all the many times that black and minority characters have been replaced by white characters like... um... yeah... about that.

When it only ever happens in one direction, it says a whole lot about their motivations.

Yeah I just posted about that and it's really not hard to see why. Like many older "legacy" ips, nearly every original character was a white male. When these same ips are going to be rebooted many times over, it's pretty logical that they're going to change some of the races and genders to attract a wider audience. Same reason this new LOTR show is going to have some minority characters in it. Which people are mad about for..... some reason?

It doesn't make any sense at all, just from a marketing perspective. And the comics companies themselves realized this many years ago. When giant sized xmen was launched in 1975 rebooting the classic xmen, they added a ton of variety to the lineup. In a move you guys would call woke pandering now, they added:

An Irishman
A German man
A Japanese man
A native American man
A black woman

Did these new characters replace the older ones from the original lineup? No. Beast, marvel girl, cyclops, iceman and angel are iconic characters to this day. Did all of the new, minority versions become an instant success? No, but storm, colossus and nightcrawler are now iconic characters as well. Bringing in new minority characters didn't lead to some permanent removal of the original lineup.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

They didn't have much of a reason to kill off daredevil, wasp, cyclops, magneto, doom, professor x, and many others in the Ultimatum event either. The powers that be fucked that entire imprint right into the ground. Sales flagged and they didn't know what to do, so they killed off basically everyone for shock value. Starting with the flagship character of that entire line. Spiderman. It was a shitty decision.

My main point there is that's a larger situation than just ultimate Spiderman. And contrary to what casuals that don't read comics often think, the main continuity 616 Spiderman was not killed off and replaced with a black Spiderman. But yes, they did kill off ultimates Peter and it sucked. That's around the time I stopped reading the ultimates line. As the writing on ultimates avengers and xmen had drastically declined around the same time.

The Ultimates line was... awesome. My interest in comics was starting to weaken in the late 90s as I was going through high school.

But yeah, killing off Ultimate Peter Parker, to replace him with Miles, and later resurrect Peter Parker, and ending The Ultimates line.... REALLY wasn't a great way to introduce him.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

Exactly. It only goes in one direction.

And its an outright admition this woke batch of comic writers can't create their own unique and creative original minority characters, they have to tokenize already popular characters.

Its not like female and minority comic characters haven't been created before, and some are very popular and have been mentioned in this thread.

So, apparently its an outright impossibility for them to create their own new characters.

And they also are wondering why their sales are in the shitter.




And how well is that going for them?

Is the Asian Hulk's issues flying off the sales? In Asia?



Oh they're going to fix that in the upcoming X-Men '97. That's a guarantee.

As for the silver age prediction of all white superheroes being bad for the long-term, that prediction was true. So, that's why many awesome and loved minority characters were created.

But now they're making tokenized versions of popular white superheroes.

Not only did they piss off the fanbases of the original characters, brushing them aside.... they've pissed off their targeted demographic of the tokenized characters!

Kids aren't buying comics anymore, they're buying Manga, although practically all of the biggest blockbuster movies of the last 15 years have been Superhero movies.

Brilliant.


Just because the original characters aren't killed off, and in many cases they are (only to return later, because practically no one stays dead in comics), doesn't mean they're not brushed aside, filling a role in a storyline that should have gone to the original character.

this entire post is all wrong. One of marvels best titles over the last few years is The Hulk and its With Bruce banner. It was a critically acclaimed title.

there is no Asian hulk title as far as I know. That happened in 2015 and was short lived until Bruce banner returned. It’s now 2022. Almost a decade later.


Just face it you have no clue what you’re talking about.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

it’s probably because they’re completely full of shit.

Except you don’t read any of it so you wouldn’t know.

@Mike is a far more intelligent poster than you, and he's much better at discussing points.

So you can go away now.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

J.F.C. this upcoming cartoon triggered the fuck out of Sherdog's right-wing idiots really bad. Damn.

 

[Contempt]

this is 100% wrong and shows you didn’t even read the event in question. Peter Parker died in a storyline with Norman Osborn and that’s when miles morales took over the mantle. You’re leaving out the part when peter Parker returned. And after secret wars the ultimate universe was reborn and spider man peter Parker was once again alive and well.

Of course I fucking read it and have the entire series in boxes including multiple copies of #1, some of them signed by Bendis. As I said, a short arc localised in that comic and not part of some larger event.

They killed him off one month and replaced him the next, not in a new comic... they just continued numbering issues after replacing the main character. It was utterly ridiculous.

You missed the part where I said I stopped reading after that point? I am not remotely surprised that they would have to bring the original character back after the ratings probably tanked out the ass.

 

[Contempt]

@Mike is a far more intelligent poster than you, and he's much better at discussing points.

So you can go away now.

100% true. At least you can have an intelligent conversation with @Mike even if you disagree on a topic.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

@Mike is a far more intelligent poster than you, and he's much better at discussing points.

So you can go away now.

It’s so easy to make you look like a complete fool. Especially since you have no Fn idea what you’re talking about. There is no intelligent discussion to be had because you’re not coming at this from an intelligent point of view.

you keep saying “they replaced these characters” over and over again and none of these characters were replaced. Not one of them.

you have no clue what you’re talking about and you don’t read the books so it’s like pissing in the ind discussing this stuff with you.

 

[Contempt]

this entire post is all wrong. One of marvels best titles over the last few years is The Hulk and its With Bruce banner. It was a critically acclaimed title.

there is no Asian hulk title as far as I know. That happened in 2015 and was short lived until Bruce banner returned. It’s now 2022. Almost a decade later.


Just face it you have no clue what you’re talking about.

Yes it is ALWAYS short lived after the readership tanks and they need to restore the original character.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

Of course I fucking read it and have the entire series in boxes including multiple copies of #1, some of them signed by Bendis. As I said, a short arc localised in that comic and not part of some larger event.

They killed him off one month and replaced him the next, not in a new comic... they just continued numbering issues after replacing the main character. It was utterly ridiculous.

You missed the part where I said I stopped reading after that point? I am not remotely surprised that they would have to bring the original character back after the ratings probably tanked out the ass.

What comic is this?

 

[Mike]

Ultimate spiderman was one of their best selling comics for a long time and you think they just completely fucked and replaced the main character it for ratings?

That's around the time I stopped reading comics altogether... the art had regressed to an embarrassing level, the writing was garbage and the woke bullshit was just becoming obnoxious to the point that I had no interest in reading anymore and I had been collecting them since I was a little kid.

Imo they thought they could have the best of both worlds, by killing off ultimates Spiderman and replacing him. They could have a black Spiderman they could try to reach a new audience with, while still having the extremely popular white Peter Parker Spiderman in the main continuity. So, yes. I hated it because it arbitrarily killed the ultimate Peter Parker storyline. Which didn't just fuck up USM, but the whole line as previously they had been building the entire universe around Peter Parker.

So yeah, I hated it. But it wasn't just Morales Spiderman, but a series of frankly baffling editorial decisions across the entire line. It was right around the launch of Ultimates volume 3 that the whole imprint started to go to shit. I dont mind the idea of a black Spiderman, but hated how it was implemented. Much like the spider clone saga a decade earlier that tried to replace Parker with Ben Reilly.

 

[Contempt]

Yeah I just posted about that and it's really not hard to see why. Like many older "legacy" ips, nearly every original character was a white male. When these same ips are going to rebooted many times over, it's pretty logical that they're going to change some of the races and genders to attract a wider audience. Same reason this new LOTR show is going to have some minority characters in it. Which people are mad about for..... some reason?

It doesn't make any sense at all, just from a marketing perspective. And the comics companies themselves realized this many years ago. When giant sized xmen was launched in 1975 rebooting the classic xmen, they added a ton of variety to the lineup. In a move you guys would call woke pandering now, they added:

An Irishman
A German man
A Japanese man
A native American man
A black woman

Did these new characters replace the older ones from the original lineup? No. Beast, marvel girl, cyclops, iceman and angel are iconic characters to this day. Did all of the new, minority versions become an instant success? No, but storm, colossus and nightcrawler are now iconic characters as well. Bringing in new minority characters didn't lead to some permanent removal of the original lineup.

Just to point out that YES they did replace the originals. Do you remember that the originals then moved over to be the original lineup of x-factor?

Changing up a team lineup which happened constantly is not even remotely the same as trying to directly replace a single character.

Their most popular characters did happen to be white males but it was the character, back story and history that people liked not their fucking skin colour. The problem is that Marvel keeps trying to replace the characters that people liked.

You just gloss over the fact that it is only EVER done in one direction. I'm just waiting of the white versions of popular black or minority characters... I'm sure the left wouldn't totally explode or anything LOL

 

[Mike]

Thats another point I was trying to make, people overly focus on bad reboots where minorities are involved. Ignoring that comics are filled with reboots of a white male to a different white male that also bombed hard, because the writing was bad or fans couldn't accept the new character.

Ben Reilly Spiderman, Kyle Raynor Green lantern, Azrael Batman. It's not just some recent woke trend, comics have a long history of both successful and botched reboots using tsame race as the OG character. Comics also reboot to try to shed old continuity to free up the writers, and to reach new audiences by rebooting without changing race or gender. This is a process that's about as old as comics are.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

Yes it is ALWAYS short lived after the readership tanks and they need to restore the original character.

Once again this is wrong. Marvel, throughout its history, has always done short lived storylines that mixed up the status quo.


There even was a time the Hulk was Grey and Magneto replaced professor x as the Xmens leader and they lived in the outback. There was a time the main Xmen were on a team called X-Factor, then they returned to the Xmen.



Spider man once wore a black alien suit and there were 3-4 different versions of ghost rider.

Captain America once dropped the Stars and Stripes during the 1970s when marvel had its own version of watergate (oh the wokeness) and Rogers became Nomad. That was short lived as well.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

It’s so easy...

...for you to go away.

 

[Contempt]

What comic is this?

Hmm... interesting, I just looked it up and looks like I was misremembering that one point.

Unlike you I will admit when I was wrong. I do remember that issue now I see the cover.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

...for you to go away.

Please tell us more about the Asian hulk from almost a decade ago. Cry more please.