Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Xenforo Cloud is upgrading us to version 2.3.8 on Monday February 16th, 2026 at 12:00 AM PST. Expect a temporary downtime during this process.
More info here
God the Gracies r so 1993! BJJ needs to retire to the seniors circuit. Sak burst the BJJ/GJJ whatever u call it's bubble so long ago it's like those old American Kung Fu and Karate system myths now.
Sak would do the same thing, patently nullify the embarrassing double legs the Gracies seem to be only capable of(Even though they claim to be taught by a Kano Sensei trained KJJ master who knew how to throw) Rickson would scoot around on in a speedo on his butt trying to chase him down...OMG, just spit up my coffee laughing at that image...Sak would kick the piss out of his legs. Rickson would beg him to come down on the matt cause in the end that's all the Gracies had going for them. If it hadn't been for the 3rd rate opponents(Name me 3 near top level Judo or Olympic level wristler opponents they sparred and filmed in those first 5 years), and the ego's they took with them against the Gracie's BJJ would be a curious addition to the wide variety of MA's to train.
16 years ago Sak proved that BJJ/GJJ is an embarrassingly incomplete system and as every lineage art understands has only sport dependent effectiveness.
Next time a guy wins a title in the ufc with a submission I hope you come back to this post and still try to convince yourself of how "outdated" bjj is.
The entire gracie family is tough. They aren't the best athletes and yet they can hang with elite athletes because if their system of fighting.
It is the only marital art that gives the weaker, less athletic opponent a chance to win against the bigger and stronger guy.
If you don't see all of this though then you are a troll. You also clearly don't train and are just talking out of your ass. Pop in to a bjj gym with that Internet tough guy opinion of bjj though. Please do, and see what happens.
Next time a guy wins a title in the ufc with a submission I hope you come back to this post and still try to convince yourself of how "outdated" bjj is.
The entire gracie family is tough. They aren't the best athletes and yet they can hang with elite athletes because if their system of fighting.
It is the only marital art that gives the weaker, less athletic opponent a chance to win against the bigger and stronger guy.
If you don't see all of this though then you are a troll. You also clearly don't train and are just talking out of your ass. Pop in to a bjj gym with that Internet tough guy opinion of bjj though. Please do, and see what happens.
Gracies were juicing the whole time! Royce got popped after the second Sak fight that they had 2 modify the rules so much 2 even win pissing hot, LOL!
Hey, 1993's calling they want their "Best MA" claim back!
Better yet let the BJJ guy challenge on concrete, Think about why every "challenge" starts with walking into a padded floor space 4 BJJ. If it was up 2 me MMA wouldn't have a matted floor. If u can't break fall u take the injuries then sad day 4 u! Kimura Sensei was willing to Randuri on a tile floor cause all of the Kodokan Uchideshi trained break falling on concrete or wooden floors as well as Tatami. Helio pussied out on that cause they couldn't handle the true scope of Kano Jujutsu. As I said any competent Judoka or Olympic wrestler will nullify BJJ's incompetent takedown game. It's been proven for the last 23 years over and over. Christ Royce scooted around on his ass with his legs spread wide like a beat dog for 90min against Sakuraba! And Sak went on to another fight that night!
BJJ has some great qualities of being safe enough in it's 2 dimensional scope to let guys go "full power" and train real resistance, but u have 2 get the guy 2 the ground first and then stop them from doing was Sak did, disenge and keep distance that then makes BJJ pointless.
It would b pointless for me to challenge because I just won't play their game, LOL! Of course if I let my ego get in the way and engaged on the ground they train that shit all the time and would sub me. If it was outside on pavement they'd have to really throw me to get me to the ground before I established distance. U r only a sucker if u play you're opponents game, and BJJ depends on that for legitimacy, LOL!
Looks like u r the dude that doesn't/hasn't trained or at best has taken some WB classes and never seriously learned other complementary arts, LOL!
Next time a guy wins a title in the ufc with a submission I hope you come back to this post and still try to convince yourself of how "outdated" bjj is.
The entire gracie family is tough. They aren't the best athletes and yet they can hang with elite athletes because if their system of fighting.
It is the only marital art that gives the weaker, less athletic opponent a chance to win against the bigger and stronger guy.
If you don't see all of this though then you are a troll. You also clearly don't train and are just talking out of your ass. Pop in to a bjj gym with that Internet tough guy opinion of bjj though. Please do, and see what happens.
Gracies were juicing the whole time! Royce got popped after the second Sak fight that they had 2 modify the rules so much 2 even win pissing hot, LOL!
Hey, 1993's calling they want their "Best MA" claim back!
Better yet let the BJJ guy challenge on concrete, Think about why every "challenge" starts with walking into a padded floor space 4 BJJ. If it was up 2 me MMA wouldn't have a matted floor. If u can't break fall u take the injuries then sad day 4 u! Kimura Sensei was willing to Randuri on a tile floor cause all of the Kodokan Uchideshi trained break falling on concrete or wooden floors as well as Tatami. Helio pussied out on that cause they couldn't handle the true scope of Kano Jujutsu. As I said any competent Judoka or Olympic wrestler will nullify BJJ's incompetent takedown game. It's been proven for the last 23 years over and over. Christ Royce scooted around on his ass with his legs spread wide like a beat dog for 90min against Sakuraba! And Sak went on to another fight that night!
BJJ has some great qualities of being safe enough in it's 2 dimensional scope to let guys go "full power" and train real resistance, but u have 2 get the guy 2 the ground first and then stop them from doing was Sak did, disenge and keep distance that then makes BJJ pointless.
It would b pointless for me to challenge because I just won't play their game, LOL! Of course if I let my ego get in the way and engaged on the ground they train that shit all the time and would sub me. If it was outside on pavement they'd have to really throw me to get me to the ground before I established distance. U r only a sucker if u play you're opponents game, and BJJ depends on that for legitimacy, LOL!
Looks like u r the dude that doesn't/hasn't trained or at best has taken some WB classes and never seriously learned other complementary arts, LOL!
Lmao at you thinking bjj has never been used outside before.
I'd suggest a quick you tube search should solve that for you.
What is your great martial art that you study that is deadly in real life situations? Probably some bullshit Kombat ki ridiculousness.
The marital arts pre ufc 1 called and they welcome you into their way of thinking. Lol.
Oh btw there is video evidence of Gracies beating collegiate and even Olympic level wrestlers. I suggest checking out Royce vs Severn. Severn was an Olympic team alternate. They have also beat high level judokas, Karate guys, boxers and street fighters.
I'd hate to let facts get in the way of your stupidity though. You let me know of another martial art that allows the weaker, less athletic guy beat the stronger, more athletic guy. Keep looking for it.
While you are doing that, I'll compile a list of every single time that jiu jitsu has been used to win a major mma championship. You know...because jiu jitsu doesn't work and all lmfao!!
Rickson is a legend for sure but more people view him as a myth than an actual fighter. I don't mean that as in he wasn't a fighter. I mean his brief MMA career really didn't tell us much. The stories you hear are pretty incredible, however much of them is true that is.
Big time Heeekson fan, it would be a tough fight to call.
The smart money is on Sakuraba simply because we have seen his reactions against world-class competition...
Talented hands - Vitor - Win
Talented kickboxing - Mirko - Loss
Well-Rounded - Wanderlei - Loss
Wrestling - Rampage - Win
BJJ - Allen Goes, Renzo and the much smaller Royler - D-W-W
There is nothing Heeekson is going to do to Sakuraba that he hasn't become familiar with. It does not matter if every person on earth says that rolling with the great Heeekson is a completely different thing entirely. I'm sure if people didn't own iPhone's or digital video cameras, people would be celebrating the ungodly grappling skill of Marcelo Garcia, a small man who slaughters big dudes in pure grappling matches. Without video, we tend to deify people from the past, it's human nature. Think about it, MG destroys people in the modern era, if we're talking about "Having rolled with someone...."
It took Saku a long time to win against Royce since Royce bragged about how willing he was to fight all night for hours on end, so Saku was content to take his time, almost enjoying the process to prove that he too has no problem with dragging the fight out.
There is no proof Heeekson can take down a grappler of Saku's caliber, and even if the fight went to the ground, Saku is crafty enough not to fall for BJJ set-ups that nobody knew when Heeekson fought in the 1980's all the way through the mid 1990's. Allen Goes and Renzo are good enough to have tested Saku's submission defense, this combined with Saku's better-than-Gracie-striking ability and collegiate TDD, I just don't see Heeekson really threatening Saku. You can't beat someone you can't take down or keep down.
This has always been my favorite fantasy matchup. Rickson to me might be the best submission grappler p4p ever, Saku is up there in MMA's greatest grapplers. But Rickson doesn't have a GI in this fight and is facing a well rounded fighter who will do a lot more than just go to the matt with him, and Saku might have a mental edge due to being the Gracie killer.
6 out 8 of UFC champs don't need BB's in BJJ. Most of the Blue Belt techniques that win MMA fights r found in @ least 3 other styles. Judo, Sambo and Catch Wrestling.
Lmao at you thinking bjj has never been used outside before.
I'd suggest a quick you tube search should solve that for you.
What is your great martial art that you study that is deadly in real life situations? Probably some bullshit Kombat ki ridiculousness.
The marital arts pre ufc 1 called and they welcome you into their way of thinking. Lol.
Oh btw there is video evidence of Gracies beating collegiate and even Olympic level wrestlers. I suggest checking out Royce vs Severn. Severn was an Olympic team alternate. They have also beat high level judokas, Karate guys, boxers and street fighters.
I'd hate to let facts get in the way of your stupidity though. You let me know of another martial art that allows the weaker, less athletic guy beat the stronger, more athletic guy. Keep looking for it.
While you are doing that, I'll compile a list of every single time that jiu jitsu has been used to win a major mma championship. You know...because jiu jitsu doesn't work and all lmfao!!
LOL all u can come up with is Dan Severn? R u kidding? Like we haven't seen that 20 million times?
Hello, 1994 UFC 2 is calling it wants it's 58 year old wrestler back, OMFG, LOL!...Though he was what 35 in '94, LOL!
Jesus, it's pathetic that all u can come up with is 20 year old examples to base your claim. I'm saying that Sak beat the crap out of GJJ and showed it's 1 dimensional effectiveness, and your panties r getting all bunched up, LOL!
This is what happens when u try MMA like kicks and then go to the ground in the real world @ :56. U r just begging to get kicked in the head that's illegal in MMA matches. Once again, that's the real world where there r no rules son, not the padded cushy gym floors of your fantasies.
I say Sakuraba. The Rickson's legend has grown so out of proportion, especially with so little video evidence, it makes people think it was just a promotional gig by Gracies. From the few videos I saw of Rickson he has the same weird leg stomp Royce used to do. Didn't see anything that would make me believe he was head and shoulders above the competition.
LOL all u can come up with is Dan Severn? R u kidding? Like we haven't seen that 20 million times?
Hello, 1994 UFC 2 is calling it wants it's 58 year old wrestler back, OMFG, LOL!...Though he was what 35 in '94, LOL!
Jesus, it's pathetic that all u can come up with is 20 year old examples to base your claim. I'm saying that Sak beat the crap out of GJJ and showed it's 1 dimensional effectiveness, and your panties r getting all bunched up, LOL!
This is what happens when u try MMA like kicks and then go to the ground in the real world @ :56. U r just begging to get kicked in the head that's illegal in MMA matches. Once again, that's the real world where there r no rules son, not the padded cushy gym floors of your fantasies.
Lmao so you go from arguing against bjj being effective and then go to mma type kicks. Tell me, how many street fights did the Gracies lose? How many street fights have high level mma fighters lost?
If you think a ufc fighter is going to lose a street fight to some typical street fighter you are delusional. It's clear you don't understand jiu jitsu though. You act like all they know how to do is pull guard lol. Part of jiu jitsu is learning takedowns and throws. It's part of every jiu jitsu curriculum in the world.
Here you go though, since you want to discredit royce beating Severn even though Severn was a Olympic level wrestler and outweighed royce by 50 lbs....Anderson Silva used jiu jitsu to beat chael sonnen.....high level wrestler.
Werdum beat Cain Velasquez with jiu jitsu. Cain was an ncaa champion level wrestler.
Frank Mir beat Brock lesnar with jiu jitsu...ncaa champion level wrestler.
Werdum beat Fedor who was a Sambo champion with jiu jitsu.
Nogueira beat Mark Coleman and Dan Henderson with jiu jitsu. Both guys were at very high levels of wrestling. He used jiu jitsu to sweep Randy couture in their fight in which he ended up winning.
Hell, Matt Hughes used jiu jitsu to beat royce gracie.
Please don't make me keep going. Your analysis that mma or jiu jitsu don't work in street fights is downright silly. You know it's silly, everyone at your McDojo knows it's silly.
Jiu jitsu is the best form of combat for the smaller , less athletic fighter to stand a chance against the superior athlete or bigger and stronger person. I'm still waiting for you to give me an example of another discipline that can say that. Wrestling and boxing and kickboxing are all awesome as well, but you are not a complete fighter these days without those things.
Btw I have nothing against sakuraba. He is one of my favorites of all time. He helped show the world how to defeat the Gracies back when nobody else had really done it in decades (aside from ken shamrock in the 2nd fight with royce) but to say Saku somehow discredited jiu jitsu is fuckin stupid. All you have to do is look at the current roster...EVERYONE in the ufc knows jiu jitsu at a high level because it is absolutely necessary to know. If you refuse to believe that, then I guarantee you don't know how to fight. Period.
No such thing as "Pride rules" when a Gracie gets in the ring.....They want no time limit, Gi allowed, No restanding for stalling, No yellow cards....Did I leave anything out?
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
