Wrestling gets you in better shape than BJJ/Judo

Frodo said:
Just because you say so doesn't make it so. I actually train, I don't care about watching videos. I don't memorize MMA trivia like you seem to like to do. What a nerd.
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You just can't put forth a valid argument because you know he's right.
 
Frodo said:
Then what will prove it to you? A BJJer in a wrestling match? I didn't know you can tell how much someone is straining in a video. What a keyboard warrior you are.
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Easy, by the fact one shows people butt scooting and laying almost motionless with some minor hand movements, and others showing people wildly twisting to avoid being put in the same postion JJ star gaze in.
 
I dont know that anyone is contending wrestlers are not some of the best conditioned athletes around. Or the strongest. The retard point made in the opening post is that wrestling gets people in better shape than BJJ class.

Its retarded because the OP (who is a HS kid and has a limited scope on training, life and commons sense) is comparing an organized squad geared only to COMPETITION to the training routine of a group of hobbyists where maybe 10-15% have any desire to compete. He has limited experience wrestling (unless I missed something he is a HS wrestler and so far as I know not even the starter) and limited experience with BJJ, so his base of experience is so weak his thread is a troll job.

But how did that turn into wrestlers being strong or not is my question?
 
The whole argument of BJJ having needing more technique is BS as well. Wrestling has just as much technique, you just need more strength to apply it.
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So a sport with MUCH more limited rules and MUCH more restrictive ways to secure a win now has more technique too? You kid are hopeless.
 
PaiMei said:
Easy, by the fact one shows people butt scooting and laying almost motionless with some minor hand movements, and others showing people wildly twisting to avoid being put in the same postion JJ star gaze in.
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Not all, or even most (?) BJJ matches have butt scooters. If you actually trained, you would understand that. Do you think Freestyle is less intense than folkstyle because people stay on their stomaches in the worst possible stance to stall for the standup?

omgitsrick said:
Exactly what I said and he didn't respond.
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That's because you're his tool. You cheerlead him because it fits your own views.

Real fighters don't care what they are training. They care about it working. Conditioning is one aspect orthogonal to the wrestling skills or the BJJ skills or the mt skills or the boxing skills, or whatever skills they develop. They are independent variables on different axises. Just because your BJJ practices don't approach your wrestling practices doesn't mean other people's BJJ practices can't approach wrestling practices.
 
Frodo said:
So Brandon Slay, an Olympic gold medalist, is wrong? Just because you say so doesn't make it so. I actually train: I don't care about watching videos. I don't memorize MMA trivia like you seem to like to do. What a nerd.
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yeah, i'm a nerd because i know who was in a hl video. Guess now you're trying to hurt my feelings due to a lack of anything substantial to say? Did you read what you posted?

"and I do not resist him"


Vs.

"having the ability to snap into action and be very explosive is the product of being relaxed, not tight.....i had to concentrate on relaxing....which led to higher levels of ENERGY AND EXPLOSIVENESS"

See how that differs from giving advice to not resist? I know you do.

Also, you know why Helio adopted his version of grappling? Do you know the history? It was because he was a weak tit, and couldn't do the other grappling, so he implemented a system that relied less on strength. He eliminated moves that relied on strength and instead focused on technique.
 
Oh and btw, i did wrestle.

But i don't say i don't care about videos while posting a video of me beating a state champ that doesn't work!
 
omgitsrick said:
You just can't put forth a valid argument because you know he's right.
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And you're a fucktard tool. I put forth a valid argument. He keeps ignoring it and using unsourced assumptions because he can't find actual proof. He thinks watching poor-quality videos makes him an expert on how BJJ guys train or work. When I give him an actual example, he dismisses it using an excuse that it is grappling. He didn't even watch it. He doesn't know how it went down. He doesn't know how we worked. His argument makes no sense whatsoever. All you do is cheerlead him. You add nothing to the topic. You started it based on fault premises, and you refuse to listen to anyone else with different experiences. He's trolling, and so are you.
 
PaiMei said:
Like i said, GSP, Hughes, Ortiz, Randleman, Coleman, Lesnar, Chuck, Randy, Kos, Rampage, Lindland, Henderson, Sanchez.

Strongest guys in mma are wrestlers. That is a fact.
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Actually according to a lot of the heavy weights the strongest guy in MMA is a sambo/judo guy (Fedor). Though they may be talking about explosive strength rather than general strength :icon_chee

When skill is equal, strength, agility and speed become important in any kind of grappling. Its as true for BJJ as it is for judo as it is for wrestling. Wrestling is as technical as BJJ, but its been around a lot longer so the talent pool is deeper, meaning there are an awful lot of guys with very good technique - strength and explosiveness become very important because the skill cancels. Same with judo. And the same is becoming true for BJJ as it spreads. Maybe a couple of decades ago you could win high level BJJ without using strength, but those days are gone.

Don't confuse what you see in a recreational club with what goes on at top levels - world class athletes in any grappling sport are very strong and very well conditioned. Its like playing hoops against the guys in the local schoolyard and thinking they're as athletic as Kobe :icon_twis
 
Frodo said:
And you're a fucktard tool. I put forth a valid argument. He keeps ignoring it and using unsourced assumptions because he can't find actual proof. He thinks watching poor-quality videos makes him an expert on how BJJ guys train or work. When I give him an actual example, he dismisses it using an excuse that it is grappling. He didn't even watch it. He doesn't know how it went down. He doesn't know how we worked. His argument makes no sense whatsoever. All you do is cheerlead him. You add nothing to the topic. You started it based on fault premises, and you refuse to listen to anyone else with different experiences. He's trolling, and so are you.
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Huh? I used the excuse that it is grappling? I didn't watch what? I thought you were the one who didn't watch the videos? You're nuts.

Why don't you butt scoot somewhere and go get a beer or something and relax and come to your senses?
 
PaiMei said:
yeah, i'm a nerd because i know who was in a hl video. Guess now you're trying to hurt my feelings due to a lack of anything substantial to say? Did you read what you posted?

"and I do not resist him"


Vs.

"having the ability to snap into action and be very explosive is the product of being relaxed, not tight.....i had to concentrate on relaxing....which led to higher levels of ENERGY AND EXPLOSIVENESS"

See how that differs from giving advice to not resist? I know you do.
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WTF? What part of "These examples serve to show that the principle of nonresistance is not applicable in all cases" do you not understand? The first example of "and I do not resist him" was showing how it that was the wrong strategy!!! Can YOU even READ?

Also, you know why Helio adopted his version of grappling? Do you know the history? It was because he was a weak tit, and couldn't do the other grappling, so he implemented a system that relied less on strength. He eliminated moves that relied on strength and instead focused on technique.
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Helio wasn't the guy who invented BJJ. Do you know your history of BJJ? And if strength was not important, why did Rickson develop his body so much? Helio was an example of how it can be useful, but not the only application of BJJ. BJJ can obviously be applied to making strong guys too.
 
PaiMei said:
Huh? I used the excuse that it is grappling? I didn't watch what? I thought you were the one who didn't watch the videos? You're nuts.

Why don't you butt scoot somewhere and go get a beer or something and relax and come to your senses?
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I don't watch videos. You do, so I got you one. I gave you what you wanted finally. Then you dismissed it even though it met your own standards. So you don't care just because it counters what you want to believe. That's called willful ignorance.
 
PaiMei said:
Elitist? Whatever.

I'm wrong? Who are the strongest guys then?

Big nog, Anderson silva, Joe horn, Lister, Serra?

I never said Wrestling was better for mma.

I'm talking about which gets you stronger and gives you more endurance. It's wrestling.

I'm basing it on the fact that one is passive and one isn't. One you struggle to stop yourself from getting turned to your back, another you can lay flat on your back for 5 minutes if you want, looking for a sub.

As for the passing the guard straight off the wrestling mat, my one friend used upper body throws. Even a good old fashioned headlock. Once in side control it wasn't hard for him to get the other guy mounted. The 2 subs he felt most confident with, which he only learned from watching t.v., were the kimura and arm bar. It isn't rocket science. He even got the kimura on someone.
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You're an idiot.

Wrestlers are generally in better shape because of the fact that all wrestlers attend conditioning practices to supplement their training and compete. Only a small percentage of BJJ fighters do this. Yeah, I agree, conditioning training does make you stronger and give you more endurance. The funny thing about that is, anyone who does that conditioning training can make the same gains, regardless of whether or not you train in BJJ or wrestling.

BJJ fighters also have to be prepared for every grappling scenario, haven't you ever seen a match at ADCC that ended up a wrestling match? Ricardo Arona vs Tito Ortiz comes to mind as a BJJ fighter vs wrestler where they were both equally tired by the pace of the match. Where do you get the idea that BJJ is passive? Just because you're not butting heads 24/7 does not mean that you have to fight passive while competing BJJ.

You say once a wrestler is in side control it isn't hard to mount? What the fuck are you talking about? Your wrestler friend must have been training with some pretty fucking shitty grapplers to be passing their guards, mounting them and tapping them with kimuras and americanas that he learned from watching TV. I don't believe it at all.

As a sport, BJJ can get you into as good of shape as wrestling can. The extra training is what gives wrestling the edge in athleticism, endurance and strength. Not to mention the much larger pool of people that train wrestling all over the world. Not only is it a much larger pool of people, they start from a much younger age than BJJ'ers do. You can hardly even compare a sport that is in just about every high school in America to a sport that you have to pay usually around $100 a month for and travel to on your own time.
 
What do you guys hope to accomplish with this circular argument?
 
Frodo said:
I don't watch videos. You do, so I got you one. I gave you what you wanted finally. Then you dismissed it even though it met your own standards. So you don't care just because it counters what you want to believe. That's called willful ignorance.
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You gave me a video of you beating a state champ that DOES NOT PLAY. there is nothing to see. That's called i have nothing to view because there is no video of you!
 
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