WTF happened to VICE News?

[James Eagle]

Gavin left when he saw the ship sinking and got PAID, Shane ran with teh investment money and RAN. He's still a wanted man. wanted dead

 

[avenue94]

Didn't the name "Vice" come from their counter culture gonzo journalism on drug use?

Some, but a lot of standard alt-weekly stuff. The part people gloss over is why alt-weeklies exist, they are meant to be an alternative to the existing media outlets and power structure. AKA they are inherently progressive.

There's no shortage of print media that has failed to transition to the digital age, so I can see how their initial success might have given them more prominence than they deserved.

This is only part of the story with Vice. Vice's huge weakness was that they went all-in on digital, which meant they gave up traditional print revenue. Vice was only valuable when they could convince advertisers that their audience of readers was unique. The gig ran out when advertisers realized Vice was a middle man and they could jsut advertise with social media companies and reach the same audiences.

Of course the story of counter culture becoming popular, commercialised, mainstream and then dying is nothing new either.

I think the biggest thing a lo tof people purposefully or ignorantly ignore in this thread is that Vice was never profitable during its heyday expansion period. Like...not one year with annual profit, and they routinely missed fiscal targets. Vice's valuation at its peak was insanely out of touch with fundamentals because investors were conning themselves into thinking that Vice could be valued as a tech platform, rather than a media outlet (much higher expenses, lower margins).

 

[avenue94]

Gavin left when he saw the ship sinking and got PAID, Shane ran with teh investment money and RAN. He's still a wanted man. wanted dead

Gavin's payout was quite small compared to the other cofounders. It's more accurate to say he was given an out to leave on his terms, rather than inevitably be fired for a pretty long list of shittiness. Dude's a grade A asshole, even according to everyone I know who's interviewed him or known him professionally.

In business terms, he was toxic to any potential investors and had to go.

 

[James Eagle]

Gavin's payout was quite small compared to the other cofounders. It's more accurate to say he was given an out to leave on his terms, rather than inevitably be fired for a pretty long list of shittiness. Dude's a grade A asshole, even according to everyone I know who's interviewed him or known him professionally.

In business terms, he was toxic to any potential investors and had to go.

other cofounders?

it was Gavin and Shane

it went from a punk rock magazine to for a small point of time to an indepth independent vlog to woke bullshit. You can clearly see when Gavin left. It's clear as day. Gavin is set for life, Shane is running for his. Hard to hide from Disney

 

[Ruprecht]

I think the biggest thing a lo tof people purposefully or ignorantly ignore in this thread is that Vice was never profitable during its heyday expansion period. Like...not one year with annual profit, and they routinely missed fiscal targets. Vice's valuation at its peak was insanely out of touch with fundamentals because investors were conning themselves into thinking that Vice could be valued as a tech platform, rather than a media outlet (much higher expenses, lower margins).

The content changes they made were aimed at increasing scope and commercialisation though right?
I can't actually think of any local equivalents. All the counter-culture weeklys and periodicals have been short lived, and none of them were successfully commercialised to any degree.

 

[avenue94]

other cofounders?

it was Gavin and Shane

And Alvi. Three cofounders.

it went from a punk rock magazine to for a small point of time to an indepth independent vlog to woke bullshit. You can clearly see when Gavin left. It's clear as day. Gavin is set for life, Shane is running for his. Hard to hide from Disney

Gavin was shown the door in 2008, Vice was valued at the lower end of the tens of millions. His payout, if he was lucky, would have been in the high 7 figures. Enough to retire very comfortably, but nowhere near what the other two founders cashed out at later.

Gavin left before most of Vice's best work.

To be very clear: The investors who sunk hundreds of millions into Vice would have absolutely never done it with Gavin there. He's poison to that kind of money.

 

[avenue94]

he content changes they made were aimed at increasing scope and commercialisation though right?

Which changes? Effectively, they tried what a lot of tech companies tried to do, or a WeWork. Diversify and claim they are a life style brand with a unique audience. Only to find out that they weren't.

Or if you want the nuts and bolts explanation, most of Vice's income was supposed to come off of internet traffic. But a lot of their work is NSFW, so advertisers won't shell out for it, and if they do, the CPM is absolutely atrocious. A single full page ad in the NY Times brings in more money than Vice's most popular video (86million views).

I can't actually think of any local equivalents. All the counter-culture weeklys and periodicals have been short lived, and none of them were successfully commercialised to any degree.

Yeah, I don't know the Australian media market very well, my experience is the US. Alt weeklies here have mostly died out and consolidated, unfortunately.

 

[James Eagle]

And Alvi. Three cofounders.

Gavin was shown the door in 2008, Vice was valued at the lower end of the tens of millions. His payout, if he was lucky, would have been in the high 7 figures. Enough to retire very comfortably, but nowhere near what the other two founders cashed out at later.

Gavin left before most of Vice's best work.

To be very clear: The investors who sunk hundreds of millions into Vice would have absolutely never done it with Gavin there. He's poison to that kind of money.

Shane is running for his life

he hasn't been seen in years, and a lot of his payout was in stock/ you can't sell shares without disclosing said shares. Disney has a team waiting

shanes fat ass will be found dead, while Gavin speaks openly daily

 

[N13]

Is fake news failing?

I wouldn't be surprised if after the Truth Social and DWAC merger, that they try to buy CNN on the cheap.

 

[avenue94]

he hasn't been seen in years, and a lot of his payout was in stock/ you can't sell shares without disclosing said shares. Disney has a team waiting

It's not a secret where Shane lives in LA, nor is he a recluse. He's out and about the world just fine. I don't know where you're getting the idea that he's on the run from Disney or doing much else other than enjoying the money as much as he can.

He even popped into Vice's offices with some regularity, even after getting kicked off the board as CEO.

He sold a massive tranche over a decade ago. This isn't a secret.

shanes fat ass will be found dead, while Gavin speaks openly daily

I mean, I Wouldn't be surprised if any of the Vice founders died from an OD. I love how you think Gavin speaks openly daily when it's just him spouting off all sorts of inane bullshit. Because again, grade A asshole and racist who had nothing to do with most of Vice's best work.

 

[Ruprecht]

Which changes? Effectively, they tried what a lot of tech companies tried to do, or a WeWork. Diversify and claim they are a life style brand with a unique audience. Only to find out that they weren't.

They expanded their content into commercial product "reviews" (I believe they outnumber actual articles now) and employed a lot of local contributors globally.
The site directs users to more localised content.

Or if you want the nuts and bolts explanation, most of Vice's income was supposed to come off of internet traffic. But a lot of their work is NSFW, so advertisers won't shell out for it, and if they do, the CPM is absolutely atrocious. A single full page ad in the NY Times brings in more money than Vice's most popular video (86million views).

Yeah, I don't know the Australian media market very well, my experience is the US. Alt weeklies here have mostly died out and consolidated, unfortunately.

The most well known counter culture stuff lasted a few years at best and dates back to the 60-70s. Revolution, Oz, High Times etc. Although Nimbin is still there as an Australian Mecca for alternative lifestyles. More stuff focused on specific music scenes in 90s.Lots of public radio shows, and short films on shows like Eat Carpet had associated publications. Socialist periodicals like Red Flag never even tried for commercialisation.

 

[James Eagle]

It's not a secret where Shane lives in LA, nor is he a recluse. He's out and about the world just fine. I don't know where you're getting the idea that he's on the run from Disney or doing much else other than enjoying the money as much as he can.

He even popped into Vice's offices with some regularity, even after getting kicked off the board as CEO.

He sold a massive tranche over a decade ago. This isn't a secret.

I mean, I Wouldn't be surprised if any of the Vice founders died from an OD. I love how you think Gavin speaks openly daily when it's just him spouting off all sorts of inane bullshit. Because again, grade A asshole and racist who had nothing to do with most of Vice's best work.

Shane hasn't been seen in years , prove me wrong

 

[James Eagle]

It's not a secret where Shane lives in LA, nor is he a recluse. He's out and about the world just fine. I don't know where you're getting the idea that he's on the run from Disney or doing much else other than enjoying the money as much as he can.

He even popped into Vice's offices with some regularity, even after getting kicked off the board as CEO.

He sold a massive tranche over a decade ago. This isn't a secret.

I mean, I Wouldn't be surprised if any of the Vice founders died from an OD. I love how you think Gavin speaks openly daily when it's just him spouting off all sorts of inane bullshit. Because again, grade A asshole and racist who had nothing to do with most of Vice's best work.

https://www.censored.tv/ he has his own network
and he is on every Wednesday with Anthony Cumia on Compound Media

 

[avenue94]

They expanded their content into commercial product "reviews" (I believe they outnumber actual articles now) and a employed a lot of local contributors globally.
The site directs users to more localised content.

Reviews, they always did, just what they reviewed changed/expanded. You can't really monetize reviews of parties or nightlife the same way you can monetize reviewing things people can actually buy.

Local contributors, that's not new, that's normal when a company expands into a new market. Plus local contributors are valuable labor for cheap since they are disproportionately people starting out and stringing for dogshit pay. That's more or less the state of modern journalism.

The most well known counter culture stuff lasted a few years at best and dates back to the 60-70s. Revolution, Oz, High Times etc. Although Nimbin is still there as an Australian Mecca for alternative lifestyles. More stuff focused on specific music scenes in 90s.Lots of public radio, and short films on shows like Eat Carpet had some associated publications. Socialist periodicals like Red Flag never even tried for commercialisation.

Much longer. Voice Media Group hung on up until the last decade. The nail in the coffin for them was the feds going after Backpage. Speaking as someone who used to work for some of those publications, it wasn't uncommon to take ads from massage parlors, whose sleezy owners would then show up and pay with cash (go figure).

A lot of those publications are trying to ride the marijuana legalization wave, but that's no guarantee.

 

[avenue94]

Shane hasn't been seen in years , prove me wrong

He went to the fucking Golden Globes barely a month ago. You are a dunce.

https://www.censored.tv/ he has his own network
and he is on every Wednesday with Anthony Cumia on Compound Media

He's also the founders of the Proud Boys and all around asshole. Again, this is what everyone I know who has interviewed or met him has described him as. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here, besides the fact he's kept busy since his Vice days.

 

[Ruprecht]

Reviews, they always did, just what they reviewed changed/expanded. You can't really monetize reviews of parties or nightlife the same way you can monetize reviewing things people can actually buy.

Local contributors, that's not new, that's normal when a company expands into a new market. Plus local contributors are valuable labor for cheap since they are disproportionately people starting out and stringing for dogshit pay. That's more or less the state of modern journalism.

Much longer. Voice Media Group hung on up until the last decade. The nail in the coffin for them was the feds going after Backpage. Speaking as someone who used to work for some of those publications, it wasn't uncommon to take ads from massage parlors, whose sleezy owners would then show up and pay with cash (go figure).

A lot of those publications are trying to ride the marijuana legalization wave, but that's no guarantee.

Vice's geographic expansion and increase in quantity came at the cost of quality though. Not sure how they recruited or what they paid, but it seriously diluted the brand.
The writers weren't/aren't as good and the documentaries are more frequent, but also a lot more variable in quality.
Some Melbournite's commentary on Taylor Swift, spending a day on free public transport for her events and getting random tattoos related to local current affairs, is a hell of a lot less watchable/readable than some Canadian going to South America or Eastern Europe to get munted on some drug they've only heard about with a fearful reputation (even if it isn't "local content").
The website is pretty insufferable when every second article they promote on the front page is a "shopping" infomercial for products as unrelated to their content as (currently) Samsonite luggage, Breville espresso machines and Ferragamo clothes. It was nothing like that a decade ago and straight up ad placement is actually less obnoxious.
Keeping the old aesthetics with the new content seems contrived as well as clunky. Like AI marketing on a geocities page from the '90s.
I'm assuming most of their content engagement is just the videos consumed on youtube.

 

[avenue94]

Vice's geographic expansion and increase in quantity came at the cost of quality though.

Sure, that's unavoidable with the Silicon Valley model of growth is priority one, we can worry about profit later. Good journalistic talent is also extremely difficult to recruit and retain.

Not sure how they recruited or what they paid, but it seriously diluted the brand.

Not very well. Freelance rate about about a decade ago was about $500 or less for feature-length pieces. They were also notorious for slow payments, or even stiffing freelancers.

Vice was always seen as a place where you start out your career and move along.

Some Melbournite's commentary on Taylor Swift, spending a day on free public transport for her events and getting random tattoos related to local current affairs, is a hell of a lot less watchable/readable than some Canadian going to South America or Eastern Europe to get munted on some drug they've only heard about with a fearful reputation (even if it isn't "local content").

Conversely, it's also far more monetizable. YouTube probably wouldn't even allow monetization of the much cooler video idea you named. That's a contradiction Vice always struggled, and failed, to solve.

It was nothing like that a decade ago and straight up ad placement is actually less obnoxious.

I won't tell you you're wrong. That's just the nature of journalism and web traffic in general. Vice is website is far more user-friendly than most media sites these days.

I'm assuming most of their content engagement is just the videos consumed on youtube.

I couldn't say, other than as I mentioned previously, the actual income is probably slanted more toward the website just due to the nature of YouTube and its unpredictability.

 

[GtehMVP]

He went to the fucking Golden Globes barely a month ago. You are a dunce.

He's also the founders of the Proud Boys and all around asshole. Again, this is what everyone I know who has interviewed or met him has described him as. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here, besides the fact he's kept busy since his Vice days.

I always remember Gavin on JRE calling Joe a smart dumb guy, the perfect description.

 

[wlu.29]

Shane hasn't been seen in years , prove me wrong

You've been proven wrong

 

[idrankyourbeer]